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Transgender Discussion Thread III

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:40 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:Went around with a snow blower and realized something about HRT, it's going to be a very difficult task going forward.


Are those related facts, or just incidental?
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:52 pm

Philjia wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:Went around with a snow blower and realized something about HRT, it's going to be a very difficult task going forward.


Are those related facts, or just incidental?

HRT would have strength reducing aspects on trans women. So the issues are related to each as even with pre-HRT status, I'm having issues.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:44 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Philjia wrote:
Are those related facts, or just incidental?

HRT would have strength reducing aspects on trans women. So the issues are related to each as even with pre-HRT status, I'm having issues.

Ah crap, that's gonna screw with my workout program isn't it?
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:09 pm

The main thing I've noticed from hrt isn't strength related, but heat tolerance related. Men and women have different ways the body keeps heat, and I'm learning, in the freezing temperatures of winter here, that my heat tolerance is nowhere near where it was before, so now I'm almost always cold unless I'm in temperatures I previously would have found too warm.
Last edited by Noraika on Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:51 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:HRT would have strength reducing aspects on trans women. So the issues are related to each as even with pre-HRT status, I'm having issues.

Ah crap, that's gonna screw with my workout program isn't it?

Not exactly, if one works out the stamina will be kept, but the physical strength unless comparable to cis women will likely decline.
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:53 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Ah crap, that's gonna screw with my workout program isn't it?

Not exactly, if one works out the stamina will be kept, but the physical strength unless comparable to cis women will likely decline.

It is possible to maintain that strength, but you'd have to do what a cis-girl does to get there and maintain it. You can be just as strong, but you'll just have less muscle mass to work with over time.
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Socialist Tera
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Postby Socialist Tera » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:28 pm

I am feeling more and more helpless when it comes to transitioning. I mean I am having laser treatment and without blockers nothing is happening. I have to see a psychologist before I get another chance to transition.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:32 pm

Noraika wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:Not exactly, if one works out the stamina will be kept, but the physical strength unless comparable to cis women will likely decline.

It is possible to maintain that strength, but you'd have to do what a cis-girl does to get there and maintain it. You can be just as strong, but you'll just have less muscle mass to work with over time.

The possibility of a trans woman having more strength pre-HRT than would normally be achieved by a cis woman of similar height and weight is fairly likely. Technique matters more with less muscle mass, though.
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United Socialist Republic of Antarctica
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Postby United Socialist Republic of Antarctica » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:02 am

So I am helping out a trans guy at my school who's parents aren't supportive. Is it possible to get him testosterone without his parents approval or will he have to wait until he's 18?

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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:53 pm

United Socialist Republic of Antarctica wrote:So I am helping out a trans guy at my school who's parents aren't supportive. Is it possible to get him testosterone without his parents approval or will he have to wait until he's 18?

Given my knowledge, he'd likely need to wait.
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:51 pm

My parents definitely seem more receptive, but they are still not supportive. They seem to be very deeply in mourning, and still think that - while they are happy for my getting better and want to stay in contact, and actually acknowledge I was gender dysphoric now - there had to be another way to get the same results without transitioning, which they still think is dangerous and will end with me regretting it and taking my life (which is what they have been constantly told will happen).

Overall, better, but definitely not good yet. :)
Last edited by Noraika on Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:57 pm

Noraika wrote:My parents definitely seem more receptive, but they are still not supportive. They seem to be very deeply in mourning, and still think that - while they are happy for my getting better and want to stay in contact, and actually acknowledge I was gender dysphoric now - there had to be another way to get the same results without transitioning, which they still think is dangerous and will end with me regretting it and taking my life (which is what they have been constantly told will happen).

Overall, better, but definitely not good yet. :)

It will take time. There's multiple stages of mourning.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:37 pm

Socialist Tera wrote:I am feeling more and more helpless when it comes to transitioning. I mean I am having laser treatment and without blockers nothing is happening. I have to see a psychologist before I get another chance to transition.

You need the hormones if you want some headway as the male hormones are likely countering your laser.
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Nature-Spirits
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Postby Nature-Spirits » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:27 pm

Aphryss wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:Ehh, worse than having blood drawn (mostly because it's happening over and over again interminably), but not quite as bad as having dental work done with insufficient anaesthetic. So probably 5-7 ish, I'd say.

Of course, she told me we might try a slightly higher setting next appointment, so yay?

Also I wore a scarf to work today (I actually really love scarves and I have a huge collection, but I haven't been wearing them a whole lot lately since my workplace is usually sweltering), because the underside of my jaw and my neck are red and a bit swollen and I can't shave properly like this, and my laser lady told me to avoid wearing makeup on the lasered area for a few days. Like, the hairs are dead and all, but while they get pushed out I'm just going to have perpetual scruff, it seems. Hopefully it looks better in a few days.


Ugh, I hate when that kind of thing happens, because I feel so conflicted. It's a really nice gesture, and it's not great to look a gift horse in the mouth, but having your deadname recorded on that sort of thing is just an awful feeling.

