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Globalists: how do we respond to resurgent nationalism?

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The Texan Union
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Postby The Texan Union » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:52 pm

Kerbodine wrote:The youngest generation shows some very interesting trends, many of which are non-globalist.

;)

(Let's be honest though, most of us started out just watching feminists get pwned for the lols. I'm not sure how that turned into me being an advocate for political change.)

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Saint-Thor
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Postby Saint-Thor » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Montchevre wrote:
Saint-Thor wrote:That's a way to see it, I agree. Imho, globalization is a destroyer of culture. It tends to uniformize towards one culture, one language, one ideology (neoliberalism mostly) and one set of values. Nationalism, as in civic nationalism, is a rampart against various forms of imperialism. Some people here are afraid of nationalism because they only see it as a full Sieg Heil incubator. The things is, nationalism can produce the best and the worst. Ghandi was a nationalist, Mandela too. I'm pretty sure those two are not too fond of goose step. The Tibetan people resisting the Chinese imperialism are nationalists as well. The First nations of Canada also have a strong nationalist sentiment.

Nationalism opposes imperialism? On the defender's side, yes. But nationalism also inspires a nation to embark on campaigns of imperialism as well, for the glory of the nation! Nationalism is a very potent force, and when it becomes prevalent, things often get messy. All we need is for resurgent nationalism in Russia, China, or the US to collide, and then... well, we know. The thing is though, that unlike in WWI and WWII, this time is our last time. We would annihilate the entire northern hemisphere. The only hope for permanent peace (and therefore the avoidance or nuclear catastrophe) is through eventual federalization with post-nationalism as the guiding principle. Otherwise, our nation states will eventually become inflamed and decide that dying is worth it if it means killing the other. I've already heard people say things like that, and that scares me. I think people forget how good a thing peace is.

That's quite an alarmist point of view. Perhaps you need to define your own version of nationalism because I don't see what kind of nationalism would cause that except maybe the one we had more than 70 years ago in Germany. Anyway who would conduct that " post-nationalist federalization"? The People? A Council of sages? Goldman Sachs?

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:22 pm

Trust in cyclicality. Or rather the inevitable backlashes to Trump and his ilk.
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Marydale
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Postby Marydale » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:34 pm

You can't :^)

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Seraven
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Postby Seraven » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:02 am

The Lone Alliance wrote:The problem is that the symbol of globalism isn't nice happy people singing "It's a small world after all" but multinational corporations making everyone their bitch.

There's also the false image that all cultures and people can get along with one another.


Guess we should totally ignore America's hispanic culture, asian culture, even african culture, right?
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An excellent example of why allowing unrestricted immigration of people with a very different culture might not be the best idea ever :P

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:06 am

Ignore them.

No, really. Don't entertain their delusions. They imagine themselves on the winning side for the moment. Let them celebrate. Let them show the public a taste of what they actually want to do. And let the public recoil from the actual consequences of a less-connected less-free world.
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Frank Zipper
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Postby Frank Zipper » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:26 am

The nationalists are going to end up taking us into a world war, which when it is over will lead to a resurgence of globalist thinking to prevent it happening again.
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Kash Island
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Postby Kash Island » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:30 am

I consider myself a nationalist, but I would be a globalist if the world ran off a system similar to the U.S constitution, problem is that will never happen.
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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:31 am

Frank Zipper wrote:The nationalists are going to end up taking us into a world war, which when it is over will lead to a resurgence of globalist thinking to prevent it happening again.


World War seems rather a high bar for discrediting nationalism. Would you say the same even if something on that level did not occur?
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Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
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Republic of the Cristo
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:34 am

Frank Zipper wrote:The nationalists are going to end up taking us into a world war, which when it is over will lead to a resurgence of globalist thinking to prevent it happening again.


