Which God?

[United Marktoria]

the unity in islam is a nonsense. one arab or iranian or kurd will never be my brother!

The concept of a Ummah has always been more wishful thinking than reality, but then the same is true of most religions.

the ümmet is a nonsense. you see that the hilafet stopped existing! A FRIEND OF A TURK CAN BE ONLY ANOTHER TURK-NOT ARAB, KURD, IRANIAN....

now, why is that?

[Abdju]

the unity in islam is a nonsense. one arab or iranian or kurd will never be my brother!

The concept of a Ummah has always been more wishful thinking than reality, but then the same is true of most religions.

the ümmet is a nonsense. you see that the hilafet stopped existing! A FRIEND OF A TURK CAN BE ONLY ANOTHER TURK-NOT ARAB, KURD, IRANIAN....

now, why is that?

Turkish nationalism... there's a lot of it.

[Straughn]

Hail Eris. All Hail Discordia. Hail, she what done it all. -----><-----

NICE flag, NICE post.

*misses Miss Holy See*
*sobs*

[Coffin-Breathe]

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

If not for religious reasons - why do you assume there is only ONE God ?

Well, even more interesting - who or what then created the creator ? (images of trompe l´oeil-art coming to mind...)

[Coffin-Breathe]

the unity in islam is a nonsense. one arab or iranian or kurd will never be my brother!

The concept of a Ummah has always been more wishful thinking than reality, but then the same is true of most religions.

the ümmet is a nonsense. you see that the hilafet stopped existing! A FRIEND OF A TURK CAN BE ONLY ANOTHER TURK-NOT ARAB, KURD, IRANIAN....

You should have told this to some of my Turkish friends, my friend; iy´aksham lar...

[Herrebrugh]

Follow the leader! He has a nice song! I forgot the name of the song though.

[Soviet Commu-Facism]

Just to clarify, God warned us that those things are wrong, so if someone goes to Hell for it, it's their own fault for not listening! It's like a parent telling a child not to play in traffic.

Unless the parents created the traffic and deliberately made sure it runs right past their house and adamantly refuse to explain to the kids WHY they should not play in the traffic, that comparison fails.

Besides, many of us are now "teenagers". Rebelling and such. If God is anything like human parents he is probably far prouder of the rebel nonbelievers than of the docile followers that merely do as he says.

That's more than ridiculous. Okay, that's it, I have made a decision; unless anyone who has read THE WHOLE BIBLE and can remember the main points of it, I will not listen to rebuttals. Come on! Created the traffic? Do you know how that sounds? Besides, God doesn't put things in our lives like that to hurt us, to to make life better. If you actually had a relationship with God you would understand that his plan is better. And don't try telling me you know best for yourself because you don't know whats going to happen tomorrow. Also, Satan does exist in the Bible, or did everyone suddenly forget? He isn't powerless, he is the one that put these evil things forward, and it was because of Adam and Eve that the world is so messed up.

Trust me, God isn't proud of people rebelling. Where did you even come up with that? Obviously many parents want their kids to be a little different than the other kids, but that doesn't mean they want you rebelling. God's followers are not simply docile yes men. The Christian life is one of the hardest lives (if not the hardest) to live because we suffer for our faith. Besides, his followers are the people who love him, and he wants to be loved. Very few parents want their kids to hate them.

Dyakov, I can no more prove God's existence to you than I can prove that there is wind to you. Obviously it is there, but I can't prove that to someone who doesn't want to believe it.

Bottle, you consider the creator of the Universe evil? You would fight the man that sent his only son to die so that WE, the most undeserving and evil race in the universe, could be saved from Hell? Don't believe me about us being evil? Look up human rights abuse, you'll see what I mean. We don't deserve forgiveness, but we were given it, and here you are saying you would fight the man that wants to save you? No offense, but I think you've read to many comic books stereotyping a greater power as "evil".

Coffin-Breathe, I feel so enlightened by your speaking of us Christians stoning people to death. Thank you, I see everything clearer now! That is to say, I see none of you know a real Christian. Real Christians don't stone people, those were Puritans, and they were banned, remember? Also the KKK, which God is reserving a place for in the deepest pits of hell. Thanks for reminding us all of something I have probably already talked about a hundred times. The truth is, that is a pathetic last stand attempt people use against Christianity but it doesn't even matter because it hasn't been done for a couple hundred years!

Oh, last thing to Bottle; the only reason God would send you to hell is if you didn't repent for your sins. This isn't Old Testament stuff pal, you don't go right to hell for one sin, but you either ask for forgiveness and get into heaven, or you don't and go to hell. And like I said, he warned us, it's technically your choice that you went to Hell. You think you can play chicken with God, but in the end it won't work. God won't change his mind because one person didn't want to say sorry.

Also, to all Islamic people, I would like to say that I am not like the American John McCain style Christian Conservative. As long as your religion respects human rights, your fine by me.

