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The Existence of God

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Does God exist?

Yes
199
36%
No
221
40%
Maybe
136
24%
 
Total votes : 556

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Sanctissima
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Ex-Nation

The Existence of God

Postby Sanctissima » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:10 pm

In particular, the Abrahamic God. I.e., this guy:

Image

He's worshiped by four different religions, of which there are hundreds of different denominations comprising roughly 4 billion people worldwide. Very influential guy.

Or is he?

The topic comes up fairly often, and will no doubt continue to be debated until the end of mankind, but what evidence is there for his existence? Is there any evidence at all for his existence?

Personally, I'd say no. There's nothing, not even a shred of evidence, to suggest that God exists. Sometimes Thomas Aquinas' Quinques Viae (or five reasons why God exists) get proposed, but they don't explain much of anything. In fact, they're extremely outdated arguments (from the 13th Century AD) that are very rudimentary and at best identify a need for some origin of the Universe, but not evidence for the existence of God. To put it very bluntly, the arguments are quite weak and give no evidence for the existence of something with a divine nature.

Aside from that, there isn't anything of any great substance that's been attempted over the course of millennia to actually prove or provide some form of evidence for the existence of God. Which to be frank, is quite damning to the entire position that God exists.

So, what are your thoughts? Do you believe God exists? Does anyone have any evidence to suggest he does?

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:13 pm

I recall one conversation on TV tropes about how if mortal humans saw god they would literally die. One user hearkened back to the incident in the Garden, and how humanity is unfit to perceive God (which borders on eldritch territory for some).
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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:21 pm

The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:I recall one conversation on TV tropes about how if mortal humans saw god they would literally die. One user hearkened back to the incident in the Garden, and how humanity is unfit to perceive God (which borders on eldritch territory for some).


Well, if that's the case, then the concept of the Trinity is wrong even from a theological standpoint. Because as I recall quite a few people saw Jesus, and spoke to him, and whatnot.

Unless him being in corporeal form somehow negates the whole dying by seeing him thing.

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Digital Planets
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Postby Digital Planets » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:24 pm

God exists. I met him in one of my LSD trips, but also because when some girl dressing skimpy says 'Only God can judge me', and you hear a booming voice in the air that says "YOU'RE A WHORE".
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Narintia
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Postby Narintia » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:26 pm

Digital Planets wrote:God exists. I met him in one of my LSD trips, but also because when some girl dressing skimpy says 'Only God can judge me', and you hear a booming voice in the air that says "YOU'RE A WHORE".

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Kyrinasaj
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Postby Kyrinasaj » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:26 pm

There is no certainty that there is a god, you can't prove his existence without resorting to faith or just ''believing in him'' and you can't disprove him either because then they will say the he exists beyond human knowledge or something similar.
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Digital Planets
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Postby Digital Planets » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:29 pm

Narintia wrote:
Digital Planets wrote:God exists. I met him in one of my LSD trips, but also because when some girl dressing skimpy says 'Only God can judge me', and you hear a booming voice in the air that says "YOU'RE A WHORE".

May I sig this?


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Federation of Allied States
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Postby Federation of Allied States » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:30 pm

I think of God as something that might exsist, as in something we might find in the future. Like the Large Quasar Group, a structure that scientists thought could never exsist, but they found it anyway.
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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:31 pm

Kyrinasaj wrote:There is no certainty that there is a god, you can't prove his existence without resorting to faith or just ''believing in him'' and you can't disprove him either because then they will say the he exists beyond human knowledge or something similar.


Eh, I think the lack of proof is proof in itself that there is no God.

Were there a single shred of evidence to suggest his existence, then things would be different, but given the total absence of it I think that's enough to tell us he doesn't exist.

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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:32 pm

The argument for God tends to be the allegory of the cave. There is no proof of God nor is there proof of there not being God. Nobody knows why existence is and nobody can fathom death. Therefor the concept of God shields us from those questions. I myself am Agnostic and the Miller urey expirament pretty much proves life can exist without God. Though I cannot fathom it I suspect death is nothingness. The explanation of existence remains totally unknown though.
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Avendonia
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Postby Avendonia » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:33 pm

God exists. Certainly not in the Abrahamic sense, but in a much more abstract sense. One can see that this universe is alive. God, if anything, is that life, that logic to the universe. God may not have created the universe in the biblical sense, but some could argue that the big bang, evolution, et cetera, were influenced by divine hand. Just my religious, if unaffiliated two cents.
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Federation of Allied States
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Postby Federation of Allied States » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:34 pm

Avendonia wrote:God exists. Certainly not in the Abrahamic sense, but in a much more abstract sense. One can see that this universe is alive. God, if anything, is that life, that logic to the universe. God may not have created the universe in the biblical sense, but some could argue that the big bang, evolution, et cetera, were influenced by divine hand. Just my religious, if unaffiliated two cents.

That's certainly a interesting way to look at it.
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Kyrinasaj
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Postby Kyrinasaj » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:34 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Kyrinasaj wrote:There is no certainty that there is a god, you can't prove his existence without resorting to faith or just ''believing in him'' and you can't disprove him either because then they will say the he exists beyond human knowledge or something similar.


Eh, I think the lack of proof is proof in itself that there is no God.

Were there a single shred of evidence to suggest his existence, then things would be different, but given the total absence of it I think that's enough to tell us he doesn't exist.

Well, Christians would come up with the argument that he exists in another reality, they go so far as calling that ''Heaven'' and go so far too suggest that only the worthy get in.

Then again how do you disprove God?

