Atlas Shrugs, Yet Nobody Cares

[Seangoli]

Problem being that there lacks an a strong infrastructure in place to properly utilize the energy produced by some of the new techniques. There is a lot more to it than putting up a few windfarms, solar farms, and such.

Hmm didn't think of that. For the record it was a jab at the free market, not alternative energy.

Oh I know, and I completely agree. Coming from a purely objective stand point, the free market does not have the capability to create the infrastructure necessary, just as they did not have the capability to create the infrastructure in place that uses the current form of energy production (On their own that is). It is far to intensive. Of course, the government can do it, and the private sector would benefit greatly from it. But that goes against the free-market fairy's prophecy.

[Yuktova]

Am I being totally ignored, or are you guys just not caring?

Edit: I guess no one wants to hear what I have to say. That's a shame. A real shame.

[Lacadaemon]

Hmm didn't think of that. For the record it was a jab at the free market, not alternative energy.

It's the hard line stance against government subsidies that really makes it unrealistic.

[Lacadaemon]

Am I being totally ignored, or are you guys just not caring?

Edit: I guess no one wants to hear what I have to say. That's a shame. A real shame.

ppls are scared of zeitgeist dude.

[The Black Forrest]

Am I being totally ignored, or are you guys just not caring?

Edit: I guess no one wants to hear what I have to say. That's a shame. A real shame.

ppls are scared of zeitgeist dude.

Young man! Wash your mouth out for saying that word!

[Lacadaemon]

ppls are scared of zeitgeist dude.

Young man! Wash your mouth out for saying that word!

Sorry mom.

[Yuktova]

Is Zeitgeist a dirty word now? Who did that? The Monetray Police?

[Lacadaemon]

Oh I know, and I completely agree. Coming from a purely objective stand point, the free market does not have the capability to create the infrastructure necessary, just as they did not have the capability to create the infrastructure in place that uses the current form of energy production (On their own that is). It is far to intensive. Of course, the government can do it, and the private sector would benefit greatly from it. But that goes against the free-market fairy's prophecy.

Yeah, all that infrastructure goes along with the extensively subsidized suburbanization/road network/automobile economy. And now everyone wants to undo it at immense cost. So maybe the free market fairy knows something after all.

[Natapoc]

Am I being totally ignored, or are you guys just not caring?

Edit: I guess no one wants to hear what I have to say. That's a shame. A real shame.

No one is trying to ignore you. The zeitgeist movement has leaders. Organizations with leaders always result in problems because even the best of humans are unable to handle leadership.

But if you want to talk about the zeitgeist movement then you should make a new thread for it. Your topic should be called "Zeitgeist movement" or something like that so people see what you are talking about.

Then introduce what it in a paragraph or two and ask some questions about it.

[Yuktova]

Am I being totally ignored, or are you guys just not caring?

Edit: I guess no one wants to hear what I have to say. That's a shame. A real shame.

No one is trying to ignore you. The zeitgeist movement has leaders. Organizations with leaders always result in problems because even the best of humans are unable to handle leadership.

But if you want to talk about the zeitgeist movement then you should make a new thread for it. Your topic should be called "Zeitgeist movement" or something like that so people see what you are talking about.

Then introduce what it in a paragraph or two and ask some questions about it.

Ha ha ha, funny you should mention that.

I had a thread locked by a Mod because I apprently did a bad job at explaining what the Zeitgeist Movement is. You should do it, of all people.

Edit: I also believe that Peter Joseph, of all people, could be able to handle power. He is probably more suited for it than most humans. Kinda creepy, he is sorta robotic about politics and religion. Maybe he wears a flesh mask and has a cirut breaker for a heart, and a Computer screen for a head? But you didn't hear this from me.

[Meryuma]

Hmm didn't think of that. For the record it was a jab at the free market, not alternative energy.

Oh I know, and I completely agree. Coming from a purely objective stand point, the free market does not have the capability to create the infrastructure necessary, just as they did not have the capability to create the infrastructure in place that uses the current form of energy production (On their own that is). It is far to intensive. Of course, the government can do it, and the private sector would benefit greatly from it. But that goes against the free-market fairy's prophecy.

"Did not have"? You say that as if there was a free market.

[Natapoc]

No one is trying to ignore you. The zeitgeist movement has leaders. Organizations with leaders always result in problems because even the best of humans are unable to handle leadership.

But if you want to talk about the zeitgeist movement then you should make a new thread for it. Your topic should be called "Zeitgeist movement" or something like that so people see what you are talking about.

Then introduce what it in a paragraph or two and ask some questions about it.

Ha ha ha, funny you should mention that.

I had a thread locked by a Mod because I apprently did a bad job at explaining what the Zeitgeist Movement is. You should do it, of all people.

I saw. They did not like that you did not explain what zeitgeist was and that you left right after making the thread. You really want me to? Send me a TG i'll help you write one.

[Yuktova]

Sorry, but what's a TG?

Edit: Hold on, I figured it out! It's a TeleGram!

[Sibirsky]

With virtually no advertising and only opening in 299 theaters it pulled in almost $1.7 million, ranking 14th. I'd say it's doing aight.

http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/ ... =15&p=.htm

[Distruzio]

http://wonkette.com/443358/terrible-atlas-shrugged-part-i-dismal-at-the-box-office

I've been saying for months now that if Atlas Shrugged is commercially mediocre, I will laugh at the utter irony of it all. A film about a book parading the virtues of capitalism and self-interest fails in the eyes of capitalism. Well, it appears to have come true

Though I'm heavily libertarian myself and agree with Rand on a surprising amount of things, I do not agree with objectivism. If people want to work in collectives rather than working for profit, let them... they'd be committing economic suicide, but let them. Likewise, charity should be an honourable thing, not frowned upon as "intellectual surrender". In short, on the Rothbard vs Rand debate, I side with Rothbard. There, that should clear me from the whole "lolyoujusthaterand" shindig.