[The Tofu Islands]

That's more than ridiculous. Okay, that's it, I have made a decision; unless anyone who has read THE WHOLE BIBLE and can remember the main points of it, I will not listen to rebuttals.

Most of the people you are arguing with here have probably read the whole Bible.

Also, Satan does exist in the Bible, or did everyone suddenly forget? He isn't powerless, he is the one that put these evil things forward, and it was because of Adam and Eve that the world is so messed up.

Out of curiosity, do you remember who created Satan, allowed em to be in the garden with Adam and Eve, created the tree that they were not allowed to eat from, and acted surprised when the obvious thing happened.

Dyakov, I can no more prove God's existence to you than I can prove that there is wind to you. Obviously it is there, but I can't prove that to someone who doesn't want to believe it.

How is it obvious that God is there?

Bottle, you consider the creator of the Universe evil?

Given the amount of suffering and pain in the universe, it wouldn’t surprise me too much. Especially if this creator happened to actually know that this was happening and had observed it.

You would fight the man that sent his only son to die so that WE, the most undeserving and evil race in the universe, could be saved from Hell?

From a hell that God created, and gave impossible requirements for avoiding.

Don't believe me about us being evil? Look up human rights abuse, you'll see what I mean.

Go read the old testament. Pay special attention to the commands of genocide and mass rape. Those are atrocities that God apparently ordered the Hebrews to do.

We don't deserve forgiveness, but we were given it, and here you are saying you would fight the man that wants to save you?

God arbitrarily decided what the standards for forgiveness are. If E wants us to all be saved, E can.

[Slaytesics]

everyone please stop stringing posts.

[Warkus]

Alright believers. Let's say I'm willing to grant the supernatural entity's existence, that I've had a personal revelation that leads me to say, "I have felt the presence". Which religion should I follow?

Batman.

Join Batmanism where you watch the Jokertanic Joker being owned by thy holy batman.


Sieg Heil Batman (All Hail Batman)

[Callisdrun]

The Christian life is one of the hardest lives (if not the hardest) to live because we suffer for our faith.

I'm really tired of this fucking persecution complex some of you guys have. You suffer for your faith? How? You're the goddamn majority in this country, and most western ones. How is that suffering? How is that hard? You find affirmation and acceptance of your spiritual choice everywhere.

Pagans, like myself, are always assumed to be weird, constantly have to put up with idiots (mostly Christians) claiming we worship the devil, or acting as if our faith isn't as real as theirs. And you think being an X-tian is hard? Give me a fucking break. It's not much better for atheists, either. Like pagans, when quite a few people hear that they don't worship their particular deity, they always want to "save" the atheists, or show them "the light" or whatever. Do you have any idea how obnoxious that is? Similarly, it is very hard to get elected to high office if you're not a Christian. People were up in arms over a Congressman being sworn in on a Koran instead of a bible. It's ridiculous.

What are the chances, right now, of an atheist, a pagan, a muslim, a Jew, or a Hindu being elected president? I'd wager that their chances in such a hypothetical election wouldn't be too great.

So don't give me bullshit about how it's so fucking hard to be a Christian. It isn't.

[Bottle]

The Christian life is one of the hardest lives (if not the hardest) to live because we suffer for our faith.

I'm really tired of this fucking persecution complex some of you guys have. You suffer for your faith? How? You're the goddamn majority in this country, and most western ones. How is that suffering? How is that hard? You find affirmation and acceptance of your spiritual choice everywhere.

Pagans, like myself, are always assumed to be weird, constantly have to put up with idiots (mostly Christians) claiming we worship the devil, or acting as if our faith isn't as real as theirs. And you think being an X-tian is hard? Give me a fucking break. It's not much better for atheists, either. Like pagans, when quite a few people hear that they don't worship their particular deity, they always want to "save" the atheists, or show them "the light" or whatever. Do you have any idea how obnoxious that is? Similarly, it is very hard to get elected to high office if you're not a Christian. People were up in arms over a Congressman being sworn in on a Koran instead of a bible. It's ridiculous.

What are the chances, right now, of an atheist, a pagan, a muslim, a Jew, or a Hindu being elected president? I'd wager that their chances in such a hypothetical election wouldn't be too great.

So don't give me bullshit about how it's so fucking hard to be a Christian. It isn't.

Seconded.

Seriously, Western Christians, kindly shut the fuck up about how hard it is to be a poor, poor oppressed majority. You come across like a pampered rich 13 year old boy whining about how HORRIBLY UNFAIR it is that his mansion-owning parent impose a curfew on him.

Just because you believe in Jesus doesn't mean the world will let you off the hook when you act like a jackass. For instance, when you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that anybody who disagrees with you must not have read the Bible, you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. When you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that you know the nature of God and yet fail to provide ANY SUPPORTS TO BACK YOUR VIEW OVER ANYBODY ELSES (yes we are still at that stage), then you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. No, this is not oppression, and no, your hurt feelings are not a war wound.