So, I have no idea, basically. Maybe keep it for now and figure out what to do with it in a couple of years?

It's hard to estimate how much it hurts because you get used to it; which is not to say it hurts less as it goes on, but it has a way of recalibrating your pain threshhold. Plus, y'know, in a way it doesn't really matter how much it hurts, because that's not really relevant to the outcome. Success is the only metric. You're right about the repeated duration of it being the worst part, though - if it were just once it wouldn't be anything notable at all, really.

My personal Litany Against Pain is a kind of mashup of two of Alpha Centauri's secret projects - the Ascetic Virtues and the Virtual World. Which are not exactly fit for purpose, because Shen-Ji Yang is a monster who doesn't care about individual suffering, but they seem to work for me.

Unfortunately in my experience the fried hairs are stiffer and more brittle, which in practice means darker, more pronounced stubble for a week or two while they're pushing out. The swelling should go down in a day or two. My next session is on the nineteenth, which unfortunately means stubble for Christmas. :(

Well, I am looking forward to my pain threshold going up in that department, then. I do agree that the pain doesn't really matter in the long run, too -- I'm more than willing to pay hundreds of dollars and undergo intense pain, as long as I get the outcome I want.

Ha, you're such a nerd. :lol: Love it.

Yeah, I've found that they're a bit darker, too. I'm pretty sure my growth rate is slower now, though -- at least for the fried hairs. Right now it's been about two days since I last shaved (I shaved yesterday morning or the previous evening, I think, and had today off work), and my stubble feels a bit shorter than it should be at this stage.

Also, I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I am so glad I'm undergoing this with a masc presentation, and I totally understand now why a trans woman I know told me to get laser done before HRT or anything. I would not be comfortable at all with the redness and scruff in a femme presentation. Still not loving it, but I find it acceptable given the outcome.

The Serbian Empire wrote:Went around with a snow blower and realized something about HRT, it's going to be a very difficult task going forward.

#justsnowblowerthoughts :lol:

Noraika wrote:The main thing I've noticed from hrt isn't strength related, but heat tolerance related. Men and women have different ways the body keeps heat, and I'm learning, in the freezing temperatures of winter here, that my heat tolerance is nowhere near where it was before, so now I'm almost always cold unless I'm in temperatures I previously would have found too warm.

Really? I've never heard that before; it's an interesting observation.

United Socialist Republic of Antarctica wrote:So I am helping out a trans guy at my school who's parents aren't supportive. Is it possible to get him testosterone without his parents approval or will he have to wait until he's 18?

Probably not through legal channels, no. Waiting until 18 is probably the best option. Which is easier said than done, but it can be done.

I don't endorse illegal channels to HRT, especially since those hormones aren't always safe (they may have been cut with something else) and I don't know anything about them, but I do know that some people have accessed hormones via that route.

Noraika wrote:My parents definitely seem more receptive, but they are still not supportive. They seem to be very deeply in mourning, and still think that - while they are happy for my getting better and want to stay in contact, and actually acknowledge I was gender dysphoric now - there had to be another way to get the same results without transitioning, which they still think is dangerous and will end with me regretting it and taking my life (which is what they have been constantly told will happen).

Overall, better, but definitely not good yet. :)

Well then, here's to further improvement! :)
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:59 pm

Nature-Spirits wrote:
Noraika wrote:The main thing I've noticed from hrt isn't strength related, but heat tolerance related. Men and women have different ways the body keeps heat, and I'm learning, in the freezing temperatures of winter here, that my heat tolerance is nowhere near where it was before, so now I'm almost always cold unless I'm in temperatures I previously would have found too warm.

Really? I've never heard that before; it's an interesting observation.

Noraika wrote:My parents definitely seem more receptive, but they are still not supportive. They seem to be very deeply in mourning, and still think that - while they are happy for my getting better and want to stay in contact, and actually acknowledge I was gender dysphoric now - there had to be another way to get the same results without transitioning, which they still think is dangerous and will end with me regretting it and taking my life (which is what they have been constantly told will happen).

Overall, better, but definitely not good yet. :)

Well then, here's to further improvement! :)

Yep! If I recall correctly it has to do with the fact that women's bodies concentrate more heat in their torso, and their skin is generally thinner, so the rest of our body lacks the same degree of insulation. I went from any weather above 70F being sweaty, to any weather under 70F being cold, and in need of a light jacket. Its now been under 20F here, and I've been freezing, while before I wouldn't be that bad.

Thank you! My parents are stubborn in saying that there must've been another way, and in thinking transitioning will lead me to suicide. They refuse to listen to any disagreeing position, so now I'm not sure where to go from here...
Last edited by Noraika on Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:14 am

Noraika wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:
Really? I've never heard that before; it's an interesting observation.


