Why is incest wrong?

[Sondstead]

Why should I have to live in a society that tolerates this shit when it's wrong and offers absolutely no benefit to society ,humanity or civilization?

Because you don't have the right to freedumb from being offended. *nods*

[OMGeverynameistaken]

The genetics of incest vary based on your choice of partner. Cousin incest isn't apparently so bad, but some trolling around on Google seems to indicate that, to take a condition at random, parent or sibling incest increases the chance of a child being born with cystic fibrosis by %25-30. I would call that fairly significant, although I can't, I admit, find any 'real' scientific sources that I'm prepared to read through. Not being a geneticist, the volumes on the subject on Google Books are more or less impenetrable to me.

[Gallifrey Express]

The genetics of incest vary based on your choice of partner. Cousin incest isn't apparently so bad, but some trolling around on Google seems to indicate that, to take a condition at random, parent or sibling incest increases the chance of a child being born with cystic fibrosis by %25-30. I would call that fairly significant, although I can't, I admit, find any 'real' scientific sources that I'm prepared to read through. Not being a geneticist, the volumes on the subject on Google Books are more or less impenetrable to me.

What's the starting chance of being born with CF? That's as important as the percentile increase.

[Yankee Empire]

And until you actually show how it's wrong, instead of just constantly using the same words with nothing to back them up, you're just spitting up insane drivel because you can't fathom the concept of someone wanting to into sex with a relative. We get it. That disgusts you. Salmon disgusts me. I don't want to ban salmon.

And he accuses me of strawmen...

And if incestuous relationships have no benefit for civilization, then the same thing can be said about all relationships, until you can prove how they're bad.

No it can't thats retarted what the fuck are you talking about, relationships are central to civilized society and humanity, but there are billions of alternatives as opposed to fucking family members.

Thats why the whole unverified "loving relationship" argument is bullshit too.


It's Wrong for the 5th time, Because it's socially abhorrent/corrosive, Mentally dysfunctional, and Biologically dangerous.

Think about the families and how this act makes them feel, you think their okay with this, that theyr should tolerate this, because these degenerates couldn't choose someone else to fuck!

What the hell is wrong with you?

And i've read incidences of incest and and the people usually have some sort of mental disorder or illness.

And inbreeding is not only biolgically dangerous, people are going well it's not as Dangerous as so and so ,who fuckign cares if it isn't 100% guranted to make a retarded baby? There's no justification for it. When people can choose so many other people to breed with.

But even if my only argument was "Ick that's fucking gross" it'd still be a good enough argument because you offer absolutely nothing, not one goddamn thing for why Incest should be allowed.

None. If your saying it shouldn't be illegal then your the one that has to justify why. Not me, it's illegal im glad and i want it to stay that way because legalizing it would in no way improve the state of civilized society.

[Gallifrey Express]

And until you actually show how it's wrong, instead of just constantly using the same words with nothing to back them up, you're just spitting up insane drivel because you can't fathom the concept of someone wanting to into sex with a relative. We get it. That disgusts you. Salmon disgusts me. I don't want to ban salmon.

And he accuses me of strawmen...

That's what your doing. Calling it things with no sources, no proof, nothing.

And if incestuous relationships have no benefit for civilization, then the same thing can be said about all relationships, until you can prove how they're bad.

No it can't thats retarted what the fuck are you talking about, relationships are central to civilized society and humanity, but there are billions of alternatives as opposed to fucking family members.

Thats why the whole unverified "loving relationship" argument is bullshit too.


It's Wrong for the 5th time, Because it's socially abhorrent/corrosive, Mentally dysfunctional, and Biologically dangerous.

Think about the families and how this act makes them feel, you think their okay with this, that theyr should tolerate this, because these degenerates couldn't choose someone else to fuck!

What the hell is wrong with you?

And i've read incidences of incest and and the people usually have some sort of mental disorder or illness.

And inbreeding is not only biolgically dangerous, people are going well it's not as Dangerous as so and so ,who fuckign cares if it isn't 100% guranted to make a retarded baby? There's no justification for it. When people can choose so many other people to breed with.

