Christian Discussion Thread III

[Menassa]

un·law·ful
ˌənˈlôfəl/
adjective
not conforming to, permitted by, or recognized by law or rules.

Christianity has its own set of laws and rules.

The Bible doesn't specifically state whether it means murder as kill in general, or unlawfully kill.

That's switching the point my friend, so it is assumed then that you admit abortion would be murder if Christian Law stated it was murder?

[Socialist Czechia]

Just a few abortions, condoms or kids born in vitro, and christians are in total rage...

It will be funny when we start with cloning, DNA advancement technologies and technological augmentations (when people start to replace own healthy body parts by artificial one's).

Love for Amish. At least they have own little piece of world without oppressing others to respect their divine autoritah
Yes. That's a good idea. Who thinks this civilisation is more and more godless and evil, just GTFO and start own communities. And don't bother, pls.

[Daenemark]

The Bible doesn't specifically state whether it means murder as kill in general, or unlawfully kill.

That's switching the point my friend, so it is assumed then that you admit abortion would be murder if Christian Law stated it was murder?

not really, that was kind of my point all along, and ya.

my point is that nothing is 100% clear, people can always use different interpretations or ways of looking at things to defend their beliefs. if u feel that abortion is wrong and you can back it up with scriptural evidence, then you can do that. but if you don't think it's necessarily wrong, or u think free will is more important than what you think someone should do with their own body, then you can back it up with different ideas/lack of evidence.

[Dangelia]

Just a few abortions, condoms or kids born in vitro, and christians are in total rage...

It will be funny when we start with cloning, DNA advancement technologies and technological augmentations (when people start to replace own healthy body parts by artificial one's).

Love for Amish. At least they have own little piece of world without oppressing others to respect their divine autoritah
Yes. That's a good idea. Who thinks this civilisation is more and more godless and evil, just GTFO and start own communities. And don't bother, pls.

Well, that totally wasn't mean

[Daenemark]

Just a few abortions, condoms or kids born in vitro, and christians are in total rage...

It will be funny when we start with cloning, DNA advancement technologies and technological augmentations (when people start to replace own healthy body parts by artificial one's).

Love for Amish. At least they have own little piece of world without oppressing others to respect their divine autoritah
Yes. That's a good idea. Who thinks this civilisation is more and more godless and evil, just GTFO and start own communities. And don't bother, pls.

you're going way overboard, dude. this thread isn't for hating on people.

[Socialist Czechia]

Why do you insist that those few human cells are so "sacred"? It is a chemical process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are chemical processes and nothing more.

You really aren't helping your argument here.

Yes, I am. If he DID read enough a science books, he would know that we are not so special creatures and our life and death is nothing comparing to whole nature, Earth, Solar system or Universe itself.

So starting wars, even flame wars on forum about it makes no sense, since we should be all just glad to be still alive and relatively happy, not keep bitching about every damn life's detail.

Or cell, in this case.

[Socialist Czechia]

Just a few abortions, condoms or kids born in vitro, and christians are in total rage...

It will be funny when we start with cloning, DNA advancement technologies and technological augmentations (when people start to replace own healthy body parts by artificial one's).

Love for Amish. At least they have own little piece of world without oppressing others to respect their divine autoritah
Yes. That's a good idea. Who thinks this civilisation is more and more godless and evil, just GTFO and start own communities. And don't bother, pls.

Well, that totally wasn't mean

Trust me, that was very decent opinion coming from oldschool hardcore marxist-leninist who can even respect Stalin

[The Orson Empire]

Just a few abortions, condoms or kids born in vitro, and christians are in total rage...

It will be funny when we start with cloning, DNA advancement technologies and technological augmentations (when people start to replace own healthy body parts by artificial one's).

Love for Amish. At least they have own little piece of world without oppressing others to respect their divine autoritah
Yes. That's a good idea. Who thinks this civilisation is more and more godless and evil, just GTFO and start own communities. And don't bother, pls.

Well, that totally wasn't mean

That's NSG for you. But, in reality, that is the entire internet. People are going to spout opinions you don't like.

[Menassa]

That's switching the point my friend, so it is assumed then that you admit abortion would be murder if Christian Law stated it was murder?

not really, that was kind of my point all along, and ya.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I thought your point was that abortion can't be murder if it's legal.

my point is that nothing is 100% clear, people can always use different interpretations or ways of looking at things to defend their beliefs. if u feel that abortion is wrong and you can back it up with scriptural evidence, then you can do that. but if you don't think it's necessarily wrong, or u think free will is more important than what you think someone should do with their own body, then you can back it up with different ideas/lack of evidence.

That's an entirely different point than what I interpreted you saying, and perhaps even what I was lead to believe.

In fact, that's an entirely different conversation.

[Angleter]

You really aren't helping your argument here.

Yes, I am. If he DID read enough a science books, he would know that we are not so special creatures and our life and death is nothing comparing to whole nature, Earth, Solar system or Universe itself.

