2019-2020 US Election Megathread III: Biden VS Biden

[Nazeroth]

They don't care about minorities or rich/poor

most of their candidates are multi-millionares and even Pete Buttigeg said " i will take any money if it means defeating donald trump"

One has to win by the rules that currently exist if one wishes to change the rules.

Donald Trump didn't spend NEARLY as much as Hillary and still won

it's not all about money.

[Idzequitch]

I can think of 5 scenarios of how this election will go

GOP retains WH and Senate, Dems retain House
This is the most likely one in my view, Trump has the incumbent advantage and still retains support in the states that went for him in 2016. The support he lost over the years I believe will likely be made up by his base being fired up from impeachment. I doubt either chambers of congress will change hands this election. If this is how the election goes, I doubt many people will be really surprised, things will just continue as they do right now after the initial shock/joy of the outcome passes by. Trump will have to work across party lines on some issues and legacy building policies, but he can still load SCOTUS with more conservatives due to senate control.

GOP retains Senate, Dems gain WH and retain House
This will largely depend on who the Democrat is. If this happens, the greater message will be that voters are rejecting Trump, but not the GOP as a whole. I believe the GOP will take this as a message that Trumpism was an experiment that burned bright, but went out quickly. The Trumpers in the GOP will be forced to be more moderate without the “charisma” of the Donald. The Democrat president will have to work across party lines to get the GOP Senate to approve. The SCOTUS justices that will be appointed will likely be moderates.

GOP retains WH, Dems gain Senate and retain House
This one is highly unlikely, but it could be possible as extremely unpopular GOP senators are up for re-election, and many more pragmatic Trump voters may vote for Trump while not voting for a GOP Senator. Trump will be forced to work across party lines whether he likes it or not, and SCOTUS appointees will be moderates. I doubt Trump will be able to do much partisan stuff with this arrangement.

Dems take WH and Senate, retain House
This outcome will confirm what many people have been thinking for a while, is the GOP doomed? If this outcomes happens, the Democrat President will be quick to overturn many of the changes Trump made, and possibly return Obama policies that have been overturned since. The Democrat President will try to load progressives in SCOTUS as much as possible, and many pundits will predict that this shows the fall of the GOP forever. Trump supporters will go absolutely berserk, saying this is a deep state conspiracy or something along those lines, large scale riots can be expected in cities like Jacksonville, Dallas, and Oklahoma City

GOP retains Senate and WH, takes House
The only way this could happen is if the impeachment completely backfires. All the Democrats who voted for impeachment in districts that Trump won are extremely vulnerable, and Trumps base is fired up enough already, a high voter turnout should be expected. This will cause massive despair among Democrat voters, and protests on a scale never seen before will ensue. You can expect pundits to assume this is a result of foreign influence. For Trump, he’ll do a lot of legacy building and conservatives on the bench.

With hyperpartisanship being what it is, I suspect that whichever party ends up in the WH, will also have control of the Senate.

[Idzequitch]

One has to win by the rules that currently exist if one wishes to change the rules.

Donald Trump didn't spend NEARLY as much as Hillary and still won

it's not all about money.

No. But it helps.

[Nazeroth]

Donald Trump didn't spend NEARLY as much as Hillary and still won

it's not all about money.

No. But it helps.

of course, but taking all that corporate money isn't going to help you change the rules, because taking all that money comes with strings attached.

They are not going to be able to just say " Now that I took all this corporate money, im going to fight the corporations" LULZ

[Vassenor]

Donald Trump didn't spend NEARLY as much as Hillary and still won

it's not all about money.

No. But it helps.

So does having media outlets willing to shill for you for free *cough*Sinclair*cough* and others giving you free air time and being unwilling to challenge your positions purely to appear balanced.

[Shrillland]

Severla states have them, and if nothing else their districts don't look like orthopaedic devices were cross-bred with The Blob.

