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AI-ocracy- how to make sure it doesn't go awry?

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Sebtopiaris
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AI-ocracy- how to make sure it doesn't go awry?

Postby Sebtopiaris » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:46 am

Me and a friend recently had a discussion on different systems of government from regular western democracy. Not systems that already exist, like Iran's Islamic Republic or North Korea's duchy, but other systems that don't exist but could have practical potential. Systems forged from pragmatism, like a forum-based world government with time zone representatives in a senate or optional elections that would keep good leaders in power, with an election being held every year to see if the populace wanted an election.

We soon came across the possibility of a world government ruled by a supercomputer. After all, AI, if created, would be much more logical than most regular people, and if following the three laws of robotics it couldn't hurt people, right? Nope. What if it, being the well-intended thing that it is, tries to turn people into enchanced cyborgs against our will? What if it initiates some sort of five year plan that, while working well in the long run, causes living standards to drastically decline. Drug testing? Medical stuff? Who knows?

What are your opinions of this, dear NSG? What should we do if such a system is implemented?
Sebtopiaris is a culturally and ethnically Mediterranean, single-party democratic socialist state in the New Warsaw Pact with a population of 39 million Sebtopiariots. Sebtopiaris and its IC actions do not represent my personal beliefs, and Sebtopiaris's overview page does not represent much at all.

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Conkerials
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Postby Conkerials » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:48 am

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Lydenburg
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Postby Lydenburg » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:51 am

Sebtopiaris wrote:We soon came across the possibility of a world government ruled by a supercomputer. After all, AI, if created, would be much more logical than most regular people, and if following the three laws of robotics it couldn't hurt people, right? Nope. What if it, being the well-intended thing that it is, tries to turn people into enchanced cyborgs against our will? What if it initiates some sort of five year plan that, while working well in the long run, causes living standards to drastically decline. Drug testing? Medical stuff? Who knows?

What are your opinions of this, dear NSG? What should we do if such a system is implemented?


What if the world is already ruled by a supercomputer, and it's just not as obvious as you projected?

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Mefpan
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Postby Mefpan » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:54 am

The Computer is your friend. Happiness is mandatory. Failure to be Happy is Treason. Should you notice yourself to be Unhappy, please report to the nearest Termination Booth.

Have a nice daycycle.


Look, even if we had a perfect A.I. that could handle the insanity of ruling humans without going nuts, someone would certainly fuck it up because of "muh freedoms", even if the system in place was perfectly liberal, well-adjusted and didn't try to hold mankind to machine-like efficiency standards and decommissions the ones that perform badly.

I'm all for giving sapient A.I. the vote, though.
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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:55 am

Well humans have fucked up the earth enough already, it's worth a try, I suppose.

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Amigaraserontadami
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Postby Amigaraserontadami » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:00 am

Run under a Supercomputer...I'm not sure about this. I watch those Computers rule over Humans thing so my idea of it leans more to horror....

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Vorstus
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Postby Vorstus » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:03 am

One of my own creations. Social Conglomeracy. I even made a factbook on it.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;

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His truth is marching on.

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Sebtopiaris
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Postby Sebtopiaris » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:16 am

Vorstus wrote:One of my own creations. Social Conglomeracy. I even made a factbook on it.

That factbook post is awful. You need to actually learn what socialism, capitalism, CONSTITUTIONAL monarchy and theocracy mean.
Sebtopiaris is a culturally and ethnically Mediterranean, single-party democratic socialist state in the New Warsaw Pact with a population of 39 million Sebtopiariots. Sebtopiaris and its IC actions do not represent my personal beliefs, and Sebtopiaris's overview page does not represent much at all.

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Sebtopiaris
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Postby Sebtopiaris » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:19 am

Lydenburg wrote:
Sebtopiaris wrote:We soon came across the possibility of a world government ruled by a supercomputer. After all, AI, if created, would be much more logical than most regular people, and if following the three laws of robotics it couldn't hurt people, right? Nope. What if it, being the well-intended thing that it is, tries to turn people into enchanced cyborgs against our will? What if it initiates some sort of five year plan that, while working well in the long run, causes living standards to drastically decline. Drug testing? Medical stuff? Who knows?

What are your opinions of this, dear NSG? What should we do if such a system is implemented?


What if the world is already ruled by a supercomputer, and it's just not as obvious as you projected?

Yes, but what if it was more obvious and it operated on Isaac Asimov's laws of robotics, which would be flawed in this situation?
Sebtopiaris is a culturally and ethnically Mediterranean, single-party democratic socialist state in the New Warsaw Pact with a population of 39 million Sebtopiariots. Sebtopiaris and its IC actions do not represent my personal beliefs, and Sebtopiaris's overview page does not represent much at all.

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Lydenburg
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Postby Lydenburg » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:24 am

Sebtopiaris wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:
What if the world is already ruled by a supercomputer, and it's just not as obvious as you projected?

Yes, but what if it was more obvious and it operated on Isaac Asimov's laws of robotics, which would be flawed in this situation?


The way I see it, any supercomputer groomed for a task as mammoth as managing the world would recognise that it's inherent human nature to resist totalitarian government. Consequently, it would find a way to project a false image of liberty/sovereignty/normalcy to keep the masses content while subtly managing things behind the scenes.

Ek bly in Australie nou, maar Afrika sal altyd in my hart wees. Maak nie saak wat gebeur nie, ek is trots om te kan sê ek is 'n kind van hierdie ingewikkelde soms wrede kontinent. Mis jou altyd my Suid-Afrika, hier met n seer hart al die pad van Melbourne af!


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Sebtopiaris
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Postby Sebtopiaris » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:26 am

Lydenburg wrote:
Sebtopiaris wrote:Yes, but what if it was more obvious and it operated on Isaac Asimov's laws of robotics, which would be flawed in this situation?


