Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

[Mosasauria]

Most conservatives are for big government.

Gay marriage should not be allowed
Why should the government dictate what a marriage is? That sir, is big government.

Restrictions need to be put in place on Abortion
Why should the government dictate what a mother does with her unborn fetus? That sir, is big government.

School prayer should be reinstated
Why should the government dictate prayer between an individual and their God, or lack thereof? That sir, is big government.

It is a matter of state's rights
You are putting the rights of the state over the rights of the people. In addition, states do not have rights, except those granted by the people. That sir, is the biggest form of government extending its own power without consent.

We are a Christian nation
So we are a theocracy? No different than those theocracies you purport to have disdain for around the world. That sir, is big government.

The list goes on.

Everything here is an example of things the liberals want the Federal government to regulate. That sir, is big government.

How is not wanting legislation that restricts civil rights=big government?
Sheesh, has logic been lost in the world?

[Socialdemokraterne]

People who push for big government are stupid or have been misled all their lives. Every corrupt evil regime has gotten their through big government. We need small government.

No.

http://report.globalintegrity.org/Norway/2009/notebook
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/denmark

[AuSable River]

People who push for big government are stupid or have been misled all their lives.

amen bro.

also, they are servile OR they may have a vested interest in big government if they are a corrupt corporation being subsidized or a special interest group given preferential treatment.

it is no surprise that industries that are heavily subsidized by government largesse -- support government.

there is nothing stupid with this --- however, I have been trying to convince them that everyone in a free society would be far better off -- including these government types -- since the present system in the USA will collapse in our lifetime.

most likely, our government will monetize the debt and destroy the dollar rendering it useless.

paradoxically the left is worried about firms that are too big to fail ---- what will they say when the US dollar collapses in our lifetime ??

we have already seen the US credit rating lowered.

the presently strong dollar is an illusion driven by a weak euro and a bad global economy.

[Mavorpen]

sorry, but you have so many fallacies in your post, I only have time to respond to the first one.

Let's translate this: I really don't know what you just said. Your post is too complicated for me.

[Galiantus]

How would they go bankrupt if they're the dominant force?

Magic.

Someone comes up with a better idea and puts them out of business.

[Socialdemokraterne]

there is nothing stupid with this --- however, I have been trying to convince them that everyone in a free society would be far better off -- including these government types -- since the present system in the USA will collapse in our lifetime.

By your own standard, GDP per capita PPP, the US is experiencing (albeit somewhat slow) growth. It is experiencing a very low rate of growth in its GDP, but the growth is still there. Unemployment has gone down from 9% to 8.2%, and as time goes on and the economy continues to recover we will exit the global slowdown and things will normalize. The USA is not on the verge of a collapse.

[AuSable River]

People who push for big government are stupid or have been misled all their lives. Every corrupt evil regime has gotten their through big government. We need small government.

No.

http://report.globalintegrity.org/Norway/2009/notebook
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/denmark

you are comparing apples and oranges.

indeed, these nations are tiny compared to the USA and without the USA and Great Britain they would be speaking either german or russian.

moreover, if you breakdown the USA to GDP per capita PPP --- most USA states outperform all scandanavian nations.

lastly, these nations have been increasingly reducing the size and scope of government from the 1990s when they had their own monetary collapse

indeed, interest rates in sweden soared to over 500% before center-right governments took power and begin slowly unraveling the onerous welfare state.

besides, norway is the beneficiary of huge oil reserves -- that helps.

[Mosasauria]

People who push for big government are stupid or have been misled all their lives.

amen bro.

also, they are servile OR they may have a vested interest in big government if they are a corrupt corporation being subsidized or a special interest group given preferential treatment.

it is no surprise that industries that are heavily subsidized by government largesse -- support government.

there is nothing stupid with this --- however, I have been trying to convince them that everyone in a free society would be far better off -- including these government types -- since the present system in the USA will collapse in our lifetime.

most likely, our government will monetize the debt and destroy the dollar rendering it useless.

paradoxically the left is worried about firms that are too big to fail ---- what will they say when the US dollar collapses in our lifetime ??

we have already seen the US credit rating lowered.

the presently strong dollar is an illusion driven by a weak euro and a bad global economy.

