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Interactive map/study shows that 1 billion are antisemitic.

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Is antisemitism on the rise?

Yes
27
37%
No
39
53%
Other
7
10%
 
Total votes : 73

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Seriong
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Founded: Aug 12, 2012
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Postby Seriong » Wed May 28, 2014 4:40 am

I went through this study before, there are some issues with it:
You should check the methodology, and definitions. For example, for a while, anyone that was found to not 'support israel' was thought to be an anti-semite.
Lets look at the questions posed:
1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country
Believing this does not make one an anti-semite. In the same way that someone would not be labelled a bigot for saying to another person that they have a loyalty to an out of state college.
2) Jews have too much power in the business world
To label this as anti-semitism would also require anyone saying that men have too much power to be misandrist, that white people have too much power racist. We don't do that, and should at least remain consistent.
3) Jews have too much power in international financial markets
See above
4) Jews talk too much about the holocaust
This would not make someone an anti-semite. Saying that the issue is brought up too often does not imply any sort of hatred or mistrust of Jews.
5) Whether or not "Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus Christ"
This is simply the Biblical story.
6) Whether the surveyed opinion of Jews is influenced by the actions of Israel.
When Israel stops naming itself the homeland of the Jews, and speaking of itself as the Jewish state, this will die down. That's its motivation, not some feeling towards general Jews.
6.5) How it changed their opinion
See above
7) Whether anti-Jewish treatment came from anti-Jewish sentiment, or anti-Israel sentiment
Shouldn't provide any useful indication
8. Is the government doing enough to secure the safety of Jews.
See above
Always check the methodology, especially of something like the ADL, that has a stated agenda (Read: Bias).
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed May 28, 2014 4:41 am

Seriong wrote:I went through this study before, there are some issues with it:
You should check the methodology, and definitions. For example, for a while, anyone that was found to not 'support israel' was thought to be an anti-semite.
Lets look at the questions posed:
1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country
Believing this does not make one an anti-semite. In the same way that someone would not be labelled a bigot for saying to another person that they have a loyalty to an out of state college.
2) Jews have too much power in the business world
To label this as anti-semitism would also require anyone saying that men have too much power to be misandrist, that white people have too much power racist. We don't do that, and should at least remain consistent.
3) Jews have too much power in international financial markets
See above
4) Jews talk too much about the holocaust
This would not make someone an anti-semite. Saying that the issue is brought up too often does not imply any sort of hatred or mistrust of Jews.
5) Whether or not "Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus Christ"
This is simply the Biblical story.

6) Whether the surveyed opinion of Jews is influenced by the actions of Israel.
When Israel stops naming itself the homeland of the Jews, and speaking of itself as the Jewish state, this will die down. That's its motivation, not some feeling towards general Jews.
6.5) How it changed their opinion
See above
7) Whether anti-Jewish treatment came from anti-Jewish sentiment, or anti-Israel sentiment
Shouldn't provide any useful indication
8. Is the government doing enough to secure the safety of Jews.
See above
Always check the methodology, especially of something like the ADL, that has a stated agenda (Read: Bias).


Good to know the Romans apparently are Semites.
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Viritica
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Postby Viritica » Wed May 28, 2014 4:43 am

The fuck is wrong with people?
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Allet Klar Chefs
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Founded: Apr 26, 2014
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Postby Allet Klar Chefs » Wed May 28, 2014 5:21 am

Risottia wrote:
Allet Klar Chefs wrote:It's a very, very accepted term.

Because consensus = good, right?
Hence, by your own criterium, antisemitism in the Middle East = good.

No.

Clarity of expression requires that there is consensus on the meaning of words. Remember your Kant here.

"Antisemitism" as a term has been specifically about Jews for a long time now, and if you bring it up, people aren't going to think "oh yeah that anti-Arab thing", its a term used in a context involving the persecution of Jewish people.

That is not the same as saying consensus on all matters is good, or that the status quo is always the way forwards. But I think that on this issue, there is no particularly good case for change.