[Bottle]

Bottle, you consider the creator of the Universe evil?

I have no evidence that such a being exists, and I'm not arrogant enough to make claims about the nature of something that I don't even know exists. I leave that kind of hubris to the Christians.

You would fight the man that sent his only son to die so that WE, the most undeserving and evil race in the universe, could be saved from Hell?

I would fight anybody who asserts that humanity is an "evil race," and I absolutely would fight anybody who thinks that murdering their children is a solution to their problems.

Well, no, that's not entirely true. In reality, I tend to run the fuck away from people who hold that kind of fucked up belief system. Any person who believes in making human sacrifices in order to atone for somebody's sins is a dangerous psychotic and I want to get away and call the cops as fast as possible.

Don't believe me about us being evil? Look up human rights abuse, you'll see what I mean. We don't deserve forgiveness, but we were given it, and here you are saying you would fight the man that wants to save you? No offense, but I think you've read to many comic books stereotyping a greater power as "evil".

You seem to have some really big blinders on, so let me spell it out for you again:

I don't assume any higher power would have to be evil. I believe that YOUR vision of a higher power is evil. There are plenty of God-images that I think are funny, or nice, or harmless. But yours is evil to me. Deeply, profoundly, intrinsically evil. Any god-view that teaches people to view humanity as dirty and sinful and undeserving of love is, to me, a sick view that encourages hatred, violence, and dangerous behavior. I honestly don't even feel comfortable being in a room alone with people who hold that view, because I don't believe such people can be trusted to behave in a respectful and safe manner.

[Callisdrun]

The Christian life is one of the hardest lives (if not the hardest) to live because we suffer for our faith.

I'm really tired of this fucking persecution complex some of you guys have. You suffer for your faith? How? You're the goddamn majority in this country, and most western ones. How is that suffering? How is that hard? You find affirmation and acceptance of your spiritual choice everywhere.

Pagans, like myself, are always assumed to be weird, constantly have to put up with idiots (mostly Christians) claiming we worship the devil, or acting as if our faith isn't as real as theirs. And you think being an X-tian is hard? Give me a fucking break. It's not much better for atheists, either. Like pagans, when quite a few people hear that they don't worship their particular deity, they always want to "save" the atheists, or show them "the light" or whatever. Do you have any idea how obnoxious that is? Similarly, it is very hard to get elected to high office if you're not a Christian. People were up in arms over a Congressman being sworn in on a Koran instead of a bible. It's ridiculous.

What are the chances, right now, of an atheist, a pagan, a muslim, a Jew, or a Hindu being elected president? I'd wager that their chances in such a hypothetical election wouldn't be too great.

So don't give me bullshit about how it's so fucking hard to be a Christian. It isn't.

Seconded.

Seriously, Western Christians, kindly shut the fuck up about how hard it is to be a poor, poor oppressed majority. You come across like a pampered rich 13 year old boy whining about how HORRIBLY UNFAIR it is that his mansion-owning parent impose a curfew on him.

Just because you believe in Jesus doesn't mean the world will let you off the hook when you act like a jackass. For instance, when you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that anybody who disagrees with you must not have read the Bible, you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. When you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that you know the nature of God and yet fail to provide ANY SUPPORTS TO BACK YOUR VIEW OVER ANYBODY ELSES (yes we are still at that stage), then you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. No, this is not oppression, and no, your hurt feelings are not a war wound.

Thank you.

I'd say I'm normally pretty live and let live about religion; I mean, my chances of being right about spiritual stuff aren't any better than anyone else's, right? But really, people who follow the same religion that the vast majority of the public in this country identify with, including an even greater proportion of its leaders, yet act like they're somehow being horribly oppressed just because not all of us think they're so wonderfully special and automatically accept and/or agree with their beliefs, really get on my nerves sometimes.

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

[Tagmatium]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

The CE thing's a arbituary, though, as it is just swapping some letters to others, whilst keeping the same starting-date.

[Callisdrun]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

The CE thing's a arbituary, though, as it is just swapping some letters to others, whilst keeping the same starting-date.

"AD" is equally arbitrary, and the initials stand for a phrase that is an implicit acceptance of Christianity. Jesus Christ may have had some cool ideas, but he is NOT my lord. The start date is inaccurate to his birth anyway.

[Tagmatium]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

The CE thing's a arbituary, though, as it is just swapping some letters to others, whilst keeping the same starting-date.

"AD" is equally arbitrary, and the initials stand for a phrase that is an implicit acceptance of Christianity. Jesus Christ may have had some cool ideas, but he is NOT my lord. The start date is inaccurate to his birth anyway.

