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Tibetan Independence?

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Xin Han
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Tibetan Independence?

Postby Xin Han » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:54 pm

So, in a recent thread, a few people were calling for Tibetan independence due to the amount of human rights violations committed against them by the People's Republic of China and because they were once their own country.

What are the views of NS on this? Should Tibet become a free nation after around 300 years of Chinese domination? Or should it remain in the hands of the Chinese due to right of conquest?
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:56 pm

I think China should handle its own affairs. I ain't Chinese, it doesn't affect me. Viva la vie.

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Faith Hope Charity
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Postby Faith Hope Charity » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:59 pm

Theres 2 ways to do this (maybe more).. they could be allowed a vote for independence (not likely), or they could try and rebel (also not likely).
Its hard to say at this point what to do with Tibet, i dont know if the majority of the Tibetans want to be part of China or not. I think they should be allowed independence if they so want it. China's authoritarianism and sheer military strength in the region to enforce having Tibet be part of China might prevent Tibet from ever being free. I doubt this one area that the US or even the UN wants to dig too deeply in.
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:05 pm

If the Tibetans want independence, then they should have it. It's important for nationalities to have the right to self-determination, and, given that the Tibetans show that they want to be free from China, (Through a referendum or some other method) the international community should support them.

EDIT: In an ideal world, at least.
Last edited by Avenio on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alexlantis
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Postby Alexlantis » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:07 pm

Free Tibet!
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:07 pm

Tibet is fine as it is: China serves as a good powerbroker against India: not something which should be compromised.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Ragnarsdomr
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Postby Ragnarsdomr » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:09 pm

I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:09 pm

I'm not too worried about it.
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Alexlantis
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Postby Alexlantis » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:10 pm

Ragnarsdomr wrote:I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.

Ah. Nice point.
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Galonica
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Postby Galonica » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Free Tibet!
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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:16 pm

They should be allowed to have a referendum and it SHOULD be respected by the Chinese government.
But that won't happen and I'm not sure what courses of action we can take to punish China for it. An embargo? Ha.
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Tokyoni
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Postby Tokyoni » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:18 pm

The monks who previously ruled Tibet were so repressive that the Chinese soldiers themselves had to hold back the Tibetan peasants from killing them.

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Trotskylvania
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Postby Trotskylvania » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:20 pm

Tibet was its own country... for about five minutes.

Tibet had been part of the Republic of China, and sided with the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War. When it became clear that the Communists were going to win, and they were going to put the kybosh on Tibetan theocratic feudalism, they seceded. Well, the PRC wasn't going to let them get away that easily.

China wasn't exactly the nicest, but let's be frank. They were more than justified in putting an end to the old Tibetan society, and insisting that the Tibetan leadership caste had no legitimate grounds for secession then. Now, they have a better case, but at the very least the current Dalai Lama has made clear that a Tibetan independence wouldn't mean a return to the old ways, even if he does contribute to the whitewashing of old Tibet.
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:21 pm

Avenio wrote:If the Tibetans want independence, then they should have it. It's important for nationalities to have the right to self-determination, and, given that the Tibetans show that they want to be free from China, (Through a referendum or some other method) the international community should support them.

EDIT: In an ideal world, at least.


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Finland Hetalia
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Postby Finland Hetalia » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:22 pm

Ragnarsdomr wrote:I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.


What happens is that Taiwan is de facto independent and only non-recognized by China, so...

As for the OP, yes, FREE TIBET.
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Postby DaWoad » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Tokyoni wrote:The monks who previously ruled Tibet were so repressive that the Chinese soldiers themselves had to hold back the Tibetan peasants from killing them.

Support the Tibetan People! Support the PRC!

the nation that commited mass atrocities in it's "great leap forward" and continues to have near third world level of human rights? Why should we support that?
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Postby Sagatagan » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Let the Tibetan people vote on it, and let them, if they do vote for independence, draw up their own constitution, not through interim leaders, but through elected delegates from the people themselves, free of outside intervention militarily or economically, free of internal rule by any ruling class dominating the proceedings, and let them approve or disapprove by referendum this constitution and any successive one until they have a constitution. This, if and only if they freely and fairly vote to secede from the PRC, a vote which China needs to allow.
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Greater Tezdrian
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Postby Greater Tezdrian » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Free Tibet.
Last edited by Greater Tezdrian on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Chelbrusitan
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Postby The Chelbrusitan » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Yeah, I'm for a free Tibet. As well as a free Republic of China...
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Ragnarsdomr
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Postby Ragnarsdomr » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Finland Hetalia wrote:
Ragnarsdomr wrote:I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.


What happens is that Taiwan is de facto independent and only non-recognized by China, so...

As for the OP, yes, FREE TIBET.


Legally, it's not recognized by the US as a part of China or not a part of China. 2007 there was a court case in the states where a group Taiwanese immigrants to the States tried to legally become citizens and were refused because that court was not deemed to be the place to determine if Taiwan was an independent entity or not.
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Kaimynas
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Postby Kaimynas » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:33 pm

Ragnarsdomr wrote:I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.


Yes, that is a good point. It kind of agitates me that Taiwan isn't seen as independent. At least to the Chinese, as Finland Hetalia stated. (Off topic, but the Hetalia character for Finland is freaking adorable. Just saying.) But, I suppose if the Tibetans want independence they should have it, though they would have to do something about that themselves, and I'm not sure how likely it is that they would do that. Hm ... Na, matysime.

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Thyilea
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Postby Thyilea » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:35 pm

Absolutely. Someone mentioned self-determination earlier, I whole-heartedly agree. The Tibetans should live in their own nation. They have the right to exist, and they have a right to determine their own future.

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Call to power
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Postby Call to power » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:39 pm

I don't believe this is a good time for the West to be pressing an independence issue whilst it simultaneously tries to persuade Beijing to reduce its recent crackdowns.

That is what I will say on the topic as western "intervention" on this issue usually involves a dodgy protest with a ton of people getting blacked bagged as a result

Great Nepal wrote:Tibet is fine as it is: China serves as a good powerbroker against India: not something which should be compromised.


an odd thing for someone so keen on Nepal to suggest, am I to be so bold as to suggest you support the Maoists?

Ragnarsdomr wrote:I think if anyone should be independent, it should be Taiwan, seeing as it's already a freaking independent nation which nobody will recognize. I mean, fuck, they hold a referendum, China yells at them for having free will, and the rest of the world sits by and goes back to poking middle-eastern dictators into fighting eachother for the squealing delight of Europe.


to be fair that is less about national determination and more about a civil war that never really ended not that Taiwan isn't actually independent
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 pm

Call to power wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Tibet is fine as it is: China serves as a good powerbroker against India: not something which should be compromised.


an odd thing for someone so keen on Nepal to suggest, am I to be so bold as to suggest you support the Maoists?

I dont see it odd at all. India has been welding influence since ages, and has dont no good. If Nepal can get closer to China, then it could do better. As for maoist thing: I dont support most of their policies: but foreign policy is something which I do support.
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:47 pm

Screw Free Tibet. I want to be Free TO-bet.

In all seriousness China has no dman right to be there. That and I don't see what they get out of it other then a lot of angry Buddhists.
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