What is your "Moral Event Horizon"?

[Volnotova]

We all have things we consider unacceptable, immoral, repulsive or at the very least, make us feel highly uncomfortable.

However, there are such acts that go beyond just that, actions and trains of thought that go beyond the unacceptable. One's that are simply so monstrous and revolting, so utterly deviant and unspeakable that only the most depraved and sickest of minds would contemplate comitting such an act.

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizon? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

---

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

If I could save an innocent life, a familly member, a friend or even my self trough lying I will refuse, it is simply not an acceptable course of action to me, ever. Mind you though that this has ended me up in some pretty odd situations were people seemed rather confused and even agitated that I wouldn't cover their asses by lying for them(To be exact, asking me to do such a thing is something I consider a grave insult).

And accusing me of dishonesty is something that is guaranteed to send me foaming at the mouth at even the slightest insinuation.

EDIT: Fix'd typo...

[Risottia]

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

Needless use of violence (or needlessly high level of violence) on a human person.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Possibly none.

[Volnotova]

It seems like the quote I wanted to replied to just disappeared...

[Hionntach]

I'm not sure if I have one. It's always hard to judge without experiencing the scenario.

I do find your concrete 'no lying no matter the reason' stance a bit disturbing though.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I'm not sure if I have one. It's always hard to judge without experiencing the scenario.

I do find your concrete 'no lying no matter the reason' stance a bit disturbing though.

Lawful neutral at best.

[Risottia]

I do find your concrete 'no lying no matter the reason' stance a bit disturbing though.

More than disturbing, I find it a quite illogical self-limitation of options. Almost as if it were a matter of tastes, you know. Meh, de gustibus non est disputandum.

[Free Soviets]

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

If I could save an innocent life, a familly member, a friend or even my self trough lying I will refuse, it is simply not an acceptable course of action to me, ever.

who do you think you are, kant?

[Xeng He]

Honestly...

*thinks*

It would be very hard for me to actually pin one down. I tend to pride myself in finding the exceptions for things, and so...yeah.

What it would almost definitely be were I to pick something, though, would be crippling a person's mind. There is a sanctity there that I view as more important than the sanctity of life.

[Anarcho-Lillehammer]

Possibly none.

That sick flag of yours really did a number on your mentality.

I guess, mine would be... Genocide.

But like horrific genocide, like the Armenian/Assyrian/Greek type. Iv'e read some horrific stuff on what the Ottomans did to them (ripping babies out of wombs, rape + murder, burning them alive, etc....)

Lying is also really disgusting to me, I'm an honest person. But what really put me off from lying was that the Ottomans CONSTANTLY lied to minorities in an attempt to kill them off/assassinate their leaders. Really dishonourable stuff.

Also, human experimentation, like what the Japanese did to the Chinese during WW2.

[Xeng He]

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

And accusing me of dishonesty is something that is garantued to send me foaming at the mouth at even the slightest insinuation.

So what do you think of statements that are technically true, but misleading?

[Bottle]

However, there are such acts that go beyond just that, actions and trains of thought that go beyond the unacceptable. One's that are simply so monstrous and revolting, so utterly deviant and unspeakable that only the most depraved and sickest of minds would contemplate comitting such an act.

I don't believe in any such thing. Normal human minds are quite capable of coming up with the most disturbing, hideous, and immoral acts. There's no need to try to construct these mythological monster-people who do the worst evils.

[NationState]

a. a full Cleveland Steamer while felching the Pope and voting Republican upon the Holy Sepulchre of Baby Jesus' blue socks of Immaculate Innocence, on the fourth of July, whilst renouncing evolution.

b. reading "Twilight".

Probably b.

[Pilau]

Probably murder or something equally as inhuman.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Possibly none.

That sick flag of yours really did a number on your mentality.

I guess, mine would be... Genocide.

But like horrific genocide, like the Armenian/Assyrian/Greek type. Iv'e read some horrific stuff on what the Ottomans did to them (ripping babies out of wombs, rape + murder, burning them alive, etc....)

Lying is also really disgusting to me, I'm an honest person. But what really put me off from lying was that the Ottomans CONSTANTLY lied to minorities in an attempt to kill them off/assassinate their leaders. Really dishonourable stuff.

Also, human experimentation, like what the Japanese did to the Chinese during WW2.

I'm not saying I don't have a moral core, I actually have too much of one. I'm saying I'm not a fortuneteller, so saying something like "I'll never do this" is something that you can't actually claim. There are countless people that have done horrendous things that they thought they would never do (want or necessity), and though I hate to bring in Godwin's law, think of the moral German's of WWII who were swept up in Hitler's wake, or the Russians in Stalin's, or the Japanese at the rape of Nanking.

There are strong people out there to be sure, but I'm speaking from a realistic point of view. The most anyone could honestly say is "I would do my best to never do that thing" but you never fucking know.

Humans don't have limits, they have thresholds (IMO). Some just die before they reach them.

[New England and The Maritimes]

However, there are such acts that go beyond just that, actions and trains of thought that go beyond the unacceptable. One's that are simply so monstrous and revolting, so utterly deviant and unspeakable that only the most depraved and sickest of minds would contemplate comitting such an act.