So starting wars, even flame wars on forum about it makes no sense, since we should be all just glad to be still alive and relatively happy, not keep bitching about every damn life's detail.

Or cell, in this case.

It's just I've never seen someone try to justify abortion by saying that "those few human cells" and born humans are essentially the same.

[Dangelia]

Well, that totally wasn't mean

Trust me, that was very decent opinion coming from oldschool hardcore marxist-leninist who can even respect Stalin

Ha! You make a point there.

[Socialist Czechia]

you're going way overboard, dude. this thread isn't for hating on people.

well, perhaps I shouldn't listen Two Steps From Hell soundtracks when I am on such a topic...

but since I am no supporter of political correctness, better to be honest, say what I think. my people takes 'freedom of speech' very literally. nothing is 'sacred' or 'taboo' and no one has right to be insulted cry baby, just by anyone's opinion, since it would means he try to take someone's part of freedom just because he can't withstand another opinion.

[The Norgan Alliance]

You really aren't helping your argument here.

Yes, I am. If he DID read enough a science books, he would know that we are not so special creatures and our life and death is nothing comparing to whole nature, Earth, Solar system or Universe itself.

So starting wars, even flame wars on forum about it makes no sense, since we should be all just glad to be still alive and relatively happy, not keep bitching about every damn life's detail.

Or cell, in this case.

Please don't mind me barging in, but this is a logical falacy.

Whether or not we're significant or not is completely irrelevant to the argument.

[Socialist Czechia]

Yes, I am. If he DID read enough a science books, he would know that we are not so special creatures and our life and death is nothing comparing to whole nature, Earth, Solar system or Universe itself.

So starting wars, even flame wars on forum about it makes no sense, since we should be all just glad to be still alive and relatively happy, not keep bitching about every damn life's detail.

Or cell, in this case.

It's just I've never seen someone try to justify abortion by saying that "those few human cells" and born humans are essentially the same.

Since so many genocides, even today still succeeding genocides, proved that even born, mature humans are often in lethal danger despite all government's trying, serial killers can be anywhere, people in hospitals dying for mistreatments in thousands, not even mentioning cars or guns, it's kinda ridiculous to stone doctors by words like 'murder' (or stone them by actual stones) for few undeveloped cells with no autonomous functions.
Fanatics who thinks that one hour after sex creature inside is a human with all rights, should start to make this world more safe in the first place.
Go to Syria and Iraq, if you want to safe innocent lives!

[Socialist Czechia]

Yes, I am. If he DID read enough a science books, he would know that we are not so special creatures and our life and death is nothing comparing to whole nature, Earth, Solar system or Universe itself.

So starting wars, even flame wars on forum about it makes no sense, since we should be all just glad to be still alive and relatively happy, not keep bitching about every damn life's detail.

Or cell, in this case.

Please don't mind me barging in, but this is a logical falacy.

Whether or not we're significant or not is completely irrelevant to the argument.

If Christians believe that we were created by a God like his children, his chosen creatures with some special treatments, which were chosen to live on world created by same God and living by His rules, significance is very relevant to the problem's true core.

People believing in any 'one true God' apparently cannot deal with fact that we are all unimportant, not special and life's only purpose is life itself, and many things they often despise, not just abortion-hate, are obviously connected with it.

[Daenemark]

not really, that was kind of my point all along, and ya.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, I thought your point was that abortion can't be murder if it's legal.

my point is that nothing is 100% clear, people can always use different interpretations or ways of looking at things to defend their beliefs. if u feel that abortion is wrong and you can back it up with scriptural evidence, then you can do that. but if you don't think it's necessarily wrong, or u think free will is more important than what you think someone should do with their own body, then you can back it up with different ideas/lack of evidence.

That's an entirely different point than what I interpreted you saying, and perhaps even what I was lead to believe.

In fact, that's an entirely different conversation.

it was in the back of my head while i was writing on here. my point isn't to 'prove that abortion is right/wrong', it was to show that it's not 100% clear either way.

[The Flood]

The law is objectively wrong, and a crime against the human race.

Again, this goes back to the separation of church and state. I may be a Christian, but I cannot make my religion the law.

Being pro-choice and being a Christian are mutually exclusive.

[Daenemark]

Again, this goes back to the separation of church and state. I may be a Christian, but I cannot make my religion the law.

Being pro-choice and being a Christian are mutually exclusive.

wrong

[The Flood]

That's switching the point my friend, so it is assumed then that you admit abortion would be murder if Christian Law stated it was murder?

not really, that was kind of my point all along, and ya.
my point is that nothing is 100% clear, people can always use different interpretations or ways of looking at things to defend their beliefs. if u feel that abortion is wrong and you can back it up with scriptural evidence, then you can do that. but if you don't think it's necessarily wrong, or u think free will is more important than what you think someone should do with their own body, then you can back it up with different ideas/lack of evidence.

If one were to think free will is more important then preventing murder, one must think that there should be no laws at all, since free will is evidently more important then a civilized society.

[Distruzio]

It could've been Anglican and EO, but they changed.
But schisms could easily be healed with the other Eastern Churches.

