Neocons and "fake liberals"

[Genivaria]

You don't know where your money specifically goes. So?

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

Ha! Then the system wouldn't work at all.
The average taxpayer cannot see the big picture, doesn't know everything that's going on and shouldn't have that call.

[European Socialist Republic]

You don't know where your money specifically goes. So?

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

Why?

[Jehovaland]

Totally true, but we should have an opinion on where it goes. Imagine if it went towards something you didn't like such as church building or gun give-aways, you probably wouldn't like it would you? That's how we feel.

If there is an actual beneficial purpose to it then I support it.
How does doing either of those things benefit anyone?

I never said they do benefit anyone, god damn lets not go down that road if you want to be a fake liberal then fine but please dont be saying that other people's points of view aren't useful, how would you feel if you heard that about yourself?

[Genivaria]

If there is an actual beneficial purpose to it then I support it.
How does doing either of those things benefit anyone?

I never said they do benefit anyone, god damn lets not go down that road if you want to be a fake liberal then fine but please dont be saying that other people's points of view aren't useful, how would you feel if you heard that about yourself?

Please start making sense.

[Jehovaland]

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

Ha! Then the system wouldn't work at all.
The average taxpayer cannot see the big picture, doesn't know everything that's going on and shouldn't have that call.

I'm suprised this is coming from someone who is the leader of an inoffensive centrist DEMOCRACY

[Fartsniffage]

You don't know where your money specifically goes. So?

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

You do get to choose. It's called an election.

[Tsiryli]

Theoretically, your tax money goes into everything the government does if you break it down by percentages. If everyone poured a glass of water into a big tank, and then that tank was used to irrigate a field of vegetables, you would be watering every single one proportionate to how much water you contributed. If there are carrots and potatoes in that field, and you don't like carrots but you love potatoes, then I guess you'll have to deal with it. But hey, you might be able to appreciate the fact that someone who's allergic to potatoes but can eat carrots is able to not starve to death.

That's a bit of an exaggerated metaphor, but you have to understand that taxes aren't collected to benefit one particular person or group of people (theoretically, anyway, because corruption exists), they're collected as a means of providing services to all of society, even if there are some parts of it that have no use for one or more of the services.

[Quintium]

Following that logic every government in the world is authoritarian...

Yes, that's absolutely correct. There's no black and white, just a thousand shades of grey. Or fifty, whatever floats your boat.
What I want is a shade that's as light as possible - keep the government small, non-intrusive and make sure it's the people's servant, not their master.

No, authoritarianism is certainly atrocious regardless of who the authoritarian is, but an authoritarian who pursues progressive measures most certainly is better than one who supports conservative ones.

Well, that's what you think, and that's part of the problem. You, along with your conservative counterparts, fight over the state so that you can make the state bully others into carrying out your point of view. That's a shame.

[Threlizdun]

You don't know where your money specifically goes. So?

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

I'm sure you have a brilliant plan on how to do this right? I'm also sure you will have no problem with neo-nazis and Klan members directing their taxes to racial purity tests, Islamists funding the establishment of sharia law, and rapists having funds go towards the construction of their basement sex dungeon. Literally anyone with any terrible opinion is free to do whatever they want with their tax money under your terrible proposal. It is far more authoritarian an idea than forcing people to pay for something they don't want.

[Genivaria]

Ha! Then the system wouldn't work at all.
The average taxpayer cannot see the big picture, doesn't know everything that's going on and shouldn't have that call.

I'm suprised this is coming from someone who is the leader of an inoffensive centrist DEMOCRACY

You must be new here.
General is OOC.

[Providence and Port Hope]

[deleted]

[Meryuma]

Here I thought this was going to be about some liberals being 'fake' for supporting interventionism like Neocons.

I think it is, it's just very poorly explained.

[Divair]

Ha! Then the system wouldn't work at all.
The average taxpayer cannot see the big picture, doesn't know everything that's going on and shouldn't have that call.

I'm suprised this is coming from someone who is the leader of an inoffensive centrist DEMOCRACY

This is highly amusing.

[Jehovaland]

Theoretically, your tax money goes into everything the government does if you break it down by percentages. If everyone poured a glass of water into a big tank, and then that tank was used to irrigate a field of vegetables, you would be watering every single one proportionate to how much water you contributed. If there are carrots and potatoes in that field, and you don't like carrots but you love potatoes, then I guess you'll have to deal with it. But hey, you might be able to appreciate the fact that someone who's allergic to potatoes but can eat carrots is able to not starve to death.

