Anti-Incest Laws in Germany under review

[Imperializt Russia]

But, what if two siblings are far apart in age but still adults. One can be much younger and have far less experience than the other. They aren't equals then. One can still be taken advantage.

You do realize that large age differences are not illegal unless one of those involved is under 18, yes?

The German age of consent is 14.
Unless they have a Romeo-and-Juliet clause stating that over-18s may only have sex with other over-18s.

[Laerod]

You do realize that large age differences are not illegal unless one of those involved is under 18, yes?

Obviously.

That means the age difference being that large is irrelevant.

[Laerod]

You do realize that large age differences are not illegal unless one of those involved is under 18, yes?

The German age of consent is 14.
Unless they have a Romeo-and-Juliet clause stating that over-18s may only have sex with other over-18s.

There are such clauses, yes.

[Qazaq Eli]

Incest is now apparently a "fundamental right" according to a German committee:

Anti-incest laws in Germany could be scrapped after a government-backed group said relationships between brothers and sisters should be legal.

Laws banning incest between brothers and sisters in Germany could be scrapped after a government ethics committee said the they were an unacceptable intrusion into the right to sexual self-determination.

“Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo,” the German Ethics Council said in a statement. “The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination is to be weighed more heavily than the abstract idea of protection of the family.”

Their intervention follows a notorious case in which a brother and sister living as partners in Saxony had four children together. The couple had been raised separately and only met when the brother, identified only as Patrick S, was an adult, and his sister Susan K was 16.

Patrick S was sentenced to more than three years in prison for incest and the couple have since failed in their bid to have the guilty verdict overturned by the European Court of Human Rights.

Incest, the game the whole family can play!

This amuses me, because if this does come to fruition, Germany will now have two things that rednecks of America hold sacrosanct: mullets and casual incest. Aside of course from my clear ripping on those with single figure IQ's that live deep in the wilds of Alabama, this really needs to be nipped in the bud. For one thing, incestual relationships and intercourse will have repercussions on the children that may result as part of such relationships, especially if there is a history of illnesses and medical conditions within the family. This means that there is a heightened risk that if both parents have the same risks from x medical condition/genetic disease/illness (something which is drastically reduced from non-incestual relationships), the risk that a child will be born with a heightened risk of having said medical conditions, genetic diseases and illnesses.

So what say you, NSG? Get er done? Or continue to promote incest as a taboo in Western society (outside of royalty)?

What?

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

well there are health risks in other types of relationships that we allow. We don't throw people in prison for a fully consensual relationship in which one partner carries a genetic condition he could pass on to the kids...

Why should we throw consenting lovers in prison just because they are related?

Also, according to the laws of evolution, we are all related.

According to the laws of evolution, we are likely not related, as humanity mutually evolved from its predecessor in different places at about the same time.

To help us understand that science has practical limits, it is useful to divide science into two different areas: operational science and historical (origins) science. Operational science deals with testing and verifying ideas in the present and leads to the production of useful products like computers, cars, and satellites. Historical (origins) science involves interpreting evidence from the past and includes the models of evolution and special creation. Recognizing that everyone has presuppositions that shape the way they interpret the evidence is an important step in realizing that historical science is not equal to operational science. Because no one was there to witness the past (except God), we must interpret it based on a set of starting assumptions. Creationists and evolutionists have the same evidence; they just interpret it within a different framework. Evolution denies the role of God in the universe, and creation accepts His eyewitness account—the Bible—as the foundation for arriving at a correct understanding of the universe.

https://answersingenesis.org/what-is-sc ... s-science/

[Pandeeria]

But, what if two siblings are far apart in age but still adults. One can be much younger and have far less experience than the other. They aren't equals then. One can still be taken advantage.

This is true of any two adults. Should we just enshrine the half plus seven rule in law?

Half plus seven rule?

[Arestari]

False.

Apparently ~4% is "almost guaranteed."

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth. Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

I find it unlikely that incest would happen in a family for that long but just because I find it unlikely DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T HAPPEN.

Therefore, brother and sister couples should not conceive so to stop the problem before it starts. Instead, just adopt a child.

[Imperializt Russia]

The German age of consent is 14.
Unless they have a Romeo-and-Juliet clause stating that over-18s may only have sex with other over-18s.

There are such clauses, yes.

Fair enough.
I'd have thought it strange otherwise.

[Ifreann]

Which is different from other relationships with large age gaps, how?
Assuming that age difference (within legal standards) instantly = power imbalance.

There are people who can seduce an innocent adult, in a sense. There are age normal and intelligence normal adults who are incredibly unsophisticated sexually. They may be more vulnerable to a sexually aggesssive person---brother,sister.

They may also be vulnerable to a random stranger. What's your point?

[Aequalitia]

You can go liberal, but you can go too liberal. In most cases, Incest is just that person 1 forces person 2 in the family having sex with. To those cases, you should stay on with anti-incest laws.