The definition of a free society to you is one where corporations hold all the power, the government does nothing but exist, or may not exist at all to you, and the people have no say. Whether you outright claim that this is exactly what you support, it is the result of what you support, whether you deny it or not. Hardly a free society at all. More like, as Nationstates classifies it, a Corporate Police State.

[Mavorpen]

Magic.

Someone comes up with a better idea and puts them out of business.

Again, if they're the dominant force, what prevents them from crushing a smaller business with a better idea? Moreover, what keeps the bigger business from stealing their idea?

[Mosasauria]

Magic.

Someone comes up with a better idea and puts them out of business.

You don't just automatically get an idea and suddenly your little business venture puts the largest corporation out of business. That's not how competition works. In a "free market", that little business venture would be squashed like a bug before it could ever grow big enough to challenge a megacorporation.

[JuNii]

Govt is corrupt, so why do liberals want bigger govt !?!?

because the mindset is "Govt run by the other side is corrupt"

[AuSable River]

sorry, but you have so many fallacies in your post, I only have time to respond to the first one.

Let's translate this: I really don't know what you just said. Your post is too complicated for me.

i responded to the first sentence that was a grievous fallacy.

why continue responding to fallacy on top of fallacy.

alien bat has to address this first nonsense that something is sustainable without making a profit.

indeed, how in the heck can you grow an enterprise without making a profit ????

ah yes -- you can plunder by coercion profitable firms.

but remember this ---- 'socialism is great, until you run out of other people's money' --maggie

see greece, cuba, north korea, soviet union, california, detroit, et al.

[Mosasauria]

No.

http://report.globalintegrity.org/Norway/2009/notebook
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/denmark

you are comparing apples and oranges.

indeed, these nations are tiny compared to the USA and without the USA and Great Britain they would be speaking either german or russian.

moreover, if you breakdown the USA to GDP per capita PPP --- most USA states outperform all scandanavian nations.

lastly, these nations have been increasingly reducing the size and scope of government from the 1990s when they had their own monetary collapse

indeed, interest rates in sweden soared to over 500% before center-right governments took power and begin slowly unraveling the onerous welfare state.

besides, norway is the beneficiary of huge oil reserves -- that helps.

Sauce?

[Blakk Metal]

All governments are effectively corporations to begin with.

Hmmm... How so?

- The controllers and investors of the government have limited liability.
- The government has an indefinite lifetime.
- The government is established by the government.
- The government can own property.
- The government can enter contracts.
- The government can sue and get sued.

People who push for big government are stupid or have been misled all their lives.

Which explains conservatives.

[Galiantus]

amen bro.

also, they are servile OR they may have a vested interest in big government if they are a corrupt corporation being subsidized or a special interest group given preferential treatment.

it is no surprise that industries that are heavily subsidized by government largesse -- support government.

there is nothing stupid with this --- however, I have been trying to convince them that everyone in a free society would be far better off -- including these government types -- since the present system in the USA will collapse in our lifetime.

most likely, our government will monetize the debt and destroy the dollar rendering it useless.

paradoxically the left is worried about firms that are too big to fail ---- what will they say when the US dollar collapses in our lifetime ??

we have already seen the US credit rating lowered.

the presently strong dollar is an illusion driven by a weak euro and a bad global economy.

The definition of a free society to you is one where corporations hold all the power, the government does nothing but exist, or may not exist at all to you, and the people have no say. Whether you outright claim that this is exactly what you support, it is the result of what you support, whether you deny it or not. Hardly a free society at all. More like, as Nationstates classifies it, a Corporate Police State.

OMG! You're psychic!

On a more serious note, NO, I do not want the government powerless, but I do want it less involved in my life. If the government didn't have so much power, these large corporations would have failed a long time ago, the way the free market naturally kills them, recycles them, and makes things more efficient. I certainly hope you understand supply and demand, because I have a feeling my next post is going to be rather long...

