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Why atheists must believe in God

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Len Hyet
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Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:05 am

Shilya wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:I think, therefore I am

Ergo: Even if all of you are figments of my imagination (which must be an absolutely fantastic imagination if I've imagined all this crap) it doesn't matter. I do not need to be sure the object exists, because everything I know tells me it exists.


I think, therefore something thinking is. This "something" might be me.

If, for example, someone dreams of a person who thinks that they are, then the only one existing is still the dreaming person.

Can you tell what someone else is thinking? Of course not. You only know what you are thinking. Ergo, the only person who must be real, is yourself.
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Polski Swiety Imperium
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Postby Polski Swiety Imperium » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:07 am

Just another reason why people will ridicule Christians. My bum is real, if its not, God might not be real. I still believe in him though.
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Shilya
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Postby Shilya » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:08 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Shilya wrote:
I think, therefore something thinking is. This "something" might be me.

If, for example, someone dreams of a person who thinks that they are, then the only one existing is still the dreaming person.

Can you tell what someone else is thinking? Of course not. You only know what you are thinking. Ergo, the only person who must be real, is yourself.


I can't and you can't, but maybe the one who dreams of me and you can. Meaning, your thoughts are not actually your thoughts, your belief that they are is just part of the invention/dream of someone else.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 am

Yorkopolis wrote:I lost track at the part where you said atheists must believe in god.

Let me translate:
"Atheists accept reality, thus they must be Christian because god."

Or something along those lines. I'm not quite sure what the OP was thinking when he posted this thread.

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Len Hyet
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Postby Len Hyet » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 am

Polski Swiety Imperium wrote:Just another reason why people will ridicule Christians Ultra Conservative Amoral Christians. My bum is real, if its not, God might not be real. I still believe in him though.


Most people don't ridicule Christians who don't espouse stupid things like "Gays are evil" or "God hates Fags" or "Evolution is a lie"
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Len Hyet
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Postby Len Hyet » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 am

Shilya wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Can you tell what someone else is thinking? Of course not. You only know what you are thinking. Ergo, the only person who must be real, is yourself.


I can't and you can't, but maybe the one who dreams of me and you can. Meaning, your thoughts are not actually your thoughts, your belief that they are is just part of the invention/dream of someone else.


Oh god

Am I real?

Are any of us real?

I CAN'T HANDLE THIS KIND OF PRESSURE
Last edited by Len Hyet on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Shilya
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Postby Shilya » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:12 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Shilya wrote:
I can't and you can't, but maybe the one who dreams of me and you can. Meaning, your thoughts are not actually your thoughts, your belief that they are is just part of the invention/dream of someone else.


Oh god

Am I real?

Are any of us real?

I CAN'T HANDLE THIS KIND OF PRESSURE


And this is why skepticism leads nowhere.

By the way, to give credit where it's due, my argument isn't actually mine, it's just a rephrasing of Kierkegaard's critique.
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Temujinn
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Postby Temujinn » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:12 am

Phoenixfox wrote:If you ask an atheist why they disavow belief in God, they will undoubtably cite either their reason or science. Here are some thing that need to be around in order for science to make sense. Possibly the most basic of these Absolute truth (Truth being that which conforms to reality)

Science can tell us almost any trait we want to know about anything, it can tell us the size, shape, weight, color, temperature, density and even the molecular structure of an object, but none of these things even matter if we can not be sure that the object even exists. Science is irrelevant if absolute truth does not exist.

The entire study of any science depends on truth being absolute, but their is no atheistic justification for believing in it. It is ironic that those who say their alleged disbelief in God is based on reason have absolutely no reason to believe in the very things on which they base their reason!

What do you think about this line of reasoning? I think it makes a lot of sense.

First, science has nothing to do with Atheism. Absence of proof is the basis for Atheism, nothing more- nothing less.

Truth =/= Fact
Science engages in Facts, not Truths.

I am a christian, I have faith. I reeeealllllyyyy want Atheists to become believers. That being said, I as a flawed human being do not have the ability to give them that which they require, proof. Not a cute argument.
The issue here is that arguments do not count as proof. A sound argument is not evidence for or against something.

Science additionally never deals in true absolutes-- it deals in "facts as presently known", all scientists live with the "this is subject to change" hanging over them, as a matter of fact the joy of science is the very fact that in science anything can be subject to change, that knew understandings based on observations can indeed rewrite the entire scope of what we "know".

You sir, are in absolute error including science in this discussion at all.

