Does Israel have the right to exist?

[Pafghanistan]

Israel has the right to exist
Palestine does not

And why is that? Please explain.

[Geniasis]

Israel has the right to exist
Palestine does not

And why is that? Please explain.

Because Arabs aren't people, apparently.

[De Jewish Mafia]

You mean Arab armies crossed the borders first in 1973. Israeli armies crossed the border first and attacked first in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2006? 1948 was very mutual. And of course, innumerable border incidents were precipitated between the major wars by all sides.

Have you ever considered the fact that Israel is literally 40 miles wide (65km) and cant afford to wait for tank or bombs to cross the border? Compared to Syria, Jordan, and Egypt which are HUGE. People always forget that Israel and the Falsestinians do not exist in a vacuum.
http://www.bicom.org.uk/files/Israel%20and%20the%20surrounding%20region_large.PNG

I suppose you are going to justify Israel being used as a sniping platform by settlers

What sniping? The Arabs have the snipers. Constantly shooting at cars that are peacefully driving around or shooting into Jewish towns.

when half of Palestine was given to Israel as an appeasement?

There was no Palestine to give. There was a slab of Ottoman territory the British arbitrarily decided to call Palestine. They then cut off 77% to give to the Arabs. After that, they restricted Jewish immigration to the remaining 23% and allowed unlimited Arab immigration. Then, the remaining 23% was cut up again, roughly in half, to split between Arabs and Jews. The Jews received a smattering of land, half of which was desert. But the deal never went thru. People forget this. The partition was never accepted. Israel declared independence and after a war, an armistice was forced on the two parties and ridiculous, indefensible battle lines from 1949 are the borders today insisted by the morons of the world, who think the Arabs somehow need more land than they already have.

Israel has the right to exist
Palestine does not

And why is that? Please explain.

Because they have one already, had a second opportunity, and lost their right to one with their incessant violence. They also have no interest in a state, only destroying another state.

[Mediterreania]

You mean Arab armies crossed the borders first in 1973. Israeli armies crossed the border first and attacked first in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2006? 1948 was very mutual. And of course, innumerable border incidents were precipitated between the major wars by all sides.

Have you ever considered the fact that Israel is literally 40 miles wide (65km) and cant afford to wait for tank or bombs to cross the border? Compared to Syria, Jordan, and Egypt which are HUGE. People always forget that Israel and the Falsestinians do not exist in a vacuum.
http://www.bicom.org.uk/files/Israel%20and%20the%20surrounding%20region_large.PNG

I suppose you are going to justify Israel being used as a sniping platform by settlers

What sniping? The Arabs have the snipers. Constantly shooting at cars that are peacefully driving around or shooting into Jewish towns.

One man's insurgent is another man's freedom fighter.

when half of Palestine was given to Israel as an appeasement?

There was no Palestine to give. There was a slab of Ottoman territory the British arbitrarily decided to call Palestine. They then cut off 77% to give to the Arabs. After that, they restricted Jewish immigration to the remaining 23% and allowed unlimited Arab immigration. Then, the remaining 23% was cut up again, roughly in half, to split between Arabs and Jews. The Jews received a smattering of land, half of which was desert. But the deal never went thru. People forget this. The partition was never accepted. Israel declared independence and after a war, an armistice was forced on the two parties and ridiculous, indefensible battle lines from 1949 are the borders today insisted by the morons of the world, who think the Arabs somehow need more land than they already have.

How would you like it if you were under threat of having your house bulldozed to accommodate settlers from a theocracy that wages war against your ethnic brothers?

Seriously, why can't we just return to pre-1967 borders? Or make a secular nation known as the Levant?

And why is that? Please explain.

Because they have one already, had a second opportunity, and lost their right to one with their incessant violence. They also have no interest in a state, only destroying another state.

[/quote]
ANARCHY!

In all seriousness, the Palestinians are interested in having a nation. Hamas =/= the PA.

[Set the Unbound]

You mean Arab armies crossed the borders first in 1973. Israeli armies crossed the border first and attacked first in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2006? 1948 was very mutual. And of course, innumerable border incidents were precipitated between the major wars by all sides.

Have you ever considered the fact that Israel is literally 40 miles wide (65km) -snip-

So you admit it. Good, we are in agreement

I suppose you are going to justify Israel being used as a sniping platform by settlers

What sniping? The Arabs have the snipers. Constantly shooting at cars that are peacefully driving around or shooting into Jewish towns.

Sniping by Israeli settlers at Palestinian farmers is quite normal.

An incident that gained international attention can be read about here - http://palsolidarity.org/2010/10/14854/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJEaF0rhB0
Above is a rare video made by foreign activists who witness an incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jep8VkVt3lQ&feature=related
Another video.

Searching any Israel newspaper for "price tag" will find even more interesting incidents of Israeli settler terrorism.

