Ban on atheism

[Eastern Equestria]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

Athiesm is simply the absence of belief in a god, regardless of the person's stance on his existence.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[Scomagia]

Wrong. Atheism requires no faith.

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

The absence of belief is not a belief.

[Cymrea]

Atheism should be banned. We're all better off without it.

Should is a wish word and has no place in law.

Banning atheism opens the door to rationalising the ban of any and all other religions. If this was something The United States was interested in doing, I'd think they would start with Scientology. But since the U.S. continues to value freedom of religion (and freedom from it), there is an infinitesimal chance of atheism being forbidden.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Our founding fathers weren't perfect.

Secularism triumphs what a single man thinks.

If that is true, then the secularists should refrain from idolizing Jefferson and his writings, because he has demonstrated a belief in God and Christ; and a support for Christianity (even if enforced!) on a state level.

He sounds less and less like a secularist the more I have read his quotes. He explored atheistical topics, but I think it was moreover for scholarly reasons, not as a sign of his support for atheism (which really is quite lacking).

[Pandeeria]

God and religion aren't the same thing. Religion was invented by people, initially as a means of knowing the unknowable, but, ultimately it became a means by which a few could control many. Religion, like most man-made tools, is not inherently evil, but has great potential for evil (as has been demonstrated throughout history). The concept of God was tossed out of religion when the first religious leader realized that he could use it to get sex and resources.

Whether a deity exists or not is unprovable. Whether someone believes or not is irrelevant and attempting to legally force a pretense of belief is hypocritical.

Theism inhereantly has the proponent of God.

So your entire post was a waste.

[Lucian nyell]

Baha'ís believe in Christ, but in a different way.

Er...what?

First, it's impossible to ban any type of belief as they are thought processes and emotions. The only way to accomplish that is mass mind control. I hope you don't favor that. Of course you can use fear and coersion, which always seems the popular choice. However, an atheist will remain an atheist until give him reason to believe of his own free will. We can't just ban everything wr don't like.that's cheap weak and lazy.
My friends and I are pagan, not devil worshipers btw, karma is our deterrent from treating others badly and simply being taught to be nice as a child, is also helpful.
I find it ironic that the opening op's statement ends with one of those verses calling for the murders of nonbelievers. You do realize that includes children and elderly? There never seems to be an age limit to the genocides called for by God in the Bible. Or was that just kings excusing bad or irrational behavior?

[Bolrieg]

You are aware that Hitler and Saddam were theist right and Franklin was agnostic? Oh and George Bush was the most hated US president to date right?

How did you miss the bolded? Gandhi, a Christian?

I was going to mention that but my internet went down and I couldn't be bothered.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Jefferson might have seen Jesus as a great moral leader and guru, he doesn't seem to have worshipped him as his god though. Not everyone who venerates Jesus is a Christian after all (just ask the Muslims...).

Jefferson professed to be a Christian in this writing, however:

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian; that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".

Of course it can be interpreted many ways, but Jefferson did not seem to be a devout agnostic. If he was opposed to state's rights of religion, or religion in general, I doubt that he would have approved of the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance:

"Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged."

Jefferson was borderline agnostic in his beliefs of God, and most of the founding fathers were Deists.

However, Jefferson adhered to the doctrines of Jesus, so that makes him a Christian in his view.

[New Socialist South Africa]

The lack of a belief is directly opposite to a belief.

The lack of a belief is the position of the agnostic, that there is no proof of the existence of God. The atheist, however,. has a belief that there is no God. The former says I do not know, a non-faith based stand; the latter says I know but cannot prove, which is faith.

No you are thinking of gnostic atheism, agnostic atheism also exists and is far more prominent. You cannot just be an agnostic.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Jefferson... lived in a time where deists did not exist as an entity with a name. The only question of religion was whether you were Jewish, or Muslim, or what flavor of Christianity you were. But Jefferson's writings, and the writings of other founding fathers, indicate that Jefferson felt the whole awe of seeing some divine in the natural world things that generally indicates deism now. Just because he said he was a Christian then, doesn't mean that he actually was... just that Christianity was the closest thing he could use to express deist beliefs then.

Atheism, agnosticism, and Deism very much did exist at that time, actually. If Jefferson was one of those sincerely, he would have said so. If he was a secularist, why would he have endorsed the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance?

[Soviet Haaregrad]

Jefferson might have seen Jesus as a great moral leader and guru, he doesn't seem to have worshipped him as his god though. Not everyone who venerates Jesus is a Christian after all (just ask the Muslims...).

Jefferson professed to be a Christian in this writing, however:

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian; that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus".

Of course it can be interpreted many ways, but Jefferson did not seem to be a devout agnostic. If he was opposed to state's rights of religion, or religion in general, I doubt that he would have approved of the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance:

"Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged."

Many people claim to be Christians without accepting the basic tenets of the faith. If you reject the divinity of Christ and if you reject the trinity you're not a Christian, by the traditional definition. You might have a "personal relationship with Jesus" or whatever else you'd like to claim, but if you don't accept the basic tenets of the Christian faith, you're not a Christian, even if you worship Christ*.

* And to what extent Jefferson did this is uncertain.

