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Fish Shall Not Be Eaten

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Trollgaard
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Who said that? Muslims are free to ban eating pork in their own families. Just not for everyone. Same goes for any religion. They are free to forbid people of their faith from eating x, but it should not be against the law of the land to eat x for everyone.


IM wrote this brainfart of a thread based on this thread, where alternatives to pork were planned to be removed from a local French school system menu with only side dishes being offered as alternatives if the family could not afford to make their own lunches for children.


That sounds like a dick move.

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BK117B2
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Postby BK117B2 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:16 pm

For me it would greatly depend on whether or not they were correct

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Lunatic Goofballs
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Postby Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:18 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
IM wrote this brainfart of a thread based on this thread, where alternatives to pork were planned to be removed from a local French school system menu with only side dishes being offered as alternatives if the family could not afford to make their own lunches for children.


That sounds like a dick move.


:clap:
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:19 pm

Diopolis wrote:If the parent really believed that fish should not be eaten, he made the most ethical decision he could have. Of course, as an authority figure he would have had to have taken into account such things as "did the child know he was eating fish" and "how well has the fish prohibition been explained in the past".

If someone's going to get THAT pissed, I'm sure it's been made extremely clear
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Trollgaard wrote:I see nothing wrong with the OPs scenario. It is the right of the parent to set the rules their children follow.


not when it involves forcing religion on people

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Trollgaard
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:34 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:I see nothing wrong with the OPs scenario. It is the right of the parent to set the rules their children follow.


not when it involves forcing religion on people


Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:35 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
not when it involves forcing religion on people


Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.


there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination

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Trollgaard
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.


there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination


All cultures and societies indoctrinate the next generation. That's what society is.

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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.


there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination

One could claim children are vulnerable at education facilities too considering the indoctrination which goes on there.
I am just going to lay it out here, I am going to be very blunt.

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Orpheocordyceps Unilateralis
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Postby Orpheocordyceps Unilateralis » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:36 pm

You should be able to impose that until the age of 12, because by then the child is on the brink of being a teenager and must make their own choices, choose their own paths.

But then if the child's under twelve, experimentation should most definitely not be met with punishment. I personally think it never should, nor should breaking any religious rule for any reason. That is, other than obvious ones like murder, rape, and other federal crimes.

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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:40 pm

Brainwashing your children is unethical.

News at 11.
Unreachable.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.


there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination

How would you go about raising them?
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:42 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Brainwashing your children is unethical.

News at 11.


Only if you brainwash them to believe a deity. If you brainwash them into believing any form of religion is backwards deluded bullshit it's ETHICAL. *nod*
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
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The Hobbesian Metaphysician
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Postby The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:42 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Brainwashing your children is unethical.

News at 11.

An incredibly vague word right there.
I am just going to lay it out here, I am going to be very blunt.

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Kaalmi
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Postby Kaalmi » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:43 pm

I believe if you do believe in a religion that has these laws, you should follow them to truly be a follower. If you don't, who cares?
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Orpheocordyceps Unilateralis
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Postby Orpheocordyceps Unilateralis » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:43 pm

Australian Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination

How would you go about raising them?

Allow them to decide their faith and other personal choices, but regulate safety-related things and basic public conduct.

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Jute
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jute » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:46 pm

Wait, but didn't Infected Mushroom argue in another thread against recreational fishing?
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Jacobania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Jacobania » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:47 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Consider the following hypothetical situation...


This entire thread is based on a hypothetical situation established to create a strawman, and then have everyone dismantle a real-world position by tackling this strawman.

If you have a problem with a real-world cultural practice, address that, not some hypothetical scenario that you thought up.
There's no mania like Jacobania! :)

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Jute
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jute » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:48 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is

children are vulnerable to indoctrination


All cultures and societies indoctrinate the next generation. That's what society is.