Of course, not all Israeli settlers enjoy killing innocents. Sniping at machinery and water tanks is more common, I've read.
Decent Israeli settlers don't want to kill, they just want the land, which Palestinians forfeit as "abandoned" after three years unharvested because of sniping.

when half of Palestine was given to Israel as an appeasement?

There was no Palestine to give. -snip-

"Palestina" was a province during Roman times. Named after one of the largest native ethnic groups living there in Roman times, variously written as Felistin or Philistine. Also home to Jews, Idumaeans, Samaritans, Phonecians and Canaanites.

Conquest by Sassanids, Arabs, Turks and British did not change the ethnic mix very much.

And why is that? Please explain.

Because they have one already, had a second opportunity, and lost their right to one with their incessant violence. They also have no interest in a state, only destroying another state.

Pot, meet kettle...

[Fizbar]

People always forget that Israel and the Falsestinians do not exist in a vacuum.

Freudian slip?

[Gothic Space Empire]

Rights are for people, not states. There is no "right" for any power structure to exist. People have the right to continue living there, both Israeli and Palestinian.

[Nazi Flower Power]

You mean Arab armies crossed the borders first in 1973. Israeli armies crossed the border first and attacked first in 1956, 1967, 1978, 1982 and 2006? 1948 was very mutual. And of course, innumerable border incidents were precipitated between the major wars by all sides.

Have you ever considered the fact that Israel is literally 40 miles wide (65km) and cant afford to wait for tank or bombs to cross the border? Compared to Syria, Jordan, and Egypt which are HUGE. People always forget that Israel and the Falsestinians do not exist in a vacuum.
http://www.bicom.org.uk/files/Israel%20and%20the%20surrounding%20region_large.PNG

How does that give Israel the right to attack other countries? I don't know how you expect to win over anyone with childish name-calling like "Falsestinians."

There was no Palestine to give. There was a slab of Ottoman territory the British arbitrarily decided to call Palestine. They then cut off 77% to give to the Arabs. After that, they restricted Jewish immigration to the remaining 23% and allowed unlimited Arab immigration. Then, the remaining 23% was cut up again, roughly in half, to split between Arabs and Jews. The Jews received a smattering of land, half of which was desert. But the deal never went thru. People forget this. The partition was never accepted. Israel declared independence and after a war, an armistice was forced on the two parties and ridiculous, indefensible battle lines from 1949 are the borders today insisted by the morons of the world, who think the Arabs somehow need more land than they already have.

Jews do not have a God-given right to have Ottoman territory given to them. When someone gives you land that they didn't particularly owe you, whining because you didn't get as much as the Arabs just makes you look greedy.

[Costa Fiero]

Hamas abided by the recent ceasefire. Hamas opponents in Gaza did not.

Well, then Hamas needs to get off their arses and make them abide. Hamas doesn't have qalms about fighting fellow Palestinians. You can't have the Israelis take you seriously if your political opponents keep shelling Israeli territory.

[Scientific socks]

Hamas abided by the recent ceasefire. Hamas opponents in Gaza did not.

Well, then Hamas needs to get off their arses and make them abide. Hamas doesn't have qalms about fighting fellow Palestinians. You can't have the Israelis take you seriously if your political opponents keep shelling Israeli territory.

What a weak cop out. Hamas kills its own dissedents yet claims not to be the ones firing. Hamas approves of firing into Israel and continued.

[Saurisisia]

It has as much right to exist as any other nation on the planet.

[Senestrum]

Might makes right.

It has as much of a right to exist as any other nation, until somebody else takes that right away from it by force.

[Terrasricas]

I've never understood why the United States supports Israel so much. We steal Native Americans' land and kill tons of them. The ONLY thing we can do to correct that is not do it again. Yet, the Israelis do it, and we go right along.

[Scientific socks]

I've never understood why the United States supports Israel so much. We steal Native Americans' land and kill tons of them. The ONLY thing we can do to correct that is not do it again. Yet, the Israelis do it, and we go right along.

I think any country that is constantly fired upon by its neighbours no matter what action it takes while its neighbours continue to kill themselves, oppress people and lie about their neighbouring countries will eventually be completely invaded. The fact that Israel has managed to give land back as a peace offering (which inspired more violence), constantly review its actions, focus upon the fact that is hates terrorists and live peacfully with a sizable Muslim population (18.5%) means alot about the strength of the Israeli democracy and resiliance of the Israeli people. Isreal has constantly recognised the rights of other countries to exist, the same can not be said in return.

[Terrasricas]

I've never understood why the United States supports Israel so much. We steal Native Americans' land and kill tons of them. The ONLY thing we can do to correct that is not do it again. Yet, the Israelis do it, and we go right along.

