Question and opinions

[Allbeama]

Well it looks Like I tried.

I tried to talk to you about Reason and Freedom.

But you decieds to stick with the opressive Collectivism and the end of freedom by supporting state schools and goverment regulations.


But since you wish to stick with this idea I will let you stray from reason and let you stick with the counter-productive and destructive thinking of govemrent regulations and state run schools and unions.

But there is only one thing left for me to do

http://alphaatlantis.blogspot.com/


This is my blog. Enjoy it I will update it regulary. But you won`t like it. I think I am alone here on nationstates. I am the only Objectivist the only one who supports freedom and reason.

But it`s the only thing I can do then farwell I will never bring up this subject agian since clearly I can not convince you all.

We do value freedom and reason, but we also value the real world. Enjoy your myopic life! You can't convince us because we see the flaws in your rhetoric all too clearly.

[Barringtonia]

I feel so stupid for not understanding History land's point about GE receiving bail-out money they asked from the Bush administration - something to do with scratching backs but I just don't see how Bush could benefit from this, especially when MSNBC seems so pro-Obama.

It's all very confusing to me.

I must not be rational, yet everyone is rational according to objectivism,

It's all so very mysterious.

[Natapoc]

I have a question about your Alpha Atlantis city that you claim to assist in running on your blog.

Alpha Atlantis is a new city. A City based on Capitalism uncomprimised and unregulated. A City that rejected Altusim all forms of it. This is a city where self-intrest is paromount and sacrafice rejected. The collectivist and the Religous have no place here.

Where is this city? How many acres? How many real people live/work in it? You claim that as founder and member of the general council you still communicate with the "outside world"

Who else is on your general council?

Are people in this city of yours not able to speak for themselves? What sorts of products does your city produce? How could I go about buying one of them?

[Katganistan]

quote="History land";p="495541"]

Yes but teacher`s unions usally are mediocore since they are goverment controlled just like the schools. So therofre are to teach the same lesson the same way to every class.

The government does not control the teacher's union.
I do not teach the same lesson the same way to every one of my classes, and my colleagues teach their classes differently from me and from each other, even when we are teaching the same curriculum.

Once again: making things up to fit your idea of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swl8frWSNEQ

Oh don`t worry I have more facts

except that homeschooling and private schools exist as alternatives to the public school system...so your video is apparently distorting information to conform to a libertarian point of view...hmmm that's called bias.[/quote]

excpet with the public school system private schools are too expensive. Also laws get in the way of homeschooling[/quote]
Untrue. Vouchers are provided to defray the costs of private schooling, and there are plenty of people who homeschool -- and who get help from city, state and schools to do so.

Once more.... making stuff up.

[Delator]

I tried to talk to you about Reason and Freedom.

We tried to talk to you...but you're not interested in talking with us, you're interested in talking at us.

I'd tell you to open your mind next time around, but I have no doubt such words fall on deaf ears. Hopefully time will succeed where reason has failed.

[Katganistan]

I have a question about your Alpha Atlantis city that you claim to assist in running on your blog.

Alpha Atlantis is a new city. A City based on Capitalism uncomprimised and unregulated. A City that rejected Altusim all forms of it. This is a city where self-intrest is paromount and sacrafice rejected. The collectivist and the Religous have no place here.

Where is this city? How many acres? How many real people live/work in it? You claim that as founder and member of the general council you still communicate with the "outside world"

Who else is on your general council?

Are people in this city of yours not able to speak for themselves? What sorts of products does your city produce? How could I go about buying one of them?

Do you mean... a fictional city, with a fictional government?
In other words....
Made stuff up?

[History land]

Alot of people on nationstates are irrational. They see that I am flawed and wrong. They choose not to accept freedom. If you accepted freedom why do you accept goverment regulations which is control.


If you had not noticed it Bush and Obama had orgnizations that support them and in returned those presidents gave them money. Regulations like Enviormental Prothection Laws are good for earth. But they are destructive.


Enviormentalists want to halt support of Industrial expansion. They think we will be destoyed if the Industrial power base expands. But how come evidnice has proven that since the industrial revolution humans have lived longer.

Medicade and Medicare is said by it`s supporters to be fair and effciant since they don`t have the profit motive. Then why is Medicade and Medicare is broke. How come when the goverment steps in it goes wrong. How come Canada`s Helathcare system is at the breaking point. How come there has been more economic growth when the goverment steps away from stuff like healthcare.