That would have been quite ironic, a Church that separated from the Catholic Church for 500 years joins the Orthodox Church

They're closer to us than they are the Romans.

[The Norgan Alliance]

Please don't mind me barging in, but this is a logical falacy.

Whether or not we're significant or not is completely irrelevant to the argument.

If Christians believe that we were created by a God like his children, his chosen creatures with some special treatments, which were chosen to live on world created by same God and living by His rules, significance is very relevant to the problem's true core.

People believing in any 'one true God' apparently cannot deal with fact that we are all unimportant, not special and life's only purpose is life itself, and many things they often despise, not just abortion-hate, are obviously connected with it.

Would you be okay if we TG'd this out? This is on topic right now but I think things are headed south for winter.

[Socialist Czechia]

If one were to think free will is more important then preventing murder, one must think that there should be no laws at all, since free will is evidently more important then a civilized society.

You can not have civilized society without free will, hence you should re-evaluate your opinions if you are against or for tyranny.

Not allowing abortions is tyranny, no matter by which you will try to argue. You can not change this simple fact. It is a tyranny to take a choice from women. Period.

If Christians believe that we were created by a God like his children, his chosen creatures with some special treatments, which were chosen to live on world created by same God and living by His rules, significance is very relevant to the problem's true core.

People believing in any 'one true God' apparently cannot deal with fact that we are all unimportant, not special and life's only purpose is life itself, and many things they often despise, not just abortion-hate, are obviously connected with it.

Would you be okay if we TG'd this out? This is on topic right now but I think things are headed south for winter.

But I am so better by every part! When I started few years ago, I could produce just insults and normal common boring flame war hate.
Now, it's very sophisticated and civilized.

Though I am sure what local democratic christians would do, to such an evil satanist communist daemon spawn like me, if they met me in the real world

[Distruzio]

Please don't mind me barging in, but this is a logical falacy.

Whether or not we're significant or not is completely irrelevant to the argument.

If Christians believe that we were created by a God like his children, his chosen creatures with some special treatments, which were chosen to live on world created by same God and living by His rules, significance is very relevant to the problem's true core.

People believing in any 'one true God' apparently cannot deal with fact that we are all unimportant, not special and life's only purpose is life itself, and many things they often despise, not just abortion-hate, are obviously connected with it.

If that's what you get out of Christian theology then you aren't paying attention.

The reality is that believing in an all powerful all knowing God deliberately reveals the insignificance of man to the Christian mind. It's central to our belief system. We don't believe that mankind is special. We believe that mankind is especially responsible for the shit that stains the world - that it is mankinds responsibility to clean up any and all messes it makes. Why? Because we aren't that special afterall.

[Socialist Czechia]

If that's what you get out of Christian theology then you aren't paying attention.

The reality is that believing in an all powerful all knowing God deliberately reveals the insignificance of man to the Christian mind. It's central to our belief system. We don't believe that mankind is special. We believe that mankind is especially responsible for the shit that stains the world - that it is mankinds responsibility to clean up any and all messes it makes. Why? Because we aren't that special afterall.

Interesting claim. And yet, you surely pray to God, like all Christians do. Why? You're insignificant, he knows everything, what happened or will happen, so why to even bother? Because it's your God, order in the chaos, who created man and 'gave' him a world.
I didn't meant 'special' status, like when some dude claimed God spoken to him and created sect to exploit a few people, but your status being there on this planet, on this world alive and existing.

It all makes you something more than just another creature who will live and die like nothing happened.

[Distruzio]

If that's what you get out of Christian theology then you aren't paying attention.

The reality is that believing in an all powerful all knowing God deliberately reveals the insignificance of man to the Christian mind. It's central to our belief system. We don't believe that mankind is special. We believe that mankind is especially responsible for the shit that stains the world - that it is mankinds responsibility to clean up any and all messes it makes. Why? Because we aren't that special afterall.

Interesting claim. And yet, you surely pray to God, like all Christians do. Why? You're insignificant, he knows everything, what happened or will happen, so why to even bother?

Because hearing myself say all the bullshit I've done out loud kinda makes me feel just a little less like a dick.

Because it's your God, order in the chaos, who created man and 'gave' him a world.
I didn't meant 'special' status, like when some dude claimed God spoken to him and created sect to exploit a few people, but your status being there on this planet, on this world alive and existing.

It all makes you something more than just another creature who will live and die like nothing happened.

Uh huh. You know, repeating yourself as though I didn't already address what you said isn't a good way to score points or turn the commentary in your favor. It's theologically central to Christian belief to accept and perpetuate the belief that we each are insignificant. We kinda get it. You're not telling us something revolutionary at all. Christians have been believing this schtick for 2000 years. Hell, do you know of any other faith that says, "yeah... God is great and all - you know, loves everyone and forgives them their trespasses - and I believe in Him but He likes the Jews better than me"? Does that sound like a faith that is suggesting that it is the premised on the belief that it has inherited a special status from God?