Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[United commonwealth of ayrshire]

I think what we have to remember is that here in Britain we only allowed homosexuals TOTAL equality only earlier this year, and that of course some priests still refuse to marry them and a large amount of people still feel either prejudiced or disgusted by homosexuality.
Russia are just a bit behind us, they'll catch up in their own time. I don't think it's such an issue that we should boycott the world's most famous winter sports event over it.
Why not boycott the southern US states that still class homosexuality as illegal. And there are many of them. There are also plenty of countries who would actually KILL people for being homosexual! These countries include Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Somaliland and parts of Nigeria. This is a more pressing problem. Boycott these countries, and most importantly, do NOT support the Saudi Arabian interests in Syria!

[Zapato]

Yeah, don't criticize , you might 'disappoint' some random guy on an internet forum! Seriously, how is opposing anti-gay laws having a 'cold war mentality'? Do you think any criticism of Russia is having a 'cold war mentality'? Should we be forbidden from criticizing Russia lest we offend your oh-so-delicate feelings?

How rude.

Problem is not about opposing, I'm talking about the way in which individuals are opposing.

Maybe I was expecting too much from LGBT people to refrain from acting like bigots?

Yeah, the important part is that LGBT people are not rude when they oppose what Russia is doing. The best way to go about it is to make reasonable arguments about equality (illegal in Russia), inform the public about the facts (illegal in Russia), create an awareness campaign (illegal in Russia), demonstrate how gay parents are able to take care of children in a normal and healthy manner (illegal in Russia), and then beg the authorities to please respect the rights they already have and to not errode them further.

Don't be rude, guys. Just politely beg for your basic human rights, and perhaps the request will be taken into consideration at some unknown point in time.

[West Faristan2]

Yeah, don't criticize , you might 'disappoint' some random guy on an internet forum! Seriously, how is opposing anti-gay laws having a 'cold war mentality'? Do you think any criticism of Russia is having a 'cold war mentality'? Should we be forbidden from criticizing Russia lest we offend your oh-so-delicate feelings?

How rude.

Problem is not about opposing, I'm talking about the way in which individuals are opposing.

Maybe I was expecting too much from LGBT people to refrain from acting like bigots?

Human rights violators are people too!

[Liriena]

I think what we have to remember is that here in Britain we only allowed homosexuals TOTAL equality only earlier this year, and that of course some priests still refuse to marry them and a large amount of people still feel either prejudiced or disgusted by homosexuality.
Russia are just a bit behind us, they'll catch up in their own time. I don't think it's such an issue that we should boycott the world's most famous winter sports event over it.
Why not boycott the southern US states that still class homosexuality as illegal. And there are many of them. There are also plenty of countries who would actually KILL people for being homosexual! These countries include Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Somaliland and parts of Nigeria. This is a more pressing problem. Boycott these countries, and most importantly, do NOT support the Saudi Arabian interests in Syria!

Tu quoque is not a valid argument.

Also, I kindly recommend that you don't lie.

- Homosexuality is no longer illegal in any American states (Lawrence v Texas).
-Russia is not "just a bit behind us". The Russian Federation has violated the freedom of speech of LGBT people and pro-LGBT advocates, on top of already acting as if anti-LGBT violence was not an issue. Turkey, Albania and Vietnam are more LGBT-friendly than Russia right now. Let that thought sink in.
- No reason why the international community cannot multitask and simultaneously condemn Russia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Mauritania, Somaliland, Nigeria and all other nations that oppress LGBT people.

[Shofercia]

How rude.

Problem is not about opposing, I'm talking about the way in which individuals are opposing.

Maybe I was expecting too much from LGBT people to refrain from acting like bigots?

Yeah, the important part is that LGBT people are not rude when they oppose what Russia is doing. The best way to go about it is to make reasonable arguments about equality (illegal in Russia), inform the public about the facts (illegal in Russia), create an awareness campaign (illegal in Russia), demonstrate how gay parents are able to take care of children in a normal and healthy manner (illegal in Russia), and then beg the authorities to please respect the rights they already have and to not errode them further.