This will probably come as good news to most here. Not sure how many objectivists we have here, most of the time I see Atlas Shrugged being rightly panned for being badly written...

I can't stand Rand but I enjoyed the movie. B/c of the message, broski. Avatar was a shit movie filled with phenomenal visuals and stunning scenery. It had a boring plot and a ridiculous "capitalists and rednecks will destroy the universe if we don't all live in perfect harmony with our mother nature" message. Atlas Shrugged has mediocre visuals, boring acting, and a wonderful message. When business and gov't get into bed with one another, they are frauds and murderers. Sounds like music to my ears.

[Ashmoria]

The problem with Randians is that they think Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead are Gospel. They're works of fiction.

My favorite book is "The Count of Monte Cristo," but I'm not going to use Edmond Dantes as my personal model for how to live.

its so hard to get thrown into the prison at the Château d'If these days anyway.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Is part one going to go on for two days?

[Gravlen]

The movie fails because Ayn Rand looks like a man.

[Staenwald]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about objectivism, and even I don't agree with all of it. Like the OP said, if collectivists want to commit economic suicide, let them. About the charity thing, however, the main thing they go after is altruism, in the form and definition of "sacrificing one's own values for others" or serving others blindly. I think if one wills to use charity, then it is fine so long as they do not do so because they are motivated by a sense of obligation, guilt, or shame and have their act be in line with their own values and will. If you will to extend a hand, it should be under your own will and not due to servitude. After all, "Love is the Law, Love under Will".

As for the film, I haven't seen it but I'm sure it's going to ride on a lot of misconceptions. The best place to learn about objectivism is here.

In reference to the OP, Objectivism advocated laissez faire capitalism, with has no preference in how company ownership is arranged, merely that there is an absence of coercion in it, and that the property rights of the stakeholders in the company are not infringed and are protected.
No objectivism doesn't discourage charity if it gives you satisfaction to do it, or if you want to do it. What it does not do is tell you that charity is a moral obligation or a moral virtue, it's purely based on the value judgement of the donor, and that if you choose to dedicate your life to charity, you can by all means, but don't expect to be able to sustain yourself for long if you can't afford to give you money away all the time.
or you could buy leonard peikoffs book...
or, http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer? ... =media_new
or, http://www.atlassociety.org/

I've not seen the film, since I can't because I live in the UK. Considering the point that many theatres aren't showing it and only a handful are, it's of course not gonna get a huge turnout.

and using sibirsky's source

13 9 Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules Fox $2,081,944 -56.4% 1,849 -1,032 $1,126 $48,122,773 $21 4
14 N Atlas Shrugged: Part I RM $1,686,347 - 299 - $5,640 $1,686,347 $10 1

it's only been out 4 days, whereas as wimpy kid's been open 4 weeks...and it's already made 80% of what wimpy kid has....

[Staenwald]

The problem with Randians is that they think Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead are Gospel. They're works of fiction.

My favorite book is "The Count of Monte Cristo," but I'm not going to use Edmond Dantes as my personal model for how to live.

yeah...she wrote extensive non-fiction too..as has her 'intellectual heir' Leonard peikoff. Atlas shrugged is a hypothetical embodiment of her philosophy.

[Distruzio]

Exactly what it sounds like. A machine which produces limitless amounts of energy, for essentially free. In the book, it was an engine which used atmospheric static electricity for fuel.
Basically the libertarian utopia could not function without it. I guess. I didn't really get passed that. There comes a point in a book where the level of ridiculous outwieghs my willingness for suspension of disbelief.

She was just jumping on the green energy thing way before anyone else. All she's saying is that private industry can come up with cheap renewable stuffs &c. She's like an early Al Gore.

Minus Polar Bear alarmism and Manbearpig.

[Staenwald]

Economic freedom ≠ Libertarian, necessarily, though. What's a free-energy machine?

Exactly what it sounds like. A machine which produces limitless amounts of energy, for essentially free. In the book, it was an engine which used atmospheric static electricity for fuel.
Basically the libertarian utopia could not function without it. I guess. I didn't really get passed that. There comes a point in a book where the level of ridiculous outwieghs my willingness for suspension of disbelief.

Nowhere was it implied that his machine would only make his utopia possible. anyway, they had an expert owner of an oil refinery who was researching into new methods of oil extraction in the hillside of galt's gulch- i think they could have generated electricity from oil if they had to...

[Chumblywumbly]

Nowhere was it implied that his machine would only make his utopia possible. anyway, they had an expert owner of an oil refinery who was researching into new methods of oil extraction in the hillside of galt's gulch- i think they could have generated electricity from oil if they had to...

I, for one, am glad we've hypothetically sorted out the hypothetical problem.

[Staenwald]

Nowhere was it implied that his machine would only make his utopia possible. anyway, they had an expert owner of an oil refinery who was researching into new methods of oil extraction in the hillside of galt's gulch- i think they could have generated electricity from oil if they had to...

I, for one, am glad we've hypothetically sorted out the hypothetical problem.

i know you can't really do that, but I'm basing my assumption on the likelihood that oil power plants were invented by the time rand was around...and also that her characters would be epically smart enough to work it out. where was the hypothetical problem anyway? Atlas shrugged wasn't written in an energy/climate crisis.

[Katganistan]

Named Shruggy.

Now all we need to give her is a catchphrase.

Ideas?

"You got some Galt not swallowing this swill."