Established Religion Is So Evil ...

[Nansurium]

Has anyone ever told you that heterosexuality is a sin? Yep. You aren't allowed to be attracted to the opposite sex. And if you do, well the consequences will be...heated.

Obviously I'm joking. God doesn't care about who we are attracted to. He cares about our lifestyle.

[Socialdemokraterne]

Just in case there's any confusion, the thread topic is actually whether or not it's desirable for a country to have an established state religion or for the government to endorse a particular church.

[Jafas United]

Just in case there's any confusion, the thread topic is actually whether or not it's desirable for a country to have an established state religion or for the government to endorse a particular church.

I guess so. The homosexuality is irrelevant to this thread.

[Forsher]

Compulsory religion, that is evil. Not the same thing, however.

[Socialdemokraterne]

I guess so. The homosexuality is irrelevant to this thread.

Not entirely, it just depends on how the issue is framed. For example, the discussion a page back on the Danish government's decision to allow homosexual marriages to take place within establishments "owned" by the Church of Denmark and its formal recognition of those marriages raises the question of whether or not it is right that the Danish system should be so constructed. In other words, should the Minister for Ecclesiastical Affairs and the Parliament be able to act as the central entities of a church and therefore speak for the clergy?

You can discuss homosexuality if you want. It's all in how it's angled.

[Free South Califas]

Just in case there's any confusion, the thread topic is actually whether or not it's desirable for a country to have an established state religion or for the government to endorse a particular church.

I guess so. The homosexuality is irrelevant to this thread.

Sounds more like a central issue to me.

[Jafas United]

I guess so. The homosexuality is irrelevant to this thread.

Not entirely, it just depends on how the issue is framed. For example, the discussion a page back on the Danish government's decision to allow homosexual marriages to take place within establishments owned by the Church of Denmark and its formal recognition of those marriages raises the question of whether or not it is right that the Danish system should be so constructed. In other words, should the Minister for Ecclesiastical Affairs and the Parliament be able to act as the central entities of a church and therefore speak for the clergy?

You can discuss homosexuality if you want. It's all in how it's angled.

I see. But the discussion I was having, which you can read, I'll admit was irrelevant and pointless. Plus, I've been reported, so it's best I refrain from continuing my heated discussion.

[Socialdemokraterne]

I see. But the discussion I was having, which you can read, I'll admit was irrelevant and pointless. Plus, I've been reported, so it's best I refrain from continuing my heated discussion.

OK, no problem. You can let that conversation die. I'm not the one that reported you, by the way. I just wanted to put that out there. I've run across you in these forums before, and you've never seemed bad enough that you couldn't be reasoned with without calling for moderation intervention.

[Jafas United]

I see. But the discussion I was having, which you can read, I'll admit was irrelevant and pointless. Plus, I've been reported, so it's best I refrain from continuing my heated discussion.

OK, no problem. You can let that conversation die. I'm not the one that reported you, by the way. I just wanted to put that out there. I've run across you in these forums before, and you've never seemed bad enough that you couldn't be reasoned with without calling for moderation intervention.

Thanks. And yeah, another poster who hasn't participated in this thread did so. But I don't think my actions accounted to flaming or the like. I guess I'll leave it at that.

[Katganistan]

Just a reminder to keep it civil, everyone.

[Socialdemokraterne]

Just a reminder to keep it civil, everyone.

You got it, commander!

[Ifreann]

If you're an atheist, you might actually want to support a state church. Countries with a state church actually have more atheists than countries without them.

Why would I want there to be more atheists in my country?

[AiliailiA]

Just a reminder to keep it civil, everyone.

Thanks.

The thread was heading into Believers v. Atheists territory (ie, the Land of Flames) while I was logged out. I'll be logging out again soon, and it's the weekend all around the globe. More moderation might be required.

[AiliailiA]

If you're an atheist, you might actually want to support a state church. Countries with a state church actually have more atheists than countries without them.

Why would I want there to be more atheists in my country?

You accept that as true?

@Conspiracies Revealed: Interesting! Sounds like bullshit ... or am I just judging your opinions by your name? Something to back that up would be good.

ie. Rant, Source, or GTFO

[Free South Califas]

Just a reminder to keep it civil, everyone.

Thanks.

The thread was heading into Believers v. Atheists territory (ie, the Land of Flames) while I was logged out. I'll be logging out again soon, and it's the weekend all around the globe. More moderation might be required.

Is it just me, or do the mods seem to be doing just fine without help?

[Ifreann]

Why would I want there to be more atheists in my country?

You accept that as true?

Not really.

[AiliailiA]

Thanks.

The thread was heading into Believers v. Atheists territory (ie, the Land of Flames) while I was logged out. I'll be logging out again soon, and it's the weekend all around the globe. More moderation might be required.

Is it just me, or do the mods seem to be doing just fine without help?

I'm the OP. I know, there is no thread ownership in General, but if you read the thread you'll see that keeping the thread on topic is something that I care about. I appreciate the help.

Now, I'm going reading back to see if you posted anything on-topic.

[Free South Califas]

Ah, disregard my snark then...

[AiliailiA]

You accept that as true?

Not really.

So, what's your point?

[Ifreann]

Not really.

So, what's your point?

That I don't see why an atheist would necessarily want there to be more atheists in their country, that I don't see how that would be a reason to support an established religion.

[AiliailiA]

I guess so. The homosexuality is irrelevant to this thread.

Sounds more like a central issue to me.

It's certainly a major point of friction between churches and the secular law.

I do think a church wishing to exclude same-sex couples from their religious ceremony of marriage should be permitted to do so. Their "holy blessing" on the marriage is not necessary for the couple to actually get married. No church can deny civil marriage to any of its congregation, nor break a marriage apart.

I don't even mind if a church excludes members of their congregation for coming out as gay or lesbian (or all the other gender-related stuff which makes my head spin). The people thrown out of church don't lose much in my opinion, and it makes that church look really bad to be so interested in the private life of their congregation.

However. It's all different if that church is established. If government is giving its moral support to a church, granting it a share of government legitimacy, then government absolutely can require that church to recognize marriages that are granted by government.

Establishment of a particular Church is Government helping that Church out, in the market of Churches which individuals can choose to be in, leave, or move between. An Established Church has a debt to government ... so to return to the beginning of the thread ... maybe Establishing a Church is more good than bad?

[Sociobiology]

If you're an atheist, you might actually want to support a state church. Countries with a state church actually have more atheists than countries without them.

Why would I want there to be more atheists in my country?

lower crime, better health...

[Zeppy]

lower crime, better health...

more human sacrifices!

[Ifreann]

Why would I want there to be more atheists in my country?

lower crime, better health...

Why would those things happen together?

[The ancient Kingdom of Putacaia]

Yes, it is so evil.