Atheistic-irreligious education is just as much "indoctrination", or as little. It depends on how you educate children, not what you tell them.
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science
and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
"A rejection of all philosophy is in itself philosophy."

Check out the Jutean language! Talk to me about anything. Avian air force flag (Source) Definition of atheism Is Religion Dangerous?

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Italios
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Founded: Dec 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Italios » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:49 pm

Jute wrote:Wait, but didn't Infected Mushroom argue in another thread against recreational fishing?

This is just a scenario.
Trollgaard wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
not when it involves forcing religion on people


Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.

Okay so let's say I'm religious and my religion said I cannot eat some specific foods, many of which are important to growth and supporting your body's health, and contain nutrients. Is it fair that I force these on my child, so he cannot get a good diet, simply because I believe in it? What if he personally doesn't even believe in it?
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:50 pm

Australian Republic wrote:
Diopolis wrote:If the parent really believed that fish should not be eaten, he made the most ethical decision he could have. Of course, as an authority figure he would have had to have taken into account such things as "did the child know he was eating fish" and "how well has the fish prohibition been explained in the past".

If someone's going to get THAT pissed, I'm sure it's been made extremely clear

I'm sure- but punishing such a thing should be subject to the same standards as anything else(ie an honest mistake should not be punished or punished very lightly).
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Australian rePublic
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:50 pm

Italios wrote:
Jute wrote:Wait, but didn't Infected Mushroom argue in another thread against recreational fishing?

This is just a scenario.
Trollgaard wrote:
Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.

Okay so let's say I'm religious and my religion said I cannot eat some specific foods, many of which are important to growth and supporting your body's health, and contain nutrients. Is it fair that I force these on my child, so he cannot get a good diet, simply because I believe in it? What if he personally doesn't even believe in it?

Pork is vital to ones diet because?
From Greek Ansestry Orthodox Christian
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This account is fictious. Any In-Character posts made by this account do not reflect the actions of any real world government

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Trollgaard
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Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:50 pm

Italios wrote:
Jute wrote:Wait, but didn't Infected Mushroom argue in another thread against recreational fishing?

This is just a scenario.
Trollgaard wrote:
Its a parent's duty to raise children. Many people, I would say most, are religious. There is nothing wrong with parent's of x religion raising their kids to be followers of x religion.

Okay so let's say I'm religious and my religion said I cannot eat some specific foods, many of which are important to growth and supporting your body's health, and contain nutrients. Is it fair that I force these on my child, so he cannot get a good diet, simply because I believe in it? What if he personally doesn't even believe in it?


There are plenty of foods that are nutritious and promote good health and growth. If one or two of those are non-kosher, if you will, then that's not really a big deal.

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Italios
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Ex-Nation

Postby Italios » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:51 pm

Jacobania wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Consider the following hypothetical situation...


This entire thread is based on a hypothetical situation established to create a strawman, and then have everyone dismantle a real-world position by tackling this strawman.

If you have a problem with a real-world cultural practice, address that, not some hypothetical scenario that you thought up.

This is very similar to many situations. Judaism says you can't eat pork, because pigs are unclean, filthy animals. I am a Jew, albeit a virtually irreligious one who doesn't believe in God, and I will eat pork. Just because the food differs doesn't mean the actual cause doesn't.
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"individualism, at first, only saps the virtues of public life; but in the long run it attacks and destroys all others and is at length absorbed in selfishness." -alexis de tocqueville

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Diopolis
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:52 pm

Australian Republic wrote:
Italios wrote:This is just a scenario.
Okay so let's say I'm religious and my religion said I cannot eat some specific foods, many of which are important to growth and supporting your body's health, and contain nutrients. Is it fair that I force these on my child, so he cannot get a good diet, simply because I believe in it? What if he personally doesn't even believe in it?

Pork is vital to ones diet because?

Because anything to stick it to those religious people.
But seriously, you can have a balanced diet based on just about anything. Even veganism- although it's difficult.
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