Yeah because globalists are certainly leading us towards world peace -

said no one from Africa, Asia, or the Middle East ever...
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Frank Zipper
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Postby Frank Zipper » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:39 am

Valaran wrote:
Frank Zipper wrote:The nationalists are going to end up taking us into a world war, which when it is over will lead to a resurgence of globalist thinking to prevent it happening again.


World War seems rather a high bar for discrediting nationalism. Would you say the same even if something on that level did not occur?


I just think it is a process. Nationalism and globalism will always cycle with one another. By knocking down globalist structures, but leading to more conflict, nationalism is helping to build more durable globalist structures. Like a predator improving the fitness of the prey species.
Put this in your signature if you are easily led.

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Minzerland II
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Postby Minzerland II » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:41 am

Seraven wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:The problem is that the symbol of globalism isn't nice happy people singing "It's a small world after all" but multinational corporations making everyone their bitch.

There's also the false image that all cultures and people can get along with one another.


Guess we should totally ignore America's hispanic culture, asian culture, even african culture, right?

You realise they're tearing one another apart, right? America is tearing itself apart.
Conserative Morality wrote:Ignore them.

No, really. Don't entertain their delusions. They imagine themselves on the winning side for the moment. Let them celebrate. Let them show the public a taste of what they actually want to do. And let the public recoil from the actual consequences of a less-connected less-free world.

That is quite the prediction.
Last edited by Minzerland II on Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dai Heiwa
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Postby Dai Heiwa » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:45 am

Weaponize it for the benefit of the unified global ruling elite. Democratic globalism is coming to an end.
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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:49 am

Frank Zipper wrote:
Valaran wrote:
World War seems rather a high bar for discrediting nationalism. Would you say the same even if something on that level did not occur?


I just think it is a process. Nationalism and globalism will always cycle with one another. By knocking down globalist structures, but leading to more conflict, nationalism is helping to build more durable globalist structures. Like a predator improving the fitness of the prey species.


Interesting. I'm not completely convinced that globalism is getting refined each time. One may point to the improvements from pre-WWI to post-WWI to post WWII as evidence of increasing 'fitness', but I think at each stage this is partially undermined by recurring mistakes made by globalists. So, the net improvement with each cycle is only partial, and not always permanent.
Last edited by Valaran on Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I used to run an alliance, and a region. Not that it matters now.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:50 am

Minzerland II wrote:That is quite the prediction.

Anti-globalism necessarily includes measures that restrict the freedom of individuals (in favor of the supposed welfare of nation-states) and is explicitly against a more connected world. It's not a prediction. It's a statement of the basic goals of anti-globalist movements.
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Republic of the Cristo
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:53 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:That is quite the prediction.

Anti-globalism necessarily includes measures that restrict the freedom of individuals (in favor of the supposed welfare of nation-states) and is explicitly against a more connected world. It's not a prediction. It's a statement of the basic goals of anti-globalist movements.


As opposed to the economic restrictions placed on individuals in Globalist movements?
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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:56 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:That is quite the prediction.

Anti-globalism necessarily includes measures that restrict the freedom of individuals (in favor of the supposed welfare of nation-states) and is explicitly against a more connected world. It's not a prediction. It's a statement of the basic goals of anti-globalist movements.


>The UN supports freeze speech or anywhere else other than America

Really it's disappointing globally on the freedom front. Trade goods but not retarded ideas should be the goal. Alas we aren't so lucky.
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Frank Zipper
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Postby Frank Zipper » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:59 am

Valaran wrote:
Frank Zipper wrote:
I just think it is a process. Nationalism and globalism will always cycle with one another. By knocking down globalist structures, but leading to more conflict, nationalism is helping to build more durable globalist structures. Like a predator improving the fitness of the prey species.


Interesting. I'm not completely convinced that globalism is getting refined each time. One may point to the improvements from pre-WWI to post-WWI to post WWII as evidence of increasing 'fitness', but I think at each stage this is partially undermined by recurring mistakes made by globalists. So, the net improvement with each cycle is only partial, and not always permanent.