Don't be rude, guys. Just politely beg for your basic human rights, and perhaps the request will be taken into consideration at some unknown point in time.

But hey, go ahead and make fun of Srboslavija for repeating what MLK Jr said. After all, what does he know, he only led the most successful Civil Rights Movement in World History...

[San-Silvacian]

Yeah, the important part is that LGBT people are not rude when they oppose what Russia is doing. The best way to go about it is to make reasonable arguments about equality (illegal in Russia), inform the public about the facts (illegal in Russia), create an awareness campaign (illegal in Russia), demonstrate how gay parents are able to take care of children in a normal and healthy manner (illegal in Russia), and then beg the authorities to please respect the rights they already have and to not errode them further.

Don't be rude, guys. Just politely beg for your basic human rights, and perhaps the request will be taken into consideration at some unknown point in time.

But hey, go ahead and make fun of Srboslavija for repeating what MLK Jr said. After all, what does he know, he only led the most successful Civil Rights Movement in World History...

he dun know nut'in.

[West Faristan2]

Yeah, the important part is that LGBT people are not rude when they oppose what Russia is doing. The best way to go about it is to make reasonable arguments about equality (illegal in Russia), inform the public about the facts (illegal in Russia), create an awareness campaign (illegal in Russia), demonstrate how gay parents are able to take care of children in a normal and healthy manner (illegal in Russia), and then beg the authorities to please respect the rights they already have and to not errode them further.

Don't be rude, guys. Just politely beg for your basic human rights, and perhaps the request will be taken into consideration at some unknown point in time.

But hey, go ahead and make fun of Srboslavija for repeating what MLK Jr said. After all, what does he know, he only led the most successful Civil Rights Movement in World History...

And that whistling sound you hear is the point sailing majestically over Shoffie's stupid little head.

[West Faristan2]

Yeah, the important part is that LGBT people are not rude when they oppose what Russia is doing. The best way to go about it is to make reasonable arguments about equality (illegal in Russia), inform the public about the facts (illegal in Russia), create an awareness campaign (illegal in Russia), demonstrate how gay parents are able to take care of children in a normal and healthy manner (illegal in Russia), and then beg the authorities to please respect the rights they already have and to not errode them further.

Don't be rude, guys. Just politely beg for your basic human rights, and perhaps the request will be taken into consideration at some unknown point in time.

But hey, go ahead and make fun of Srboslavija for repeating what MLK Jr said. After all, what does he know, he only led the most successful Civil Rights Movement in World History...

And that whistling sound you hear is the point sailing majestically over Shoffie's stupid little head.

[Urmanian]

Putin: I do not discriminate against gay people, I give them prizes!
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/04/putin_i ... em_prizes/

Vladimir Putin Says Gay People Are Not Discriminated Against In Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09 ... 64036.html

No, Putin, we are not that stupid.

The day after Putin claimed LGBT citizens to be fully equal in rights with other Russian citizens, an United Russia parliamentary has proposed a bill that could be used to deny gay parents custody over their children.

"According to state-owned media outlet Russia Today, Zhuravlev's explanatory note on the proposed amendment says the "non-traditional sexual orientation of one or both parents would become sufficient reason to deprive both of them of their parental rights."

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

[Regnum Dominae]

The day after Putin claimed LGBT citizens to be fully equal in rights with other Russian citizens, an United Russia parliamentary has proposed a bill that could be used to deny gay parents custody over their children.

"According to state-owned media outlet Russia Today, Zhuravlev's explanatory note on the proposed amendment says the "non-traditional sexual orientation of one or both parents would become sufficient reason to deprive both of them of their parental rights."[/quote]


That is just beyond idiotic.

[Quebec and Atlantic Canada]

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

You really won't understand half of what he's saying re: Russian policies and why he's saying it until you realize he's a Putinist stenographer.

[Shofercia]

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

You really won't understand half of what he's saying re: Russian policies and why he's saying it until you realize he's a Putinist stenographer.