I don't believe in any such thing. Normal human minds are quite capable of coming up with the most disturbing, hideous, and immoral acts. There's no need to try to construct these mythological monster-people who do the worst evils.

The most satisfying explanation I've read for the Nazis is the normal drift that comes with unaccountability and isolation of a political body. He starts off in his election making some passing references here and there, going as far as to blame his opponents for certain problems, but by the middle of the 30s when Hitler has no real challenge to doing whatever the hell he wants, we get long, involved diatribes about how it's jews who are personally responsible for literally everything wrong in Germany, then by the 40s he publicly calls for their removal from society.

Instead of it being his "secret plan" it's him attempting to pander while his vision of normal and extreme were obscured by the insular environment that dictatorships necessitate.

[Volnotova]

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

And accusing me of dishonesty is something that is garantued to send me foaming at the mouth at even the slightest insinuation.

So what do you think of statements that are technically true, but misleading?

Semantics bending is acceptable to me.

Statements must be true at all times, even if they can be misleading (to some) (at times).

[Kemalist]

fuck morals

[Volnotova]

fuck morals

I am an ethical nihilist.

But I acknowledge that I am not without moral instincts, even if they are self-defeating, counter-productive or utterly illogical..

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

So what do you think of statements that are technically true, but misleading?

Semantics bending is acceptable to me.

Statements must be true at all times, even if they can be misleading (to some) (at times).

I didn't "kill" that hooker, I just made jabbing motions in the air and she got in the way!

[Bottle]

I don't believe in any such thing. Normal human minds are quite capable of coming up with the most disturbing, hideous, and immoral acts. There's no need to try to construct these mythological monster-people who do the worst evils.

The most satisfying explanation I've read for the Nazis is the normal drift that comes with unaccountability and isolation of a political body. He starts off in his election making some passing references here and there, going as far as to blame his opponents for certain problems, but by the middle of the 30s when Hitler has no real challenge to doing whatever the hell he wants, we get long, involved diatribes about how it's jews who are personally responsible for literally everything wrong in Germany, then by the 40s he publicly calls for their removal from society.

Instead of it being his "secret plan" it's him attempting to pander while his vision of normal and extreme were obscured by the insular environment that dictatorships necessitate.

That's intriguing. Do you by any chance remember the book or article you read about that? I'd love to read more. It just so happens that I was recently watching a documentary about the history of white supremacism in the USA, and I'd be interested in seeing what parallels there would be between Nazi "subculture" in Germany (though really it would have just been the regular culture-culture, since it became mainstream), and the white power subculture in the USA. I think the idea that the insular nature of the racist subculture acts to intensify the ideology is a very plausible idea, but I hadn't heard this idea applied to Hitler before.

[Ashmoria]

We all have things we consider unacceptable, immoral, repulsive or at the very least, make us feel highly uncomfortable.

However, there are such acts that go beyond just that, actions and trains of thought that go beyond the unacceptable. One's that are simply so monstrous and revolting, so utterly deviant and unspeakable that only the most depraved and sickest of minds would contemplate comitting such an act.

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

---

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

If I could save an innocent life, a familly member, a friend or even my self trough lying I will refuse, it is simply not an acceptable course of action to me, ever. Mind you though that this has ended me up in some pretty odd situations were people seemed rather confused and even agitated that I wouldn't cover their asses by lying for them(To be exact, asking me to do such a thing is something I consider a grave insult).

And accusing me of dishonesty is something that is garantued to send me foaming at the mouth at even the slightest insinuation.

i also dislike lying but over the years i have come to accept it as a normal part of human interaction that everyone does. even me from time to time. so i stopped worrying about the mote in someone else's eye and focused on the beam in my own.

then i felt better.

[Bombadil]

I can't think of much other than rape to be honest, given I can't think of a conceivable situation in which that would be the moral choice.

Murder - in an elastic sense of killing an innocent person - theft.. what else is there?

Lying, no problems, I'll avoid it when I can but 'do I look fat' is no time to be telling the truth.

[Bombadil]

The most satisfying explanation I've read for the Nazis is the normal drift that comes with unaccountability and isolation of a political body. He starts off in his election making some passing references here and there, going as far as to blame his opponents for certain problems, but by the middle of the 30s when Hitler has no real challenge to doing whatever the hell he wants, we get long, involved diatribes about how it's jews who are personally responsible for literally everything wrong in Germany, then by the 40s he publicly calls for their removal from society.

Instead of it being his "secret plan" it's him attempting to pander while his vision of normal and extreme were obscured by the insular environment that dictatorships necessitate.

That's intriguing. Do you by any chance remember the book or article you read about that? I'd love to read more. It just so happens that I was recently watching a documentary about the history of white supremacism in the USA, and I'd be interested in seeing what parallels there would be between Nazi "subculture" in Germany (though really it would have just been the regular culture-culture, since it became mainstream), and the white power subculture in the USA. I think the idea that the insular nature of the racist subculture acts to intensify the ideology is a very plausible idea, but I hadn't heard this idea applied to Hitler before.

A good book is The Third Reich: A New History - where he likens the transformation to rebuilding a bridge part by part while traffic (or society) continues to cross it - no one notices the moment it's effectively a new bridge.

[French Union]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.