I think any country that is constantly fired upon by its neighbours no matter what action it takes while its neighbours continue to kill themselves, oppress people and lie about their neighbouring countries will eventually be completely invaded. The fact that Israel has managed to give land back as a peace offering (which inspired more violence), constantly review its actions, focus upon the fact that is hates terrorists and live peacfully with a sizable Muslim population (18.5%) means alot about the strength of the Israeli democracy and resiliance of the Israeli people. Isreal has constantly recognised the rights of other countries to exist, the same can not be said in return.

That's all well and good, but other countries have no reason to recognize Israel's right to exist when it was created out of land that was stolen. It wouldn't be fired upon by its neighbors if it hadn't taken land in the first place.

[Dododecapod]

I think any country that is constantly fired upon by its neighbours no matter what action it takes while its neighbours continue to kill themselves, oppress people and lie about their neighbouring countries will eventually be completely invaded. The fact that Israel has managed to give land back as a peace offering (which inspired more violence), constantly review its actions, focus upon the fact that is hates terrorists and live peacfully with a sizable Muslim population (18.5%) means alot about the strength of the Israeli democracy and resiliance of the Israeli people. Isreal has constantly recognised the rights of other countries to exist, the same can not be said in return.

That's all well and good, but other countries have no reason to recognize Israel's right to exist when it was created out of land that was stolen. It wouldn't be fired upon by its neighbors if it hadn't taken land in the first place.

It wasn't created from "stolen" land at all. As mandate holder, Britain had the right to divide and apportion the land as they saw fit. They did. It was all quite legal under all applicable laws.

[Senestrum]

Honestly, I think the whole area should be nuked until it glows because that whole area is just one giant circlejerk of assholery.

[Set the Unbound]

Honestly, I think the whole area should be nuked until it glows because that whole area is just one giant circlejerk of assholery.

I've had that thought more than once

But most Israelis (and Palestinians) I've met in real life have been quite nice.

Unfortunately its the few who aren't that set the trends...

[Scientific socks]

That's all well and good, but other countries have no reason to recognize Israel's right to exist when it was created out of land that was stolen. It wouldn't be fired upon by its neighbors if it hadn't taken land in the first place.

It wasn't created from "stolen" land at all. As mandate holder, Britain had the right to divide and apportion the land as they saw fit. They did. It was all quite legal under all applicable laws.

And as Palestine was created more recently there could be an argument that Palestine stole land. I guess Terrasricas is in favour of creating Jewish refuguees again in a similar scenario to the holocaust which many of Israels enemies deny. If Israel should be fired upon for existing at the moment there will never be any peace as long as a Jewish person exists in the middle east. Palestine was been quite successful in removing all Jews from its borders.

[The Atlantean Menace]

It wasn't created from "stolen" land at all. As mandate holder, Britain had the right to divide and apportion the land as they saw fit. They did. It was all quite legal under all applicable laws.

And as Palestine was created more recently there could be an argument that Palestine stole land.

Palestine was created more recently? That...doesn't sound correct.

[Set the Unbound]

And as Palestine was created more recently there could be an argument that Palestine stole land.

Palestine was created more recently? That...doesn't sound correct.

135 AD (edit checked date)

By the Romans.

Although they just named a wider area after the Falastins / Philistines who lived in the south. And they insisted on "Latinising" the native Semitic names.

[Kalibarr]

"Does Israel have the right to exist?"


I'm still not certain if countries have(or should have...) the "right" to exist or not exist, they just exist. But if they do, then yes Israel has the right to exist. However so does Palestine.

[St George of England]

It wasn't created from "stolen" land at all. As mandate holder, Britain had the right to divide and apportion the land as they saw fit. They did. It was all quite legal under all applicable laws.

And as Palestine was created more recently there could be an argument that Palestine stole land. I guess Terrasricas is in favour of creating Jewish refuguees again in a similar scenario to the holocaust which many of Israels enemies deny. If Israel should be fired upon for existing at the moment there will never be any peace as long as a Jewish person exists in the middle east. Palestine was been quite successful in removing all Jews from its borders.

Actually, no. The countries/states of Palestine and Israel were created at the same time. The Kingdom of Judea was absorbed into Rome after Herod's death or thereabouts.

To claim that Isreal the country was created back then to claim the United Kingdom was created with the Anglo-Saxon Invasion. It is laughable, and completely false.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Speaking of narrow-minded bigotry, I am assuming you are conveniently forgetting how the surrounding Arab states have attacked and invaded Israel multiple times since 1948? And I suppose you are going to justify Gaza being used as a missile platform by Hamas when the Gaza was given to Palestine as an appeasement?

I am assuming you are conveniently forgetting how Israel attacked and invaded Egypt, Syria and Jordan during the 6 Day War? And I suppose you are going to justify massacres of Palestinian refugees in camps under Israeli guard?

Do your homework. The Six Day War was initiated as a suprise attack on Israel by the Arab states and not the other way around.

Sources of those massacres would be swell.

[Katganistan]

Does Israel have the right to exist?
Do you?