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Brutland and Norden
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Postby Brutland and Norden » Wed May 28, 2014 6:04 am

Rephesus wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:It seems that the US is the least antisemitic country in the world.


Nah. They didn't survey Israel ;)

Edit: And the Philippines is only 3% compared to the US' 9%.

So cute. My country is even less antisemitic than USA. :hug:
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Ganja-Lord Tupac
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Postby Ganja-Lord Tupac » Wed May 28, 2014 6:06 am

Antisemitism has been around forever, so I don't see it ever leaving our society, personally.
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The Re-Frisivisiaing
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Postby The Re-Frisivisiaing » Wed May 28, 2014 6:07 am

Seems like the numbers are probably inflated by conflating lack of support for Israel with hatred of Jews.

That's the kind of dishonesty you would come to expect from the damn-

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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Wed May 28, 2014 6:11 am

The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:Seems like the numbers are probably inflated by conflating lack of support for Israel with hatred of Jews.

That's the kind of dishonesty you would come to expect from the damn-

*whacked over head by ADL representative*


israel is only a small part of the survey questions, and even then half of it is more "do you think jews are more loyal to israel than here"
pro: good
anti: bad

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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Wed May 28, 2014 6:11 am

As I like to say "Getting "facts" about anti-Semitism from ADL is like getting "facts" about slavery from Jefferson Davis."
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The Re-Frisivisiaing
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Postby The Re-Frisivisiaing » Wed May 28, 2014 6:12 am

Alyakia wrote:
The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:Seems like the numbers are probably inflated by conflating lack of support for Israel with hatred of Jews.

That's the kind of dishonesty you would come to expect from the damn-

*whacked over head by ADL representative*


israel is only a small part of the survey questions, and even then half of it is more "do you think jews are more loyal to israel than here"

Isn't it a little bit of a trap asking people to generalize and then declaring them all bigots?
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Rutannia
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Founded: Mar 23, 2013
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Postby Rutannia » Wed May 28, 2014 6:14 am

I don't think anti-Semitism is on the rise, unfortunately I think it has always been there, just lurking in the background so to speak. The numbers could also as I've seen stated on here be influenced by the issues in Israel and what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza and people turning their hatred of Israel and Zionism into anti-Semitism, which is never a good thing.

Personally I blame the Israeli government for what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza, not the Jews, I'm quite surprised by the percentages if I'm honest something doesn't seem quite right about the 27% in Germany and the high numbers in the Nordic countries. The high percentage in Belgium also surprised me, but with the recent killing it is plausible that the number in Belgium might be correct.

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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Wed May 28, 2014 6:15 am

The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
israel is only a small part of the survey questions, and even then half of it is more "do you think jews are more loyal to israel than here"

Isn't it a little bit of a trap asking people to generalize and then declaring them all bigots?


if you think jews are all secretly beholden to their israeli masters and also run all the business and media and only are about themselves have too much control over world affairs and can you please shut up about the holocaust already not that i am completely sure it even happened there does come a point where "habours some anti-semetic views" becomes an entirely accurate description of you.

they weren't wickedly trapped by the wily jew into seeing "Jews are responsible for most of the world’s wars." and ticking "Probably true"
Last edited by Alyakia on Wed May 28, 2014 6:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
pro: good
anti: bad

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The Re-Frisivisiaing
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Postby The Re-Frisivisiaing » Wed May 28, 2014 6:18 am

Alyakia wrote:
The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:Isn't it a little bit of a trap asking people to generalize and then declaring them all bigots?


if you think jews are all secretly beholden to their israeli masters and also run all the business and media and only are about themselves have too much control over world affairs and can you please shut up about the holocaust already not that i am completely sure it even happened there does come a point where "habours some anti-semetic views" becomes an entirely accurate description of you.

Woah woah woah, that is a very long and very accusatory sentence. What I'm saying here is that support for Israel, which was counted on this survey, is not necessarily the only thing between people and anti-semitism.

And the edit, woah woah woah.