Private Healthcare and unregulated insurace are better. One the owners of thier companies want profit correct. Then they need customers they need the largest base of customers they can. So that means they want more consumers so they can produce more to provide for it. So they will create better services and better medical products to help expand thier customer base. Anyone who makes a bad product will destory thier customer base. Also with unregulated insurance there would be diffrent types of insurance. For all people some that cover pre-exsting condtions and some that don`t. It would be the choice of the individual to decied what is the best Health insurance for them.


You belive that companies won`t regulate themslves. Maybe but who is in charge? When goverment regulations are in place the goverment controls with influnencial corporations dealing with the goverment to use regulations to destroy competion. Which soon creates the very monopoly that they wished to avoid. When there are no regulations the consumers are in charge. The consumer is in charge and helps improves a company based on the consumers. Since consumers are the source of thier profit. They have to listen and consider the consumer`s ideas otherwise they might loose thier source of income.


Also you have said about "the only game in town" I have heard of that and think about it. What I said about corporations and goverment. Think about it. You support a political offical the political offical decides to help you get ahead with political pull. It has been proven that infulencial groups or corporations that deal with goverment gain too much power.

ACORN and GE are proof. GE may have asked for money during bush but they turned to obama. When the bail-outs were expanded GE got some thanks to thier contributions. ACORN had Obama as a member so now he will help ACORN so therfore one group is gaining power thanks.

The subprime morgatges were made to help people who could afford a home. Also they had regulations on those morgatges but they still caused the housing problem.Regulations also complicate things and restrict companies which could lead to political pull and fraud. For Example GE commited major fraud and were given a fine of 500$ which they payed with Taxpayer money. They bassically got away with it since none of them were charged.


Welfare and Education are next. Welfare is a corecive form of redistribution of wealth. Charity is good but it should be voluntary like private charity. Welfare is other`s people money and as proven no person can do good with other people`s money. Private charity do the best they can try to help them. Taxes that pay for welfare can be abused and fraud can happen also the beucrats running it could take moast of it and give the rest to the poor.

Yes I know there are good intentions for welfare. But good intentions are corrupted. The goverment ussaly gets bigger thanks to good intentions the constitution was made to guard aginst these good intentions. Welfare is ussaly low and there is very little incintive to be on. You can only be on welfare if your do not have a job. So welfare is if you have a job you don`t get it if you don`t have a job you get it. Besides welfare checks are usally small and you can`t live on it


Education should be Private. Public Education is controlled by the majority. The Majority keeps changing and plus causes problems. If all education is privatised it would be better. One each private school would drive for the best standards. Private schools have been proven to have better standards and better results. Plus if there are more private schools that means lower prices and more choices.

Private schools that employ teachers that are incompetant or are bad. Would be closed down. Parents would have the power to choose the school they wished. But the parents would also be able to homeschool there children if they so choose.


Unions are also corrupt organizations. You say they would defend the rights of the workers but it`s a problem. Unions are historicaly racists. It has been proven that they exclude non-white people. Unions have supported a laws called the Chinesse Exclusion act. So if the union defends the rights of workers it only defends the rights of white workers. Collective Barganing is dangerous it gives the power to decied the condtions,the pay and who may enter the industry. These unions are white dominatied and it controls the entire workforce.

Owners of companies decied how much to pay. Now think of this a individual worker when hired. Can negotiate for the individual`s own benifit not for the benifit of all the workers. So unions are corrupt and the individual worker can bargian for the self. Also all workers are diffrent. individual workers should negoitate for themslves it`s better there is more freedom. Plus a worker can influnce in managment and plus the worker can take his or her skills and labor elswhere. a individual has a choice and alternatives.


Now for the Final Part Laws. Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happenisses. Life is not to be murderd for your life not to be taken by someone else. So the goverment has the responsibilty and so does the individual have the power to defend themslves from crimminals. Also selling poison products are illigeal because it leads to murder. The goverment steps in ONLY when your life,liberty or property is threathaned by another individual. Slaverly is aginst liberty so you can`t have it. Even if your rational self-intrests involes slaves your intrests go aginst liberty aginst of others rights. if you try to enforce slaverly the goverment has the power to step in.



Force is wrong to try to get a slave you must you force. If a individual uses force on another individual the goverment can step in and use force aginst the one who started the use of it.