That's a bit of an exaggerated metaphor, but you have to understand that taxes aren't collected to benefit one particular person or group of people (theoretically, anyway, because corruption exists), they're collected as a means of providing services to all of society, even if there are some parts of it that have no use for one or more of the services.

See this is someone that makes sense so let's make this as civilized as possible. Using your example, why cant people just plant what they want in they're own garden instead of having to collect crops from the one garden?

[Tsiryli]

I'm suprised this is coming from someone who is the leader of an inoffensive centrist DEMOCRACY

You must be new here.
General is OOC.

Despite the fact that such a comment is uncalled for in the general discussion boards, many people's nation descriptors reflect their actual views in some degree. But not always.

[The Corparation]

I'm suprised this is coming from someone who is the leader of an inoffensive centrist DEMOCRACY

You must be new here.
General is OOC.

And its also important to note that how most people answer issues NS has little to do with their actual beliefs.

[Quintium]

Obama is the epitome of fake liberalism.

Well, essentially, Obama is just like Bush. He feels that the state should exist to carry out his plans, including the more intolerant ones.
The only difference is where they're intolerant.

[Ainin]

I'm sure with the liberal majority in NS (both real and fake, I'd say half and half) I see that almost everyone understands what a neocon is.

Yes.

But let's define a "fake" liberal, this describes people who desire an authoritarian regime on the left-wing spectrum.

Umm... An authoritarian communist (in contrast to a libertarian communist)?

A real liberal is someone who wants more social and civil rights on the left-wing spectrum, a good example would be to allow freedom of speech and keeping government out of our lives.

OK...

North Korea is a model for fake liberals, wanting to invade others with drones and funding the killings of coptic christians.

Source?

Is there a difference between neocons and communists?

No*.

Are people like Obama and Hillary Clinton fake liberals?

No, they're social liberals.

* Sarcasm

[Threlizdun]

Following that logic every government in the world is authoritarian...

Yes, that's absolutely correct. There's no black and white, just a thousand shades of grey. Or fifty, whatever floats your boat.
What I want is a shade that's as light as possible - keep the government small, non-intrusive and make sure it's the people's servant, not their master.

No, authoritarianism is certainly atrocious regardless of who the authoritarian is, but an authoritarian who pursues progressive measures most certainly is better than one who supports conservative ones.

Well, that's what you think, and that's part of the problem. You, along with your conservative counterparts, fight over the state so that you can make the state bully others into carrying out your point of view. That's a shame.

You do not get to change your mind within the same post. Either its a black and white issue with no room for compromise, or some policies are better than other. By your own logic a progressive authoritarian society is better than a conservative one.

[The Corparation]

Obama is the epitome of fake liberalism.

Well, essentially, Obama is just like Bush. He feels that the state should exist to carry out his plans, including the more intolerant ones.
The only difference is where they're intolerant.

I wasn't aware that Obama was super villain making plans for intolerance world wide.

[Liriena]

What the hell is this?

[Skeckoa]

Obama is the epitome of fake liberalism.

Well, essentially, Obama is just like Bush. He feels that the state should exist to carry out his plans, including the more intolerant ones.
The only difference is where they're intolerant.

Well said there good sir... or ma'am.

[Jehovaland]

You made my day anyway that's exactly what any neocon/fake liberal would say, I have no problem with taxes but let me choose where it goes.

I'm sure you have a brilliant plan on how to do this right? I'm also sure you will have no problem with neo-nazis and Klan members directing their taxes to racial purity tests, Islamists funding the establishment of sharia law, and rapists having funds go towards the construction of their basement sex dungeon. Literally anyone with any terrible opinion is free to do whatever they want with their tax money under your terrible proposal. It is far more authoritarian an idea than forcing people to pay for something they don't want.

The majority would never favor those people.

[Quintium]

You do not get to change your mind within the same post. Either its a black and white issue with no room for compromise, or some policies are better than other. By your own logic a progressive authoritarian society is better than a conservative one.

Personally, I'm very conservative. In my personal sphere, I wouldn't accept abortion or junkies or anything like that. However, I don't think the state should force people to live by my rules. My house? Mine. My land? Mine. My business? Mine. My social life? Mine. I'm not in favour of any policies - even conservative ones - that intrude unnecessarily on the personal freedoms of others.

[Threlizdun]

Obama is the epitome of fake liberalism.

Well, essentially, Obama is just like Bush. He feels that the state should exist to carry out his plans, including the more intolerant ones.
The only difference is where they're intolerant.

He's a damn politician. It's his job to get the state to carry out his plans. I'm a a damn anarchist and I can still accept that this is the world we currently live in and that we ought to use the state for good if it is to exist.