These threads are so tiresome.
Last edited by Temujinn on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexannbggg
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Postby Alexannbggg » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 am

RELIGION IS SILLY (THOUGH IT IS VERY INTERESTING)

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Len Hyet
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Postby Len Hyet » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 am

Alexannbggg wrote:RELIGION IS SILLY (THOUGH IT IS VERY INTERESTING)

WHY ARE WE YELLING
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Ragnarum
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Postby Ragnarum » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 am

Temujinn wrote:
Phoenixfox wrote:If you ask an atheist why they disavow belief in God, they will undoubtably cite either their reason or science. Here are some thing that need to be around in order for science to make sense. Possibly the most basic of these Absolute truth (Truth being that which conforms to reality)

Science can tell us almost any trait we want to know about anything, it can tell us the size, shape, weight, color, temperature, density and even the molecular structure of an object, but none of these things even matter if we can not be sure that the object even exists. Science is irrelevant if absolute truth does not exist.

The entire study of any science depends on truth being absolute, but their is no atheistic justification for believing in it. It is ironic that those who say their alleged disbelief in God is based on reason have absolutely no reason to believe in the very things on which they base their reason!

What do you think about this line of reasoning? I think it makes a lot of sense.

First, science has nothing to do with Atheism. Absence of proof is the basis for Atheism, nothing more- nothing less.

Truth =/= Fact
Science engages in Facts, not Truths.


What the actual fuck are you talking about?
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:18 am

Ragnarum wrote:
Temujinn wrote:First, science has nothing to do with Atheism. Absence of proof is the basis for Atheism, nothing more- nothing less.

Truth =/= Fact
Science engages in Facts, not Truths.


What the actual fuck are you talking about?

I don't see what's so confusing about his post.

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Edward Richtofen
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Postby Edward Richtofen » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:19 am

Existence is impossible to grasp a complete understanding of therefor Christian monotheism
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Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

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Ragnarum
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Postby Ragnarum » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:21 am

Divair wrote:
Ragnarum wrote:
What the actual fuck are you talking about?

I don't see what's so confusing about his post.


No, no. I get it now.

I think.

Nevermind.
Last edited by Ragnarum on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Temujinn
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Postby Temujinn » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 am

Divair wrote:
Ragnarum wrote:
What the actual fuck are you talking about?

I don't see what's so confusing about his post.

I thought it was pretty clear, if a little scatter brained and verbose.
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Kyuji
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Postby Kyuji » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 am

Im an atheist and an anti-theist , in otherwords while i believe that there is in fact no god , i do believe in the possibility of a god , and that because it (the judeo-christian-islamic)is a cruel terrible god , it should be hated and fought against rather then worshiped and adored.
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Temujinn
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Postby Temujinn » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:26 am

Ragnarum wrote:
Divair wrote:I don't see what's so confusing about his post.


No, no. I get it now.

I think.

Nevermind.

I see no point in genuinely arguing with the OP, because it would just be an empty argument, and his entire post is based on erroneous premises about both Atheism and Science-- then he just lumps some other shit in and calls it a reason for Atheists to believe. I was merely trying to point him towards the errors in his own assumptions about both Science and Atheism.
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Conserative Morality wrote:Is accusing someone of being a WASP likely to damage their reputation?.... I openly admit that I use it disparagingly. Something about the mentality of the group referred to being rather contrary to American values.
Do you know someone who might be a White Protestant of English ancestry, report them to your block Sargeant CM, and he will drag them before the New House Committee on Un-American Activities. Report your neighbors.

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Death Metal
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Postby Death Metal » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:28 am

By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.
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Edward Richtofen
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Postby Edward Richtofen » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:31 am

Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

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Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

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Nervium
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Postby Nervium » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:54 am

Truth can not be absolute, seeing that "truth" is a difficult concept to grasp, this being especially true for "absolute" truth.
I've retired from the forums.

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Nervium
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Postby Nervium » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:55 am

Edward Richtofen wrote:Existence is impossible to grasp a complete understanding of therefor Christian monotheism


By this statement, existentialism was buried in a silver coffin with a stake through it's heart.
I've retired from the forums.

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The United Brony Armies
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Postby The United Brony Armies » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:04 am

Im not even going to allow myself to get started on this
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Lipnitia
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Postby Lipnitia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:58 pm

I agree with OP. They must at least have one spark of hope that there's a deity somwhere out there. Science can't figure out who we are until this day...
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Postby Kyuji » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:00 pm

Lipnitia wrote:I agree with OP. They must at least have one spark of hope that there's a deity somwhere out there. Science can't figure out who we are until this day...

Hope?
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Hindenburgia
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Postby Hindenburgia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:01 pm

Lipnitia wrote:I agree with OP. They must at least have one spark of hope that there's a deity somwhere out there.

Why's that?
Science can't figure out who we are until this day...

I'm not sure what you mean by this or what relevance it might have. Care to elaborate?
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