I think there is a lot of noise in the system, so it not that clean cut, but it this is my take on what happens.
Put this in your signature if you are easily led.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:02 am

Republic of the Cristo wrote:As opposed to the economic restrictions placed on individuals in Globalist movements?

Globalism is one aspect of many movements which may include more or less freedom. It is not a guarantee of an ideology's worth.

Not all globalist movements are right, but all anti-globalist movements are at least partially wrong.
The East Marches wrote:>The UN supports freeze speech or anywhere else other than America

Really it's disappointing globally on the freedom front. Trade goods but not retarded ideas should be the goal. Alas we aren't so lucky.

>> the UN
>> representative of globalism

get with GlobalCorp m80
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Republic of the Cristo
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:04 am

The East Marches wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Anti-globalism necessarily includes measures that restrict the freedom of individuals (in favor of the supposed welfare of nation-states) and is explicitly against a more connected world. It's not a prediction. It's a statement of the basic goals of anti-globalist movements.


>The UN supports freeze speech or anywhere else other than America

Really it's disappointing globally on the freedom front. Trade goods but not retarded ideas should be the goal. Alas we aren't so lucky.


I agree. I am for free trade but not western regressivism. Sadly, with one often comes the other. Thus, until free trade can be separated from liberalism, I will continue in my stance
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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:04 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Republic of the Cristo wrote:As opposed to the economic restrictions placed on individuals in Globalist movements?

Globalism is one aspect of many movements which may include more or less freedom. It is not a guarantee of an ideology's worth.

Not all globalist movements are right, but all anti-globalist movements are at least partially wrong.
The East Marches wrote:>The UN supports freeze speech or anywhere else other than America

Really it's disappointing globally on the freedom front. Trade goods but not retarded ideas should be the goal. Alas we aren't so lucky.

>> the UN
>> representative of globalism

get with GlobalCorp m80


>muh internationshulnal law
>muh human rights
>RIP your rights

M8, if it were just good business, people wouldn't madfag so much. It has strings attached too.
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Republic of the Cristo
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Postby Republic of the Cristo » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:05 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Republic of the Cristo wrote:As opposed to the economic restrictions placed on individuals in Globalist movements?

Globalism is one aspect of many movements which may include more or less freedom. It is not a guarantee of an ideology's worth.

Not all globalist movements are right, but all anti-globalist movements are at least partially wrong.
The East Marches wrote:>The UN supports freeze speech or anywhere else other than America

Really it's disappointing globally on the freedom front. Trade goods but not retarded ideas should be the goal. Alas we aren't so lucky.

>> the UN
>> representative of globalism

get with GlobalCorp m80


Wrong according to what?
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Stormwrath
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Postby Stormwrath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:06 am

Seraven wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:The problem is that the symbol of globalism isn't nice happy people singing "It's a small world after all" but multinational corporations making everyone their bitch.

There's also the false image that all cultures and people can get along with one another.


Guess we should totally ignore America's hispanic culture, asian culture, even african culture, right?

Yeah, no. Just because you live in a melting pot doesn't mean everyone gets along. Hell, with the identity politics prevalent in the US, I'd say the melting pot has reached its limits.

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Yugoslav Memes
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Postby Yugoslav Memes » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:06 am

Humans aren't that good enough to unify as an entire species yet; as it stands, the nation is still the most consolidated and stable interest group that has formed in human history so far and not an "accident".
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:06 am

The East Marches wrote:>muh internationshulnal law
>muh human rights

I believe you've mentioned how those are worthless concepts disregarded by every major world player who can get away with it. =^)
>RIP your rights

M8, if it were just good business, people wouldn't madfag so much. It has strings attached too.

If it were just good business, people would still madfag. And besides, isn't that the nature of trade? They who have something of more worth to offer have more leverage to dictate the terms of the exchange.
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