That would still be rape.

Some people don't see rape in the family as rape, but as 'incest'.

[Imperializt Russia]

That would still be rape.

Some people don't see rape in the family as rape, but as 'incest'.

Incest can be rape. Rape can be incestuous.

The two terms are not interchangeable.

[Juristonia]

Which is different from other relationships with large age gaps, how?
Assuming that age difference (within legal standards) instantly = power imbalance.

There are people who can seduce an innocent adult, in a sense. There are age normal and intelligence normal adults who are incredibly unsophisticated sexually. They may be more vulnerable to a sexually aggesssive person---brother,sister.

Yes, that was the point I was making..?
That that's not limited to family.

[Laerod]

<snip>

This is irrelevant. We're talking about ethics not science.

[Orangi]

That would still be rape.

Some people don't see rape in the family as rape, but as 'incest'.

You gonna' source or are you just gonna' toss conjecture around all day?

[Pandeeria]

Apparently ~4% is "almost guaranteed."

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth. Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

I find it unlikely that incest would happen in a family for that long but just because I find it unlikely DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T HAPPEN.

Therefore, brother and sister couples should not conceive so to stop the problem before it starts. Instead, just adopt a child.

There's alreayd plenty of orphans that need a home. They should just avoid any potential medical problems that may arise and adopt.

[The House of Xavier]

well a twin brother and sister may mutually love each other in real life for example...

how's that any different from gay marriage?

How is it alike? Whats the similarity between sex between people of the same gender and sex between people who are related?

Consent of two individuals.

[Imperializt Russia]

This is true of any two adults. Should we just enshrine the half plus seven rule in law?

Half plus seven rule?

It's said the "perfect" age partner for a man is half the man's age plus seven years.

No idea how or why this "rule" exists.

[Laerod]

That would still be rape.

Some people don't see rape in the family as rape, but as 'incest'.

And they don't include German prosecutors or judges so the point is moot.

[Arestari]

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth. Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

I find it unlikely that incest would happen in a family for that long but just because I find it unlikely DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T HAPPEN.

Therefore, brother and sister couples should not conceive so to stop the problem before it starts. Instead, just adopt a child.

There's alreayd plenty of orphans that need a home. They should just avoid any potential medical problems that may arise and adopt.

Exactly, that is what I'm saying.

[The Kingfish]

There are people who can seduce an innocent adult, in a sense. There are age normal and intelligence normal adults who are incredibly unsophisticated sexually. They may be more vulnerable to a sexually aggesssive person---brother,sister.

They may also be vulnerable to a random stranger. What's your point?

The point is they aren't equals aside from being adults.

[Juristonia]

Apparently ~4% is "almost guaranteed."

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth. Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

I find it unlikely that incest would happen in a family for that long but just because I find it unlikely DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T HAPPEN.

Therefore, brother and sister couples should not conceive so to stop the problem before it starts. Instead, just adopt a child.

So we should ban people from doing something because it might end up with something that might, if repeated over several generations, cause a possible problem at some point in the fairly distant future.

[Laerod]

They may also be vulnerable to a random stranger. What's your point?

The point is they aren't equals aside from being adults.

Which means doodly squat because people not being equals aside from being adults may be a valid concern but is not recognized by law in any other case.

[Ifreann]

Apparently ~4% is "almost guaranteed."

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth.

Yes, generally if consenting adults are allowed to have sex with other consenting adults, that means all consenting adults, even if their parents were siblings.

Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

Sure it could. But it's not especially likely. Incest being legal doesn't mean that everyone's going to start fucking their siblings all of a sudden.

[The Kingfish]

The point is they aren't equals aside from being adults.

Which means doodly squat because people not being equals aside from being adults may be a valid concern but is not recognized by law in any other case.

I was replying to a post that Imperializt Russia made. It was a specific poiint I was making to him. I wasn't making the case for illegality.

The point is lost now.

[Fralinia]

That was a miscommunication on my part, I apologize.

However, if incest between one couple is allowed, then that would mean THEIR children would be allowed to have incest too, and THEIR children, and THEIR children, so on and so forth. Now of course, you MOST LIKELY wouldn't be seeing any problems in the first few pairs, however continual incest WOULD produce a problem over time if that should happen.

I find it unlikely that incest would happen in a family for that long but just because I find it unlikely DOESN'T MEAN it CAN'T HAPPEN.

Therefore, brother and sister couples should not conceive so to stop the problem before it starts. Instead, just adopt a child.

So we should ban people from doing something because it might end up with something that might, if repeated over several generations, cause a possible problem at some point in the fairly distant future.

Exactly. By his logic, we should ban jobs that expose people to higher radiation doses, since the cumulative rise in DNA mutations could just keep getting worse if the kids keep taking up their parent's trade.