I think it's a bit much to question my lack of hatred for the Jewish people based on my doubt that an ADL survey was completely uninflated by questions that didn't work.
Last edited by The Re-Frisivisiaing on Wed May 28, 2014 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Re-Frisivisiaing
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Postby The Re-Frisivisiaing » Wed May 28, 2014 6:21 am

Seriong wrote:I went through this study before, there are some issues with it:
You should check the methodology, and definitions. For example, for a while, anyone that was found to not 'support israel' was thought to be an anti-semite.
Lets look at the questions posed:
1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country
Believing this does not make one an anti-semite. In the same way that someone would not be labelled a bigot for saying to another person that they have a loyalty to an out of state college.
2) Jews have too much power in the business world
To label this as anti-semitism would also require anyone saying that men have too much power to be misandrist, that white people have too much power racist. We don't do that, and should at least remain consistent.
3) Jews have too much power in international financial markets
See above
4) Jews talk too much about the holocaust
This would not make someone an anti-semite. Saying that the issue is brought up too often does not imply any sort of hatred or mistrust of Jews.
5) Whether or not "Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus Christ"
This is simply the Biblical story.
6) Whether the surveyed opinion of Jews is influenced by the actions of Israel.
When Israel stops naming itself the homeland of the Jews, and speaking of itself as the Jewish state, this will die down. That's its motivation, not some feeling towards general Jews.
6.5) How it changed their opinion
See above
7) Whether anti-Jewish treatment came from anti-Jewish sentiment, or anti-Israel sentiment
Shouldn't provide any useful indication
8. Is the government doing enough to secure the safety of Jews.
See above
Always check the methodology, especially of something like the ADL, that has a stated agenda (Read: Bias).

Those questions don't seem very biased. Were there more?
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Alyakia
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Founded: Jul 12, 2011
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Postby Alyakia » Wed May 28, 2014 6:26 am

The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
if you think jews are all secretly beholden to their israeli masters and also run all the business and media and only are about themselves have too much control over world affairs and can you please shut up about the holocaust already not that i am completely sure it even happened there does come a point where "habours some anti-semetic views" becomes an entirely accurate description of you.

Woah woah woah, that is a very long and very accusatory sentence. What I'm saying here is that support for Israel, which was counted on this survey, is not necessarily the only thing between people and anti-semitism.


the main set of 11 questions were

1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/the countries they live in].
2) Jews have too much power in the business world.
3) Jews have too much power in international
financial markets.
4) Jews don’t care about what happens to anyone but their own kind.
5) Jews have too much control over global affairs.
6) People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave.
7) Jews think they are better than other people.
8) Jews have too much control over the United States government.
9) Jews have too much control over the global media.
10) Jews still
talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust.
11) Jews are responsible for most of the world’s wars

also some stuff about the holocaust.

the only israel related questions were

In your opinion, is the violence directed against your country’s Jews a result of anti-Jewish sentiment or anti-Israel sentiment? (After questions about violence against Jews in the respondents country)
Now I am going to read you some countries and places. Please tell me if you are favorable or unfavorable towards that country and place. (spoilers: the places are israel and palestine)
Do actions taken by the state of Israel influence your opinions about Jews, or do they not influence your opinions about Jews?
IF they answer yes to the previous qusetion: Would you say that the actions Israel takes generally give you a better opinion of Jews or a worse opinion of Jews?

yeah. so there's literally one question about supporting israel. compared to a barrage about anti-semetic stereotypes and the holocaust. i think you're over-exaggerated how much the one "do you like israel?" question mattered. infact i'm not sure it even comes up on the sites graphs.