The goverment steps in when

individual uses force on another individual
individual steals or destorys property of another individual
invaded by a forigen country
a individual uses fraud agianst another one
making individual slaves
breech of contract

That`s when the goverment steps in when life liberity pursuit of happenssis and property is threathend. The use of Police,Military and Courts are for DEFENSIVE mesures. Goverment is negative and defensive.

Also indivduials chooses to be rational and irrational. What you belive in rational and what I belive is irrational is diffrent. But it is your choice to consider what is or is not rational. Reality which I belive in will decied what happens. I know reality and this is reality and I have fully explained why.



One more point before I end this.


Taxes and minimum wage laws.

Number one I have a couple of videos of a documentry by Walter Williams. It should explain alot and tell you why minium wage is wrong. But let me start with taxes


Taxes are nedded to pay for Police,Military and Courts. But the taxes we have no are not needed. There is a idea for a good tax that should help pay for the goverment`s responibilitys a negative income tax.

to quote wikipedia

negative income tax (abbreviated NIT) is a progressive income tax system where people earning below a certain amount receive supplemental pay from the government instead of paying taxes to the government.

Under this type of tax welfare,food stamps etc would be eliminated. they would not be needed. Plus it would provide a more incitive to work. Now I know what your thinking but if you want more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax

There is information for you.


Another information is Mimmum wage laws. These laws you say are good but are a problem. The goverment is deciding how much you have to pay all of your workers. code word ALL that means you can not pay them on thier abllity. You must all pay them the same. That destorys incintive to work.

How do you ask? Well if a company pays it`s workers on abllity. Everyone must prove thier abllity and that is how they get payed a merit system. a system where you get more money if you work harder and smarter and show your abllity. you would get less money if you do a bad job.

Under the mimmum wage laws. All workers are payed the same destroing the incintive to work harder. Which prevents people from being hired increasing uneployment.

On the Final note I have to clear this up. Democracy a pure democracy is a system where the majoirty rules and the minority does not have power to do anything. like a lynch mob where the minority is the person on the end of the rope. like in Unions where the majority rules and the minority must accept it.

In a Republic which is a representive democracy. Is where the minority is respected and the whims of the majority can not inflict thier will upon them. The minority can stop laws they dissagre with making it fair and more representive.

so a Republic is more individualistic than a democracy which is more collectivist. Now for my nation yes I know large Taxes and a dictatorship. Past thoughts before I accepted Objectivism is what made my nation. Now I must change it which I will.


Now I have something to say

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That is very very true.

Walter Williams videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1r-r6iLBEI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DS0XXFdyfI&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqMuLNWL_Qo&feature=related


Also one more thing

THE WELFARE TRAP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap

[Delator]

Reality which I belive in will decied what happens. I know reality and this is reality and I have fully explained why.

[History land]

It`s impossible. I explained everything but they just take one line at it and then laugh. I suppose all the Left-Wing zeolts in this world will forever be blind then. So be it

[History land]

Reality which I belive in will decied what happens. I know reality and this is reality and I have fully explained why.

The only reason you continue to laugh to why I don`t belive in reality. Because I didn`t explain it to you clearly enough. Well I have explained it you have read it.

[Barringtonia]

It`s impossible. I explained everything but they just take one line at it and then laugh. I suppose all the Left-Wing zeolts in this world will forever be blind then. So be it

I'll say one thing, with the amount of dedication you put into blathering, you have a fine career in the Senate ahead of you, perhaps the government will be of use to you after all,

[History land]

It`s impossible. I explained everything but they just take one line at it and then laugh. I suppose all the Left-Wing zeolts in this world will forever be blind then. So be it

I'll say one thing, with the amount of dedication you put into blathering, you have a fine career in the Senate ahead of you, perhaps the government will be of use to you after all,

I don`t plan to go into goverment

[Barringtonia]

It`s impossible. I explained everything but they just take one line at it and then laugh. I suppose all the Left-Wing zeolts in this world will forever be blind then. So be it

I'll say one thing, with the amount of dedication you put into blathering, you have a fine career in the Senate ahead of you, perhaps the government will be of use to you after all,

I don`t plan to go into goverment

You really should though,

Anyway, just to your first point..

Private Healthcare and unregulated insurace are better. One the owners of thier companies want profit correct. Then they need customers they need the largest base of customers they can.

Not the largest, the most profitable, no point to providing to people who aren't profitable, which leaves, oh, about 50 million people uninsured?