Which is exactly why I'm opposing Putin when it comes to LGBT Rights, and why I opposed Putin on Libya... Oh wait, that makes no sense. Nor does anything else you say about me, but hey, I'm used to it by now.

[Shofercia]

Putin: I do not discriminate against gay people, I give them prizes!
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/04/putin_i ... em_prizes/

Vladimir Putin Says Gay People Are Not Discriminated Against In Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09 ... 64036.html

No, Putin, we are not that stupid.

The day after Putin claimed LGBT citizens to be fully equal in rights with other Russian citizens, an United Russia parliamentary has proposed a bill that could be used to deny gay parents custody over their children.

"According to state-owned media outlet Russia Today, Zhuravlev's explanatory note on the proposed amendment says the "non-traditional sexual orientation of one or both parents would become sufficient reason to deprive both of them of their parental rights."

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

My point is that this is very wrong, and it's not something I'm going to apologize for. I'm discussing tactics on how to stop it, not whether or not Putin's in the right. When it comes to LGBT Issue, he's clearly in the wrong.

(Image)

But hey, go ahead and make fun of Srboslavija for repeating what MLK Jr said. After all, what does he know, he only led the most successful Civil Rights Movement in World History...

And that whistling sound you hear is the point sailing majestically over Shoffie's stupid little head.

Srboslavija: hey, we should fight like MLK Jr. did
Zapato: illegal in Russia
Me: that punished by jail time in the US too, and it worked!
You: lol Shof, u b stoopid

Please don't flamebait. If you have an argument, say it. If you don't, then please don't bother posting. It's neither wanted nor welcome.

[Transnapastain]

Snip

And that whistling sound you hear is the point sailing majestically over Shoffie's stupid little head.

Surely, by now, you know better than to make personal attacks against posters? In fact, I know this has been made clear to you. You might really want to reconsider your posting habits, or you'll find yourself sans this nation..

[Scholencia]

Putin: I do not discriminate against gay people, I give them prizes!
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/04/putin_i ... em_prizes/

Vladimir Putin Says Gay People Are Not Discriminated Against In Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09 ... 64036.html

No, Putin, we are not that stupid.

The day after Putin claimed LGBT citizens to be fully equal in rights with other Russian citizens, an United Russia parliamentary has proposed a bill that could be used to deny gay parents custody over their children.

"According to state-owned media outlet Russia Today, Zhuravlev's explanatory note on the proposed amendment says the "non-traditional sexual orientation of one or both parents would become sufficient reason to deprive both of them of their parental rights."

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

Russia is based on christian values and principles, so there is nothing wrong is dont allow gay marriges; it only worth that gays are not percecuted there which they are not.

[Regnum Dominae]

The day after Putin claimed LGBT citizens to be fully equal in rights with other Russian citizens, an United Russia parliamentary has proposed a bill that could be used to deny gay parents custody over their children.

"According to state-owned media outlet Russia Today, Zhuravlev's explanatory note on the proposed amendment says the "non-traditional sexual orientation of one or both parents would become sufficient reason to deprive both of them of their parental rights."

I can kind of understand Shofercia's point (even though it often comes off to me as simply apologetic) but when I see stuff like this I become less and less convinced that one can fix gay rights in Russia by begging on their fours with "respect and understanding of Russian culture" as he suggests.

Russia is based on christian values and principles, so there is nothing wrong is dont allow gay marriges; it only worth that gays are not percecuted there which they are not.

This is not comprehensible. What do you even mean?

[Scholencia]

I mean that gays are ok in Russia since nobody is persecute them for being gay (of course gay marriages are not human rights).

Also, homosexuality is really un-slavic.

[Regnum Dominae]

I mean that gays are ok in Russia since nobody is persecute them for being gay (of course gay marriages are not human rights).

Hahahahahahahahaha. No.

Russia's actions are legitimately horrifying at this point.

The Russian government's new law condemning so-called gay propaganda has now encouraged people to report their LGBT neighbors to local authorities.

A notice allegedly from the government says any person who suspects that a neighbor or tenant disseminates "homosexual propaganda" should contact the police immediately, Gay Star News and O-Blog-Dee-O-Blog-Da report.