The Re-Frisivisiaing wrote:
Seriong wrote:I went through this study before, there are some issues with it:
You should check the methodology, and definitions. For example, for a while, anyone that was found to not 'support israel' was thought to be an anti-semite.
Lets look at the questions posed:
1) Jews are more loyal to Israel than to this country
Believing this does not make one an anti-semite. In the same way that someone would not be labelled a bigot for saying to another person that they have a loyalty to an out of state college.
2) Jews have too much power in the business world
To label this as anti-semitism would also require anyone saying that men have too much power to be misandrist, that white people have too much power racist. We don't do that, and should at least remain consistent.
3) Jews have too much power in international financial markets
See above
4) Jews talk too much about the holocaust
This would not make someone an anti-semite. Saying that the issue is brought up too often does not imply any sort of hatred or mistrust of Jews.
5) Whether or not "Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus Christ"
This is simply the Biblical story.
6) Whether the surveyed opinion of Jews is influenced by the actions of Israel.
When Israel stops naming itself the homeland of the Jews, and speaking of itself as the Jewish state, this will die down. That's its motivation, not some feeling towards general Jews.
6.5) How it changed their opinion
See above
7) Whether anti-Jewish treatment came from anti-Jewish sentiment, or anti-Israel sentiment
Shouldn't provide any useful indication
8. Is the government doing enough to secure the safety of Jews.
See above
Always check the methodology, especially of something like the ADL, that has a stated agenda (Read: Bias).

Those questions don't seem very biased. Were there more?


http://global100.adl.org/public/ADL_GLO ... NNAIRE.pdf
pro: good
anti: bad

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Murkwood
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Founded: Apr 05, 2014
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Postby Murkwood » Wed May 28, 2014 6:29 am

Didn't I already make a thread on this?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

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Benuty
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed May 28, 2014 6:58 am

Murkwood wrote:Didn't I already make a thread on this?

Yes that you did infact do.
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Wind in the Willows
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Founded: Apr 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wind in the Willows » Wed May 28, 2014 8:15 am

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Murkwood
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Founded: Apr 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Murkwood » Wed May 28, 2014 8:16 am

Benuty wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Didn't I already make a thread on this?

Yes that you did infact do.

So why do we have this one?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Libertarian California
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Founded: May 31, 2012
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Postby Libertarian California » Wed May 28, 2014 8:16 am

Merizoc wrote:As I like to say "Getting "facts" about anti-Semitism from ADL is like getting "facts" about slavery from Jefferson Davis."


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Wind in the Willows
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Postby Wind in the Willows » Wed May 28, 2014 8:17 am

Murkwood wrote:
Benuty wrote:Yes that you did infact do.

So why do we have this one?


Because somebody doesn't understand that you don't make a second thread on something while the other is still active. Perhaps? :unsure:

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Murkwood
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Founded: Apr 05, 2014
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Postby Murkwood » Wed May 28, 2014 8:19 am

Wind in the Willows wrote:
Murkwood wrote:So why do we have this one?


Because somebody doesn't understand that you don't make a second thread on something while the other is still active. Perhaps? :unsure:

In truth, I wouldn't say the other is that active anymore,
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Islamic republiq of Julundar
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Islamic republiq of Julundar » Wed May 28, 2014 4:20 pm

OP is surprised that Anti-Semitism increases in West Europe.

Tony Blair, minion of the Pope, wrote Immigration Laws so that Refugees from Islamistan would be sent back to be tortured and Terrorists from Islamistan would be welcomed with open arms.

Why is OP surprised that Government does government stuff

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Benuty
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed May 28, 2014 4:31 pm

Islamic republiq of Julundar wrote:OP is surprised that Anti-Semitism increases in West Europe.

Tony Blair, minion of the Pope, wrote Immigration Laws so that Refugees from Islamistan would be sent back to be tortured and Terrorists from Islamistan would be welcomed with open arms.

Why is OP surprised that Government does government stuff

Given that Phony Dare was not Prime Minister of the UK after leaving and converting to Catholicism your point?
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Satanic Socialist States
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Ex-Nation

Postby Satanic Socialist States » Wed May 28, 2014 6:17 pm

Stahlarev wrote:Too bad most of them haven't even seen a Jew ever.

Islamophobia is about as negative a phenomena as Naziphobia, and a term exclusivey used by fundamentalists, their supporters and anti-Zionist racists.
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