So that means they want more consumers so they can produce more to provide for it. So they will create better services and better medical products to help expand their customer base.

No, they just want more profitable customers, and in doing that you can cut all sorts of corners, denying people care for previous occurrences - so, for example, someone with a genetic heart fault is charged more than someone without, how is that really fair when it comes to healthcare.

Not everyone can afford a new car, luckily there's a second-hand car market, there's no second-hand health market, you're treated or not, you don't get someone else's old insurance at a cheaper rate.

I have public healthcare, I also choose to take out a private healthcare option, everyone wins.

Anyway, as much as you accuse people of not responding to your points, we've all noted you don't respond to others unless by making stuff up, little point really debating with you,

[Grave_n_idle]

Why does is seem that all the people I debate with are agianst laissez-faire capitalism.

Simple math.

If the people that are most attracted to running businesses... are the people most attracted to profit, then profit will be the dominant motivation.

And profit doesn't care.

[Delator]

It`s impossible. I explained everything but they just take one line at it and then laugh. I suppose all the Left-Wing zeolts in this world will forever be blind then. So be it

Plenty of people pointed out the flaws in your reasoning, and you dismissed them...you yourself have chosen to be blind.

My advice to you would be to put down the Ayn Rand and pick up some Socrates.

Not that I expect you will do so...

[Louis Van Boxel Woolf]

See: the banking industry and subprime mortgage lending
See: dangerous product recalls
See: the abuses of working class people, particularly the undocumented, illegal workers
See: poverty and disease in the working/lower class
See: monopolies

Ok I see the problem here.

The subprime mortgage lending was to help the poor people who could not afford a home.

A company will suffer if there is a dangerous product.

Any abused worker would leave thier jobs. Illigeal workers should be agisnt the law they are illigeal. Anyone who comes in the nation illigeal is obvously a crimminal.


Monopolies would not exsit in my ideal society. But in the mixed economys monopolies will exsit
Plus poverty will always exsit

History land, you make me sick!

The subprime mortgage lending was to help the poor people who could not afford a home.

It was about making quick cash for those who all ready had it by feeding of the poor's desperation to LIVE.

A company will suffer if there is a dangerous product.

No they won't, they'll pay people with a dangerous product to shut up, or what if it's a neccesity like Healthcare or a pharmacy chain, they won't suffer, because YOU HAVE TO buy from them (well in America anyway, not good 'ol Europe).

Any abused worker would leave thier jobs. Illigeal workers should be agisnt the law they are illigeal. Anyone who comes in the nation illigeal is obvously a crimminal.

No, because in a totally un regualted market any American , English, French, Australian, German etc. corporation will say to the illegal immigrant "Oh yes, it's normal for employees to hand their passports to their employers". So they do that and then now the corporation can pay them NOTHING AND THEY'RE POWERLESS, if they go to the police THEY'LL END UP IN JAIL FOR ENTERING ILLEGALLY.

I rest my case.

[Tekania]

Moast humans are irrational. The collectivists like Socialists,Communists and Facists are irrational. Religous people are also irrational. I would explain why but this thread is not ment for that. Small numbers of humans are rational. But sense the start of the human race Man has been a rational being. They have done what they needed to do to survive.

So, do you not think that there could be a flaw or at least some limitations to a model of economics that is based on the erroneous presumption that humans are a rational lot? Don't you think a more comprehensive model that applies to a broader class of phenomena is a superior explanation?

No, I think looking at his theory in the following manner, shows how flawed it is:

1. He agrees there are "most" irrational humans, he classifies theses irrationals as anyone in the communist, socialist or religious category..
2. He sees humanity as a whole, as a rational lot... That is, as, effectively, an over-all grouping, humanity is rational.

Where the problem arises:
Laissez-faire capitalism, indeed any form of Objectivist political ideology is based on the premise of the individual sovereign. That is, the entire premise is built upon the single self as the center of the system.... COMMUNITIES/SOCIETY does not really exist... Relying on the principle of human communities being generally "rational" is a premise for socialism, not individualism... And individualist philosophy, will not work unless its premise about individuals is correct (that individuals are rational), and by his own admission they are not... So any subsequent postulates are also to be treated as incorrect.... Thus, unless EVERY (with no exception) participating individual in the system is rational, laissez-faire capitalism will not work....