[Libertas Liber]

Everything here is an example of things the liberals want the Federal government to regulate. That sir, is big government.

How is not wanting legislation that restricts civil rights=big government?
Sheesh, has logic been lost in the world?

It goes both ways. One side wants a restricted economy, the other restricted civil freedoms. Reps/Dems that restrict civil freedoms and are for corp. welfare, regulation of economy, they're just full-out statists.

[Mavorpen]

i responded to the first sentence that was a grievous fallacy.

why continue responding to fallacy on top of fallacy.

If it was such a fallacy, you should have no problem addressing his WHOLE post.

alien bat has to address this first nonsense that something is sustainable without making a profit.

Try reading his whole post.

indeed, how in the heck can you grow an enterprise without making a profit ????

ah yes -- you can plunder by coercion profitable firms.

but remember this ---- 'socialism is great, until you run out of other people's money' --maggie

Oh look, a quote that is ignorant of what socialism is.

see greece, cuba, north korea, soviet union, california, detroit, et al.

None nowhere near socialist. But nice try.

[AuSable River]

you are comparing apples and oranges.

indeed, these nations are tiny compared to the USA and without the USA and Great Britain they would be speaking either german or russian.

moreover, if you breakdown the USA to GDP per capita PPP --- most USA states outperform all scandanavian nations.

lastly, these nations have been increasingly reducing the size and scope of government from the 1990s when they had their own monetary collapse

indeed, interest rates in sweden soared to over 500% before center-right governments took power and begin slowly unraveling the onerous welfare state.

besides, norway is the beneficiary of huge oil reserves -- that helps.

Sauce?

sauce is served:

enjoy:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Stefa ... cess-story

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/03/sweden.html

[Galiantus]

Someone comes up with a better idea and puts them out of business.

Again, if they're the dominant force, what prevents them from crushing a smaller business with a better idea? Moreover, what keeps the bigger business from stealing their idea?

If they are in control of the government, nothing is stopping them from crushng a smaller business. That's what is happening right now in the economy.

There's this thing called a patent: you come up with an idea, you tell the government about your idea, and you become the only one who can use the idea for a period of time. Anyone who violates this pays you big money.

[Mavorpen]

sauce is served:

enjoy:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Stefa ... cess-story

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/03/sweden.html

The bullshit, it flows well from those sources.

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogs ... ty-in.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8375950

[Socialdemokraterne]

indeed, these nations are tiny compared to the USA

The rate of change in GDP per capita PPP is what matters for what we're talking about. It's not the raw numbers I'm comparing, it's the rates of change. Why can't you understand that? We are talking about standards of living and changes in national productivity.

and without the USA and Great Britain they would be speaking either german or russian.

I am beyond words on just how nonsensical it is that you would even bring up that nonsense in the context of our discussion.

moreover, if you breakdown the USA to GDP per capita PPP --- most USA states outperform all scandanavian nations.

Show me. Also, you're still missing the bigger picture: IT IS ABOUT RATES OF CHANGE, DAMMIT.

lastly, these nations have been increasingly reducing the size and scope of government from the 1990s when they had their own monetary collapse

indeed, interest rates in sweden soared to over 500% before center-right governments took power and begin slowly unraveling the onerous welfare state.

Evidence. I've provided it for every single point I've ever made, you've yet to provide it once. Do so now.

besides, norway is the beneficiary of huge oil reserves -- that helps.

Alright. Subtract the benefit of the USA's natural resource pools and then compare the two again. Keep the method of comparison fair.

[Norstal]

Everything here is an example of things the liberals want the Federal government to regulate. That sir, is big government.

How is not wanting legislation that restricts civil rights=big government?
Sheesh, has logic been lost in the world?

Logic is prohibited during the times of summer.

Obviously, the U.S is a Christian nation and thus, we must enact sodomy laws. For justice.

[AuSable River]

i responded to the first sentence that was a grievous fallacy.

why continue responding to fallacy on top of fallacy.