"Increase your vigilance when you talk to your neighbors, when you are checking your mail and in elevators," the notice says, according to a translation. "You can easily become a target of homosexual propaganda. There is one step from being homosexual and to start propaganda of homosexualism and molesting decent people."

[...]

http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news ... ples-homes

Also, homosexuality is really un-slavic.

No true Scotsman much?

[Scholencia]

banning gay propaganda =/= discriminating gays

There are a lot gay bares in Moscow, and the police or the authorities are not even attacking people that in these bars.

No true Scotsman? Why is so hard to understand that homosexuality is very un-slavic. It is something that is imposed on slavic countries by western imperialists.

[Regnum Dominae]

banning gay propaganda =/= discriminating gays

So spying on gay neighbors to the police is not discrimination about gays?

There are a lot gay bares in Moscow, and the police or the authorities are not even attacking people that in these bars.

Discrimination isn't always violent.

And I really hope you aren't saying that people in gay bars should be attacked.

No true Scotsman? Why is so hard to understand that homosexuality is very un-slavic. It is something that is imposed on slavic countries by western imperialists.

Bullshit. Stop lying.

[Shofercia]

I mean that gays are ok in Russia since nobody is persecute them for being gay (of course gay marriages are not human rights).

That's the problem with this law, is that it allows the Government to prosecute Gays. If this law said absolutely nothing about Gay Prosecution, it wouldn't have drawn such a massive outcry.

[Scholencia]

I mean that gays are ok in Russia since nobody is persecute them for being gay (of course gay marriages are not human rights).

That's the problem with this law, is that it allows the Government to prosecute Gays. If this law said absolutely nothing about Gay Prosecution, it wouldn't have drawn such a massive outcry.

Let us be honest, where there any gays 50years ago in Eastern Europe? No, there was not. The suddenly flock of homos in Eastern Europe is the result of liberal propaganda. My point is that homosexuality is very un-slavic.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

That's the problem with this law, is that it allows the Government to prosecute Gays. If this law said absolutely nothing about Gay Prosecution, it wouldn't have drawn such a massive outcry.

Let us be honest, where there any gays 50years ago in Eastern Europe? No, there was not. The suddenly flock of homos in Eastern Europe is the result of liberal propaganda. My point is that homosexuality is very un-slavic.

Source?
(And actually, I think someone a few pages back had a point about the Russian court under the Czar being pretty gay)

[Shofercia]

That's the problem with this law, is that it allows the Government to prosecute Gays. If this law said absolutely nothing about Gay Prosecution, it wouldn't have drawn such a massive outcry.

Let us be honest, where there any gays 50years ago in Eastern Europe? No, there was not. The suddenly flock of homos in Eastern Europe is the result of liberal propaganda. My point is that homosexuality is very un-slavic.

Let me flip that: were there many Christians in Eastern Europe, 50 years ago? Nope, because most of us didn't declare it officially. Same thing with Gays.

Now, you know what's un-Slavic? Declaring certain things un-Slavic that pose no harm to Slavs

Gay oppression is a remnant of Stalinism. It's certainly nice to see people awake to the struggle of Gays in Russia, and criticize Russia for it. It is! I just wish they awoke in the early 1990s, when other remnants of Stalinism were rearing their ugly heads. Speaking of which, you know what else is very un-Slavic? Stalinism. And by Stalinism, I mean the Purges, Gulags and Collectivization, not the other good stuff Stalin had, like the Five Year Plans, etc.

[Scholencia]

banning gay propaganda =/= discriminating gays

So spying on gay neighbors to the police is not discrimination about gays?

But... but.. governments and people are sping people also for various reasons, you know that is you would complain if a neighbour reported you to the police for consuming marihuana or drugs. Now, according to you, you would complain why people are reporting junkies to the police.


So, you have obvious evidence that gays are tolerated yet it is still discrimination? But, in that case christian are discriminated by western media.

I am not lying, it is a fact. There was no gays in Russia 20 years ago. The western liberals just said a message "you feeling, moral is relative. Do what ever you want"