Well then, here's to further improvement! :)

Yep! If I recall correctly it has to do with the fact that women's bodies concentrate more heat in their torso, and their skin is generally thinner, so the rest of our body lacks the same degree of insulation. I went from any weather above 70F being sweaty, to any weather under 70F being cold, and in need of a light jacket. Its now been under 20F here, and I've been freezing, while before I wouldn't be that bad.

Thank you! My parents are stubborn in saying that there must've been another way, and in thinking transitioning will lead me to suicide. They refuse to listen to any disagreeing position, so now I'm not sure where to go from here...

Men also have more heat producing muscle mass than women.
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Postby Ashmoria » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:23 am

Noraika wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:
Really? I've never heard that before; it's an interesting observation.


Well then, here's to further improvement! :)

Yep! If I recall correctly it has to do with the fact that women's bodies concentrate more heat in their torso, and their skin is generally thinner, so the rest of our body lacks the same degree of insulation. I went from any weather above 70F being sweaty, to any weather under 70F being cold, and in need of a light jacket. Its now been under 20F here, and I've been freezing, while before I wouldn't be that bad.

Thank you! My parents are stubborn in saying that there must've been another way, and in thinking transitioning will lead me to suicide. They refuse to listen to any disagreeing position, so now I'm not sure where to go from here...


give them time. it is harder than seems rational to accept that your child is a different gender than you thought and that the correction requires major surgery. as they see you happier and not becoming suicidally depressed they will fear it all less.

maybe you can find them some resources like a support group, talking to your doctor about their fears, and literature that focuses on real life stories.
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Postby Jumalariik » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:28 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Noraika wrote:Yep! If I recall correctly it has to do with the fact that women's bodies concentrate more heat in their torso, and their skin is generally thinner, so the rest of our body lacks the same degree of insulation. I went from any weather above 70F being sweaty, to any weather under 70F being cold, and in need of a light jacket. Its now been under 20F here, and I've been freezing, while before I wouldn't be that bad.

Thank you! My parents are stubborn in saying that there must've been another way, and in thinking transitioning will lead me to suicide. They refuse to listen to any disagreeing position, so now I'm not sure where to go from here...

Men also have more heat producing muscle mass than women.

No! Man is a gender construct, you mean to say males have more heat producing muscle mass than females.
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Postby Philjia » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:39 am

Jumalariik wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:Men also have more heat producing muscle mass than women.

No! Man is a gender construct, you mean to say males have more heat producing muscle mass than females.


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Postby Jumalariik » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:55 am

Philjia wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:No! Man is a gender construct, you mean to say males have more heat producing muscle mass than females.


Gender is not the same thing as sex.

RIGHT!

So when you talk about a man having physical characteristics you're wrong because man is a social construct. A man can look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlett_ ... 3_(cropped).JPG

Now, a male is where the physical concerns exist. Just saying that TSE was not using gender theory correctly.
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:04 am

Jumalariik wrote:
Philjia wrote:
Gender is not the same thing as sex.

RIGHT!

So when you talk about a man having physical characteristics you're wrong because man is a social construct. A man can look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlett_ ... 3_(cropped).JPG

Now, a male is where the physical concerns exist. Just saying that TSE was not using gender theory correctly.

At las, I'm not exactly known for my knowledge of gender theory.
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Postby Jumalariik » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:10 am

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:RIGHT!

So when you talk about a man having physical characteristics you're wrong because man is a social construct. A man can look like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlett_ ... 3_(cropped).JPG

Now, a male is where the physical concerns exist. Just saying that TSE was not using gender theory correctly.

At las, I'm not exactly known for my knowledge of gender theory.

lol neither am I

just joshing yah

But seriously, if even people who believe in gender theory use the words wrong according to their definitions it suggests a problem.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:19 am

Jumalariik wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:At las, I'm not exactly known for my knowledge of gender theory.

lol neither am I

just joshing yah

But seriously, if even people who believe in gender theory use the words wrong according to their definitions it suggests a problem.


We're all part of the gender theory hive. If somebody misspeaks it's gotta be something that came from the gender queen. Now the whole of gender has been disproved, RIP, what do?
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Ex-Nation

Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:20 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:lol neither am I

just joshing yah

But seriously, if even people who believe in gender theory use the words wrong according to their definitions it suggests a problem.


We're all part of the gender theory hive. If somebody misspeaks it's gotta be something that came from the gender queen. Now the whole of gender has been disproved, RIP, what do?

Invade the gender theory hive and...uh...steal honey? :p
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Jumalariik
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Founded: Sep 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Jumalariik » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:24 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:lol neither am I

just joshing yah

But seriously, if even people who believe in gender theory use the words wrong according to their definitions it suggests a problem.


We're all part of the gender theory hive. If somebody misspeaks it's gotta be something that came from the gender queen. Now the whole of gender has been disproved, RIP, what do?

My point is that it kind of invalidates a theory about the meaning of the words man and male if even people who make a differentiation use them interchangeably, though I guess sarcasm without a purpose is more fun.
Last edited by Jumalariik on Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pray for a new spiritual crusade against the left!-Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium
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