And therein lies the difference, most people with socialist leaning political philosophies did not start with a postulate of socialism, it developed by interaction with people, and "evolved" into its viewpoint.... Whereas most Objectivist political philosophy bears a striking resemblance to religion... A postulate/belief his held, and all other actions are directed to that belief regardless of outcomes or any other factor...

[New Hobabwe]

They see that I am flawed and wrong.

This is pretty much the only true thing you posted in this thread ...

Think about it.

[History land]

It`s not true. Listen Humanity is rational. But individual`s choose to be rational or irrational.

How can you have freedom as long as your are forced to pay taxes to go into welfare. How can you have freedom when the goverments restricts you with regulations. How can you have freedom when the goverment gets in and begians monopolies like the public school system.

[History land]

A company will suffer if there is a dangerous product.

No they won't, they'll pay people with a dangerous product to shut up, or what if it's a neccesity like Healthcare or a pharmacy chain, they won't suffer, because YOU HAVE TO buy from them (well in America anyway, not good 'ol Europe).



I rest my case.[/quote]



Europe a good place to live. Seriosuly

[Treznor]

It`s not true. Listen Humanity is rational. But individual`s choose to be rational or irrational.

How can you have freedom as long as your are forced to pay taxes to go into welfare. How can you have freedom when the goverments restricts you with regulations. How can you have freedom when the goverment gets in and begians monopolies like the public school system.

Because the government isn't telling you what to do with your life. The government is simply gathering the resources to ensure that more people have the choice of what to do with their lives. That you call it "theft" doesn't make it so.

Shall we call it "theft" because the government appropriates funds for military spending? Yes, that's explicitly written into the Constitution, but it's still government taking your money away from you. The difference is that even the most stone-headed conservative doesn't complaing about government spending in that arena. They only complain when government spending could actually help people.

Ever wonder why people snicker when they hear the phrase "compassionate conservative?"

[History land]

Europe may be a place with great culture and history. But europe is one of the worst`s places to live. Europe is ruled by the EU and there socialists. With very Bad Healthcare


People come to the US for treatment because we have better healthcare. Which for the moast part is private and it`s better`s than goverment run healthcare in europe.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It`s not true. Listen Humanity is rational. But individual`s choose to be rational or irrational.

How can you have freedom as long as your are forced to pay taxes to go into welfare. How can you have freedom when the goverments restricts you with regulations. How can you have freedom when the goverment gets in and begians monopolies like the public school system.

How can you have freedom where a large section of the population is constantly in fear of starvation and death if they lose their job, since there's no safety net? How can you have freedom when corporations are unregulated, can destroy the envrionment without punishment, and impose brutal working conditions on workers? How can you have freedom when the poor cannot afford a decent education?

Here's the answer. A small group have freedom in your utopia. They are called "the rich". Everyone else only has the freedom to starve. And that, right there, is what I call a negative right.

When it turns out that your rational "philosophical" principles would inevitably lead to mass suffering and a decline in quality of life its usually time to go back and rethink them.

[History land]

It`s not true. Listen Humanity is rational. But individual`s choose to be rational or irrational.

How can you have freedom as long as your are forced to pay taxes to go into welfare. How can you have freedom when the goverments restricts you with regulations. How can you have freedom when the goverment gets in and begians monopolies like the public school system.

Because the government isn't telling you what to do with your life. The government is simply gathering the resources to ensure that more people have the choice of what to do with their lives. That you call it "theft" doesn't make it so.

Shall we call it "theft" because the government appropriates funds for military spending? Yes, that's explicitly written into the Constitution, but it's still government taking your money away from you. The difference is that even the most stone-headed conservative doesn't complaing about government spending in that arena. They only complain when government spending could actually help people.

Ever wonder why people snicker when they hear the phrase "compassionate conservative?"

number one I am not a consvertive I am a Objectivist. number 2 the goverment should be spending in the military because it`s the goverment`s job to run it. The goverment`s only job is to defend your rights not to provide you with money,food and everything else. You have to provide yourself with all of that

[Treznor]

Europe may be a place with great culture and history. But europe is one of the worst`s places to live. Europe is ruled by the EU and there socialists. With very Bad Healthcare


People come to the US for treatment because we have better healthcare. Which for the moast part is private and it`s better`s than goverment run healthcare in europe.

I've lived under socialised health care. I've lived under privatised health care. My personal preference is the socialised health care. Less waiting, lower costs and better treatment.

I bet you've never even visited a doctor under a socialised health care system. How do you know what they're like, except what Rush Limbaugh tells you?