But even if my only argument was "Ick that's fucking gross" it'd still be a good enough argument because you offer absolutely nothing, not one goddamn thing for why Incest should be allowed.

None. If your saying it shouldn't be illegal then your the one that has to justify why. Not me, it's illegal im glad and i want it to stay that way because legalizing it would in no way improve the state of civilized society.

No proof, just more rhetoric? K.

[Stedicules]

Apparently incest won't do anything to a newborn's genetics. Well, anything incredibly major like a third leg or mental retardation.

It increases the chance of recessive genes surfacing.

Many harmful genes are recessive, ergo...

Then explain the royal families.

[Gallifrey Express]

It increases the chance of recessive genes surfacing.

Many harmful genes are recessive, ergo...

Then explain the royal families.

Generations upon generations of incest, unhealthy living conditions and lots and lots of lead poisoning. The last bit is probably the biggest problem for them.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

The genetics of incest vary based on your choice of partner. Cousin incest isn't apparently so bad, but some trolling around on Google seems to indicate that, to take a condition at random, parent or sibling incest increases the chance of a child being born with cystic fibrosis by %25-30. I would call that fairly significant, although I can't, I admit, find any 'real' scientific sources that I'm prepared to read through. Not being a geneticist, the volumes on the subject on Google Books are more or less impenetrable to me.

What's the starting chance of being born with CF? That's as important as the percentile increase.

Wikipedia says %4 of European-descended people carry the gene for CF, while 1 in 2,000 infants born in the European Union are born with CF. When dealing with my children and a potentially lifelong condition that might require a lung transplant, those odds are bad enough.

And, of course, everything I've read indicates that multi-generational incest increases the problem exponentially.

[Yankee Empire]

Why should I have to live in a society that tolerates this shit when it's wrong and offers absolutely no benefit to society ,humanity or civilization?

Because you don't have the right to freedumb from being offended. *nods*

It's not about offence it's about having standards.

[Trotskylvania]

The reason why the incest taboo exists and is near universal is because of the Westermarck effect. Humans are biologically predisposed to not think of people we grew up in close proximity to as mating partners. This is to encourage exogamy, an important genetic survival strategy. It's why romance between childhood friends is often unrequited; one quite often thinks of the other more like a sibling than a potential mate. It's why kids have a strong urge to leave small communities when they come of age. And it's why you think that other people having sex with their siblings is gross: you'd never do it with your siblings, so you can't fathom anyone else trying to do it.

[Trotskylvania]

Because you don't have the right to freedumb from being offended. *nods*

It's not about offence it's about having standards.

Your standards are shitty and irrational.

[Coccygia]

There is evidence that aversion to sibling incest is instinctive in humans (it might well be true in some other animal as well, for all I know). A study of children raised in Israeli kibbutzim (collective farms) in which the children are raised communally found that children from the same kibbutz never married each other. As far as I know sibling incest is rare and usually only happens when the siblings have been raised separately (there was a case about 10 years ago where two half-siblings, raised apart, married and started having kids. They kept having the kids taken away and wound up in prison eventually. But that's another story.) This would also explain the practice of exogamy, where you have to find a mate outside the clan or tribe (as still practiced by traditional Navajos).

[QuadState]

Well, recessive diseases and disorders are more likely to occur, in case of incest...
But, if it's a dominant disease (e.g. HD, Malaria), then you're screwed either way...

[Hajaland]

An irritating number of people aren't reading this. Please do.

Don't worry, I not stupid, just uninformed. I am aware of, and (more or less) understand the whole genetics angle. What I'm looking for is the how and why of the social and psychological.

I'm not talking about rape, I am talking about to consenting individuals that happen to be related engaging in coitus.

Now, as far as I know, most animals don't care about relations, so (correct me if I'm wrong) that says to me, the we (the human race) acquired the social and psychological trait from something we have that they (other animals) don't.

Let me reiterate, I am aware of the genetic issues of incest. I want to know what the cause of the psychological and social dislike that the majority of humanity has of incest.