Lack of evidence doesn't mean that it's impossible to exist, while I highly doubt that it would exist.
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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:37 pm

Kyrinasaj wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Eh, I think the lack of proof is proof in itself that there is no God.

Were there a single shred of evidence to suggest his existence, then things would be different, but given the total absence of it I think that's enough to tell us he doesn't exist.

Well, Christians would come up with the argument that he exists in another reality, they go so far as calling that ''Heaven'' and go so far too suggest that only the worthy get in.

Then again how do you disprove God?

Lack of evidence doesn't mean that it's impossible to exist, while I highly doubt that it would exist.


Oh, don't get me wrong, the possibility is always there. Anything is possible, really.

It's just that, given the lack of evidence, the probability of him existing is close to nil. So it's quite accurate to say that he does not exist.

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Kyrinasaj
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Postby Kyrinasaj » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:40 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Kyrinasaj wrote:Well, Christians would come up with the argument that he exists in another reality, they go so far as calling that ''Heaven'' and go so far too suggest that only the worthy get in.

Then again how do you disprove God?

Lack of evidence doesn't mean that it's impossible to exist, while I highly doubt that it would exist.


Oh, don't get me wrong, the possibility is always there. Anything is possible, really.

It's just that, given the lack of evidence, the probability of him existing is close to nil. So it's quite accurate to say that he does not exist.

I guess...That's one way to look at it. But I just don't see almost no evidence and no evidence at all as different things.
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Postby Risottia » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:41 pm

Avendonia wrote:God exists. Certainly not in the Abrahamic sense, but in a much more abstract sense. One can see that this universe is alive. God, if anything, is that life, that logic...

Sorry, this is not how logic works.
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Oldest Germany
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Postby Oldest Germany » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:42 pm

There's not some all seeing immortal deity on a throne sitting on a cloud in the sky.

tl;dr God does not exist.
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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:46 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Hobbesian Metaphysician wrote:I recall one conversation on TV tropes about how if mortal humans saw god they would literally die. One user hearkened back to the incident in the Garden, and how humanity is unfit to perceive God (which borders on eldritch territory for some).


Well, if that's the case, then the concept of the Trinity is wrong even from a theological standpoint. Because as I recall quite a few people saw Jesus, and spoke to him, and whatnot.

Unless him being in corporeal form somehow negates the whole dying by seeing him thing.


Jesus was a Man - the Bible is quite explicit on that point,

but more importantly why is it that non-beleivers and atheist spend so much of their time and energy seeking to refute the existence of a being they insist does not exist? What is the fundamental motivation that causes such people to 'struggle with god' rather than with UFO's or Leprechauns? Is it rebellion of spirit against a divine tyrant or heavenly father?

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Digital Planets
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Postby Digital Planets » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:48 pm

Cetacea wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Well, if that's the case, then the concept of the Trinity is wrong even from a theological standpoint. Because as I recall quite a few people saw Jesus, and spoke to him, and whatnot.

Unless him being in corporeal form somehow negates the whole dying by seeing him thing.


Jesus was a Man - the Bible is quite explicit on that point,

but more importantly why is it that non-beleivers and atheist spend so much of their time and energy seeking to refute the existence of a being they insist does not exist? What is the fundamental motivation that causes such people to 'struggle with god' rather than with UFO's or Leprechauns? Is it rebellion of spirit against a divine tyrant or heavenly father?


I thought Jesus was an Argonian?
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Postby Godular » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:50 pm

In the absence of evidence supporting a positive statement (in this case 'god exists'), it becomes logically necessary to default to the negation of that statement (i.e. god does not exist). To claim otherwise opens the door to invisible pink unicorns, garage-dwelling dragons, flying spaghetti monsters, ninjas, and the notion that solar panels drain the sun of its energy.
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Sanctissima
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:51 pm

Kyrinasaj wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong, the possibility is always there. Anything is possible, really.

It's just that, given the lack of evidence, the probability of him existing is close to nil. So it's quite accurate to say that he does not exist.

I guess...That's one way to look at it. But I just don't see almost no evidence and no evidence at all as different things.


Eh, maybe one day some shred of evidence will come along suggesting that maybe God does exist. That is within the realm of possibility.

It's just that so far, we've found nothing. And I think that having nothing, after thousands of years of looking, is proof enough that he doesn't exist.

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Kyrinasaj
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Postby Kyrinasaj » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:53 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Kyrinasaj wrote:I guess...That's one way to look at it. But I just don't see almost no evidence and no evidence at all as different things.


Eh, maybe one day some shred of evidence will come along suggesting that maybe God does exist. That is within the realm of possibility.

It's just that so far, we've found nothing. And I think that having nothing, after thousands of years of looking, is proof enough that he doesn't exist.

I think so...

But maybe another god than the Abrahamic on exists somewhere, however unlikely.

But on the other hand science has figured more out than religion ever had.
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Jumalariik
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Postby Jumalariik » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:53 pm

I believe in the God. :)
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The Great Devourer of All
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Postby The Great Devourer of All » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:53 pm

Digital Planets wrote:God exists. I met him in one of my LSD trips, but also because when some girl dressing skimpy says 'Only God can judge me', and you hear a booming voice in the air that says "YOU'RE A WHORE".


Well, pack it up, boys. We've got definitive proof right here.

Also, OP, what would you consider the fourth religion that worships God? I can only think of the three Abrahamic ones.
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:53 pm

Based upon the argument of Aquinas, which I take to be correct, I then build up more arguments to justify that God must possess a will and be aware.
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