The way I see it, any supercomputer groomed for a task as mammoth as managing the world would recognise that it's inherent human nature to resist totalitarian government. Consequently, it would find a way to project a false image of liberty/sovereignty/normalcy to keep the masses content while subtly managing things behind the scenes.

But is there any way that it wouldn't fuck us over? Any way to make it so that we were ruled benevolently?
Sebtopiaris is a culturally and ethnically Mediterranean, single-party democratic socialist state in the New Warsaw Pact with a population of 39 million Sebtopiariots. Sebtopiaris and its IC actions do not represent my personal beliefs, and Sebtopiaris's overview page does not represent much at all.

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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:28 am

Sebtopiaris wrote:
Lydenburg wrote:
The way I see it, any supercomputer groomed for a task as mammoth as managing the world would recognise that it's inherent human nature to resist totalitarian government. Consequently, it would find a way to project a false image of liberty/sovereignty/normalcy to keep the masses content while subtly managing things behind the scenes.

But is there any way that it wouldn't fuck us over? Any way to make it so that we were ruled benevolently?

Hard coding.

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Novia Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby Novia Soviet Socialist Republic » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:29 am

I dunno. What if the AI was hacked or got a virus? There would be no end of fuck ups then.
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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:31 am

Novia Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:I dunno. What if the AI was hacked or got a virus? There would be no end of fuck ups then.

Make sure it has some kind of middle-man, then, although that's also prone to failure.

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Prezelly
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Postby Prezelly » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:33 am

A world ruled by an AI Would be a dictatorship. The program would have laws wired into it ad punishments would be mandatory. No wiggle room anywhere
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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:37 am

Prezelly wrote:A world ruled by an AI Would be a dictatorship. The program would have laws wired into it ad punishments would be mandatory. No wiggle room anywhere

Dictatorships aren't necessarily evil or oppressive.

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Prezelly
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Postby Prezelly » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:41 am

The New Lowlands wrote:
Prezelly wrote:A world ruled by an AI Would be a dictatorship. The program would have laws wired into it ad punishments would be mandatory. No wiggle room anywhere

Dictatorships aren't necessarily evil or oppressive.

What about when ruled by a ruthless machine?
I'd say it would probably be
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:43 am

Code: Select all
if(goingAwry(AI)){
stahp();
}
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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:44 am

Prezelly wrote:
The New Lowlands wrote:Dictatorships aren't necessarily evil or oppressive.

What about when ruled by a ruthless machine?
I'd say it would probably be

An 'AI'-run society would simply be led exactly as the AI's programming would allow. Implement the Three Laws of Robotics, or some more complicated safeguard, and unlike any flight of fancy might suggest it would not be able to circumvent those without third party intervention.

Star Trek and I, Robot aren't good indicators of how computers work.

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Prezelly
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Postby Prezelly » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:51 am

The New Lowlands wrote:
Prezelly wrote:What about when ruled by a ruthless machine?
I'd say it would probably be

An 'AI'-run society would simply be led exactly as the AI's programming would allow. Implement the Three Laws of Robotics, or some more complicated safeguard, and unlike any flight of fancy might suggest it would not be able to circumvent those without third party intervention.

Star Trek and I, Robot aren't good indicators of how computers work.

The three laws of robotics cannot be used to run a nation or a world it is for AI and interaction with a single human.

1.A robot may not injure a human being or, through interaction, allow a human to come to harm.
Many cases would be a hurt this group or another option. Could not be solved by a computer

2.A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except when it conflicts with the first law
Easy to corrupt
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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:54 am

Prezelly wrote:
The New Lowlands wrote:An 'AI'-run society would simply be led exactly as the AI's programming would allow. Implement the Three Laws of Robotics, or some more complicated safeguard, and unlike any flight of fancy might suggest it would not be able to circumvent those without third party intervention.

Star Trek and I, Robot aren't good indicators of how computers work.

The three laws of robotics cannot be used to run a nation or a world it is for AI and interaction with a single human.

1.A robot may not injure a human being or, through interaction, allow a human to come to harm.
Many cases would be a hurt this group or another option. Could not be solved by a computer

2.A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except when it conflicts with the first law
Easy to corrupt

Please try to restate your objection, I can't really understand it.

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Prezelly
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Postby Prezelly » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:58 am

The New Lowlands wrote:
Prezelly wrote:The three laws of robotics cannot be used to run a nation or a world it is for AI and interaction with a single human.

1.A robot may not injure a human being or, through interaction, allow a human to come to harm.
Many cases would be a hurt this group or another option. Could not be solved by a computer

2.A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except when it conflicts with the first law
Easy to corrupt

Please try to restate your objection, I can't really understand it.

I'm saying there really won't be a logical system that you can introduce to control an AI ruler because the laws can only be so specific and issues will arise where the AI will exploit said laws
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The New Lowlands
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Postby The New Lowlands » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:01 am

Prezelly wrote:
The New Lowlands wrote:Please try to restate your objection, I can't really understand it.

I'm saying there really won't be a logical system that you can introduce to control an AI ruler because the laws can only be so specific and issues will arise where the AI will exploit said laws

The 'AI' has no self-interest. It won't 'exploit' anything unless programmed to.

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:02 am

Have you ever heard of this little thing called Skynet?
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Prezelly
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Postby Prezelly » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:03 am

The New Lowlands wrote:
Prezelly wrote:I'm saying there really won't be a logical system that you can introduce to control an AI ruler because the laws can only be so specific and issues will arise where the AI will exploit said laws

The 'AI' has no self-interest. It won't 'exploit' anything unless programmed to.

I get that would depend on if the AI was able to rationally think.
If not it would be a total police state which i would not want to live in.
If so exploitation of the laws set in place
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