Oh, yeah. I totally agree. But the use of the dates, even with the CE tag, could well be construed as acceptance of Christianity, as that is still when the CE thing starts, unless there's another reason for it being there.

I suppose it's just that I'm still surrounded by AD, and it'd be a bitch to actually change over. I'd probably have to go through a lot of books with Tippex or something

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

What does CE even mean?
I've never heard this term before...

[Callisdrun]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

The CE thing's a arbituary, though, as it is just swapping some letters to others, whilst keeping the same starting-date.

"AD" is equally arbitrary, and the initials stand for a phrase that is an implicit acceptance of Christianity. Jesus Christ may have had some cool ideas, but he is NOT my lord. The start date is inaccurate to his birth anyway.

Oh, yeah. I totally agree. But the use of the dates, even with the CE tag, could well be construed as acceptance of Christianity, as that is still when the CE thing starts, unless there's another reason for it being there.

I suppose it's just that I'm still surrounded by AD, and it'd be a bitch to actually change over. I'd probably have to go through a lot of books with Tippex or something

Christianity is fairly significant historically, at least for Europe. Using it as a historical dividing line isn't what I object to. Only what "AD" actually means. Hence why I won't say it, it would be a lie.

[Callisdrun]

I've even pissed some off by referring to years as (for example) 1066 CE instead of "AD." Some x-tians really need to get over themselves.

What does CE even mean?
I've never heard this term before...

Common Era.

[Tagmatium]

Christianity is fairly significant historically, at least for Europe. Using it as a historical dividing line isn't what I object to. Only what "AD" actually means. Hence why I won't say it, it would be a lie.

I probably don't care, really. I'm not a Christian, but taking issue with it would waste my time and make me look like a twat in lectures.

[Muravyets]

So now officially everyone is a liar? Okay then, I refuse to believe that the world is round until I see it with my own eyes! Please, it's almost as if your saying that every single story about someone having a personal experience with God is a lie. <snip>

No, actually, it's not at all like that. It's more like I said what I said.

[Muravyets]

I have posed this very question several times over the years, and been quite sincere about it. I've sat down with believers and told them that if they can honestly explain to me why I should worship their God then I'll give it all the fair consideration I can.

I've yet to be given any convincing reason to believe in any God. The best most people can come up with is something about the afterlife, but I don't particularly want an afterlife so that's not really a good bargaining chip with me. They sometimes try to threaten me with Hell or something, but that tends to backfire because I'm not willing to worship a being who would torture otherwise-innocent people for all eternity simply because they didn't worship correctly.

How about this reason: Because you want to.

Don't want to? Well, don't do it, then. Frankly, I consider "because I want to/don't want to" to be the first, last, and best reason for doing or not doing anything that is not compulsory.

[Kobrania]

Some people are wierd.

Trying to threaten me with an afterlife of pain when:

A: I am a masochist.
B: I don't believe in life after death.

[UNIverseVERSE]

The Christian life is one of the hardest lives (if not the hardest) to live because we suffer for our faith.

I'm really tired of this fucking persecution complex some of you guys have. You suffer for your faith? How? You're the goddamn majority in this country, and most western ones. How is that suffering? How is that hard? You find affirmation and acceptance of your spiritual choice everywhere.

Pagans, like myself, are always assumed to be weird, constantly have to put up with idiots (mostly Christians) claiming we worship the devil, or acting as if our faith isn't as real as theirs. And you think being an X-tian is hard? Give me a fucking break. It's not much better for atheists, either. Like pagans, when quite a few people hear that they don't worship their particular deity, they always want to "save" the atheists, or show them "the light" or whatever. Do you have any idea how obnoxious that is? Similarly, it is very hard to get elected to high office if you're not a Christian. People were up in arms over a Congressman being sworn in on a Koran instead of a bible. It's ridiculous.

What are the chances, right now, of an atheist, a pagan, a muslim, a Jew, or a Hindu being elected president? I'd wager that their chances in such a hypothetical election wouldn't be too great.

So don't give me bullshit about how it's so fucking hard to be a Christian. It isn't.

Seconded.

Seriously, Western Christians, kindly shut the fuck up about how hard it is to be a poor, poor oppressed majority. You come across like a pampered rich 13 year old boy whining about how HORRIBLY UNFAIR it is that his mansion-owning parent impose a curfew on him.

Just because you believe in Jesus doesn't mean the world will let you off the hook when you act like a jackass. For instance, when you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that anybody who disagrees with you must not have read the Bible, you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. When you arrogantly and ignorantly claim that you know the nature of God and yet fail to provide ANY SUPPORTS TO BACK YOUR VIEW OVER ANYBODY ELSES (yes we are still at that stage), then you're acting like a jackass and people are going to respond accordingly. No, this is not oppression, and no, your hurt feelings are not a war wound.

Thirded, and I am a Christian.