[Skinia]

The lack of a belief is directly opposite to a belief.

The lack of a belief is the position of the agnostic, that there is no proof of the existence of God. The atheist, however,. has a belief that there is no God. The former says I do not know, a non-faith based stand; the latter says I know but cannot prove, which is faith.

False. Atheists by default don't say they know. Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. They are merely different forms of irreligion much like apatheism and antitheism. There are agnostic atheists and theists as well as gnostic atheists and theists.

[Imsogone]

God and religion aren't the same thing. Religion was invented by people, initially as a means of knowing the unknowable, but, ultimately it became a means by which a few could control many. Religion, like most man-made tools, is not inherently evil, but has great potential for evil (as has been demonstrated throughout history). The concept of God was tossed out of religion when the first religious leader realized that he could use it to get sex and resources.

Whether a deity exists or not is unprovable. Whether someone believes or not is irrelevant and attempting to legally force a pretense of belief is hypocritical.

Theism inhereantly has the proponent of God.

So your entire post was a waste.

Illogical buzzwords - and you mis-spelled inherently.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

In response to the OP title no, banning atheism is stupid.

Even though I believe in God out of personal belief I cannot fathom the possibility of actually depriving other people from exercising their faith or lack thereof. That is both against human rights and, if you are a Christian, that goes even against Jesus' teachings of loving one another.

[Elwher]

If it is not based on an unprovable belief, how can you prove there is no God? If you cannot prove something but believe it, that is faith.

Athiesm is simply the absence of belief in a god, regardless of the person's stance on his existence.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Atheism is the active disbelief in God, which is just as unprovable as the belief in God.

[Scomagia]

In response to the OP title no, banning atheism is stupid.

Even though I believe in God out of personal belief I cannot fathom the possibility of actually depriving other people from exercising their faith or lack thereof. That is both against human rights and, if you are a Christian, that goes even against Jesus' teachings of loving one another.

I'm guessing that those in favor of banning Atheism have been Evangelical "Christians".

[Skinia]

Athiesm is simply the absence of belief in a god, regardless of the person's stance on his existence.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Atheism is the active disbelief in God, which is just as unprovable as the belief in God.

Again, neither of those are mutually exclusive even by those definitions. Get your head out of your ass.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Jefferson... lived in a time where deists did not exist as an entity with a name. The only question of religion was whether you were Jewish, or Muslim, or what flavor of Christianity you were. But Jefferson's writings, and the writings of other founding fathers, indicate that Jefferson felt the whole awe of seeing some divine in the natural world things that generally indicates deism now. Just because he said he was a Christian then, doesn't mean that he actually was... just that Christianity was the closest thing he could use to express deist beliefs then.

Atheism, agnosticism, and Deism very much did exist at that time, actually. If Jefferson was one of those sincerely, he would have said so. If he was a secularist, why would he have endorsed the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance?

Anyone who has a vested interest in the unity of an entire nation can actually endorse something they might disagree with.

Surprisingly, some of us can think in practical terms and not our guts.

[Pandeeria]

Theism inhereantly has the proponent of God.

So your entire post was a waste.

Illogical buzzwords - and you mis-spelled inherently.

I'm sorry my great King. I understand it brings great displeasure upon your feet whenever I misspell the word inherently. I'll try harder in the future.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Jefferson was borderline agnostic in his beliefs of God, and most of the founding fathers were Deists.

Can you find a source to support the claim that most of the Founding Fathers were Deists? I have a source around here somewhere that shows the opposite, but I'm still trying to find it. Give me a few minutes.

[Mavorpen]

Atheism, agnosticism, and Deism very much did exist at that time, actually. If Jefferson was one of those sincerely, he would have said so. If he was a secularist, why would he have endorsed the Third Article of the Northwest Ordinance?

Anyone who has a vested interest in the unity of an entire nation can actually endorse something they might disagree with.

Surprisingly, some of us can think in practical terms and not our guts.

You DO know he's just trying to threadjack, right? That's his SOLE purpose on NSG.

[Immoren]

Secularism triumphs what a single man thinks.

I thought that was The Black Knight.

[Mavorpen]

Jefferson was borderline agnostic in his beliefs of God, and most of the founding fathers were Deists.

Can you find a source to support the claim that most of the Founding Fathers were Deists? I have a source around here somewhere that shows the opposite, but I'm still trying to find it. Give me a few minutes.

How about you actually, for once, discuss the topic of the thread?

[New Socialist South Africa]

Athiesm is simply the absence of belief in a god, regardless of the person's stance on his existence.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Agnostic - a position of a lack of knowledge. Often relate to the existence of god / gods, but not necessarily linked to the existence of god / gods.

Agnostic Atheism = "I don't believe in god but would if evidence could be presented proving the existence of one."

Gnostic Atheism = "I don't believe in god and will never believe in god regardless of any evidence presented to me."

Fixed that for you.

[Imsogone]

Illogical buzzwords - and you mis-spelled inherently.

I'm sorry my great King. I understand it brings great displeasure upon your feet whenever I misspell the word inherently. I'll try harder in the future.

Please do. And I'm a goddess, not a king. I expect the sacrifice of your first-born.