Have sex with a family member and find out.

[Earth Federation]

I'm atheist, but i think that incest is absolutely un-natural in the human society and even for the good of genetic pool as a whole... The humans evolve thanks to the differences between them...

[Esternial]

It increases the chance of recessive genes surfacing.

Many harmful genes are recessive, ergo...

Then explain the royal families.

Well, the Stormborns are all crazy *nod*

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Then explain the royal families.

Well, the Stormborns are all crazy *nod*

The Romanovs avoided these problems in the 18th century by marrying ambitious German women, who would then murder their inbred husbands and take the throne over themselves.

It was really a remarkably effective system.

[Gallifrey Express]

What's the starting chance of being born with CF? That's as important as the percentile increase.

Wikipedia says %4 of European-descended people carry the gene for CF, while 1 in 2,000 infants born in the European Union are born with CF. When dealing with my children and a potentially lifelong condition that might require a lung transplant, those odds are bad enough.

And, of course, everything I've read indicates that multi-generational incest increases the problem exponentially.

So wouldn't that make the actual increase be closer to 1%?

[Mistelemr]

you know, the whole "deformed children" argument can be beaten on so many levels, that honestly there is no reason to ban incest AT ALL

Option 1: Those engaged in incestuous relationships are legally prohibited from having biological children from their partner*. They may still adopt, foster, etc.

Option 2: Through the use of Eugenics we can screen out deformities and ACTUALLY ALLOW THEM TO HAVE BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN WITHOUT DEFORMITIES. This is one of those "holy shit" moments, though in all honesty in order for the child not to be deformed the sperm and egg cells would likely need be very mutated and different from the parents.

Seriously, no reason to ban it.

Also, for those saying "prove why it isn't bad" you are appealing to a logical fallacy. Those of us whom are saying there is no real problem with incest are making a claim of neutrality and not attempting to define the term in some new light or create linkages. If you want to prove incest is bad the onus is on YOU to make the argument as to WHY it is bad.

[Stedicules]

Then explain the royal families.

Generations upon generations of incest, unhealthy living conditions and lots and lots of lead poisoning. The last bit is probably the biggest problem for them.

Yeah -- Except they're all perfectly healthy.

[Atelia]

It isn't.

I married my sister i dont care what someone else thinks about it.

[Blekksprutia]

The social and political dislike of incest is tied to the genetic issues.

[Sondstead]

It isn't.

I married my sister i dont care what someone else thinks about it.

I have to say, I really doubt this is true to be honest, mainly as I don't think that would actually be legal (or, let's be honest, socially acceptable) in any country. Unless you don't mean a recognized marriage, although even in that case, assuming your sister and the rest of your family is cool with it, uh, more power to you I guess?

[Ifreann]

No, it's actually not. It's not hedonism. It's not championing complete and total personal freedom. It's saying, 'hey, fuck you if you think you have the right to tell people what consenting adults they can shag'fucking their close relatives is wrong and shouldn't be socially acceptable.

Because thats an argument? "Fuck you for telling me what i can't do".

That's all i've gotten out of people defending this degeneracy, "Fuck you oppressor!"

You show some empiracal evidence that indiviudals always now whats best for them and that others can't know hat better for them than the individual in question.

Can you do that? No because civilizatio nas it's structured is design completely aroudn the concept that individuals do't always know whats best for them, thats why we have laws ,restrictions and Taboos.

Why should I have to live in a society that tolerates this shit when it's wrong and offers absolutely no benefit to society ,humanity or civilization?

I have every goddamn right to oppose this rot.

No you don't. I know what's best for you better than you do, so I'm denying you the right to oppose this. Stop at once.

---

Then explain the royal families.

Well, the Stormborns are all crazy *nod*

Targaryeans. Only Danaerys is called Stormborn, because there was a massive storm when she was born. Creative, no?

[Esternial]

Well, the Stormborns are all crazy *nod*

Targaryeans. Only Danaerys is called Stormborn, because there was a massive storm when she was born. Creative, no?

Damn, I should have known better.