If it was such a fallacy, you should have no problem addressing his WHOLE post.

alien bat has to address this first nonsense that something is sustainable without making a profit.

Try reading his whole post.

indeed, how in the heck can you grow an enterprise without making a profit ????

ah yes -- you can plunder by coercion profitable firms.

but remember this ---- 'socialism is great, until you run out of other people's money' --maggie

Oh look, a quote that is ignorant of what socialism is.

see greece, cuba, north korea, soviet union, california, detroit, et al.

None nowhere near socialist. But nice try.

dude, i dont have time to deal with your silly posts.

I challenged you to respond to the nonsense that you posted earlier regarding obama and government spending and you have not answered that challenge.

for example, you cited bogus sources that government spending under obama expanded less than virtually every other president in the last 40 years --- by conveniently and dishonestly omitting his huge hundreds of billions in stimulus spending in 2009.

moreover, I challenged you to describe the process by which a boogeyman monopoly gains power over society in a free market and you have run from this challenge

in sum, for the 15th time

answer these challenges

[Mavorpen]

If they are in control of the government, nothing is stopping them from crushng a smaller business. That's what is happening right now in the economy.

Bullshit. Vote the corrupt politicians out.

There's this thing called a patent: you come up with an idea, you tell the government about your idea, and you become the only one who can use the idea for a period of time. Anyone who violates this pays you big money.

With no government, good luck with this.

[Mavorpen]

dude, i dont have time to deal with your silly posts.

I challenged you to respond to the nonsense that you posted earlier regarding obama and government spending and you have not answered that challenge.

for example, you cited bogus sources that government spending under obama expanded less than virtually every other president in the last 40 years --- by conveniently and dishonestly omitting his huge hundreds of billions in stimulus spending in 2009.

moreover, I challenged you to describe the process by which a boogeyman monopoly gains power over society in a free market and you have run from this challenge

in sum, for the 15th time

answer these challenges

FOr example, he posts a links to images that purport to show that republicans are the biggest deficit spenders -- including an intellectually dishonest link that fails to show deficit increases under obama (his link mysteriously cuts off prior to 2009 when national debt expanded from $10 trillion to a record $16 trillion in 4 years).

Lolwhut? Only one of the links leaves out Obama. The other two include him. Also, I'm tired of the right saying that Obama increased the debt by $5 trillion. No, he did not. It increased UNDER him, not because of him. Here, more evidence you're full of shit:

http://gooznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/changes_deficit.jpg

Moreover, another intellectually dishonest link begins the obama administration from 2010 instead of 2009 when he pushed through through trillions in new stimulus spending.

2009 was Bush's fiscal year.

In sum, this ideologue is dishonest. His ideological programming allows him to correctly see republican hypocrisy and corruption -- but he is blinded by programming to see at least equally damaging democrat party corruption and waste.

No, it's not. You just don't like facts. I've shown that liberals aren't the ones that make government bigger. You've given no evidence otherwise.

No matter, I will use logic to destroy him starting with the following questions:

1) how can this ideologue explain how bankers earned more profit in 2 years under obama, pelosi and reid then the previous eight years under bush ? And is this any surprise when wall street players dominate the obama cabinet ? (from the leftwing huffpo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 79482.html)

It doesn't. My whole post was about how you're full of shit claiming that liberals want to make government bigger. I agree Obama has been shit when it comes to not giving in to corporations.

2) if the obama administration is not corrupt -- then explain why lobbyist spending reached record levels in the immediate two years after he gained power ?? And is Mavorpen surprised that from 2008 to 2010, washington was 'open for corruption to the highest bidder' (from a leftwing thinktank: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/1 ... ?mobile=nc)

What am I surprised about? Enough with the straw men.

3) And lastly, are you so deluded that you think that only republicans are corrupt ?

Nope, but nice straw man.

I will deal with this leftist mavoren and his offensive attitude and move on to the next leftwinger.

You've dealt with nothing, you've dodged everything and refuse to give any evidence.