California has a "non-psrtisan" commission, and they still gerrymander, they even explicitly said they intend to, and why.

Like I said, the ideal solution would be to not have districts at all, or at least combine them in an MMP system.

[Kowani]

No. But it helps.

of course, but taking all that corporate money isn't going to help you change the rules, because taking all that money comes with strings attached.

They are not going to be able to just say " Now that I took all this corporate money, im going to fight the corporations" LULZ

-Laughs in Bernie Sanders-

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

One has to win by the rules that currently exist if one wishes to change the rules.

Donald Trump didn't spend NEARLY as much as Hillary and still won

it's not all about money.

Just targeted data



“Cambridge analityca”

[The Andromeda Island Group]

No. But it helps.

So does having media outlets willing to shill for you for free *cough*Sinclair*cough* and others giving you free air time and being unwilling to challenge your positions purely to appear balanced.

But we need Fox & Sinclair to counter the truth of legitimate, credible media with our thanks and praises to god-king Donald Trump. We also need Conservative Talk Radio's unchallenged support of all things Republican 24/7. We can't have people thinking for themselves, instead, they should have Fox, Sinclair, InfoWars, Breitbart & Conservative Talk radio give them talking points about how the media is liberal.

[Blargoblarg]

No. But it helps.

of course, but taking all that corporate money isn't going to help you change the rules, because taking all that money comes with strings attached.

They are not going to be able to just say " Now that I took all this corporate money, im going to fight the corporations" LULZ

One of the many reasons why I support Bernie, he's not taking any corporate money.

[Aclion]

*from another thread to avoid a derail*

Partisans will never change, but Opposition to impeachment jumped 10 points during the public hearing,. And the battleground states switches to being net opposed.

In the end Democrats held up important work to pursue impeachment, only to fail to provide any evidence damaging to Trump. This lost them the support independents in key states. That's put the White House solidly out of play for 2020 and the house is up for grabs.

Hmm, I have found sources that say slightly over half of the country supports the impeachment and removal of Trumpand I have found polls that are pretty evenly split. I would agree that most Trump supporters opinions are unchanged after the impeachment hearings, and most those that opposed Trump are still opposed to Trump.

Which is why the overall percent's not important. It's mostly a measure of people already on a side, that's not going to change their vote on it regardless. That independents(in Pennsylvania, Florida, Arizona, ect) now oppose it. That matters.
Importantly support for impeachment dropped ten points, we agree that it's not from Republican and Democrat hardliners changing their minds. and from the polling it's from independents flipping on the issue.

They only failed to provide evidence if you don't understand evidence. Or witness tampering. Or really anything about the impeachment process.

You can argue that voters are too dumb to understand your big brain evidence all you want. The democrat's evidence, evidently, was not damaging to Trump, as support for impeachment when up before the public hearing when Shiff was leaking reports, but dropped after hearing were aired. They had less even then people thought.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

That just shows the power of progaoaganda on both sides. Keep hearing the same stuff in an echo chamber, people believe I’m different realities. Although, some people are ore right than others.


After all, 2+2=4 is a fact, not an opinion.

[Saturna1ia]

They only failed to provide evidence if you don't understand evidence. Or witness tampering. Or really anything about the impeachment process.

You can argue that voters are too dumb to understand your big brain evidence all you want. The democrat's evidence, evidently, was not damaging to Trump, as support for impeachment when up before the public hearing when Shiff was leaking reports, but dropped after hearing were aired. They had less even then people thought.

The evidence has absolutely been damaging to Trump, and there's enough of it - even without the testimony of witnesses who obeyed Trump's order not to testify under subpoena on the legally shaky ground of executive privilege - to both impeach and remove him. However, most of the public is more concerned with other issues. Opposition to impeachment, especially by independents, is a result of impeachment fatigue and people realizing GOP Senators are going to use jury nullification so just get done with it already.

[Saturna1ia]

Getting back on topic: Shameful plug for Biden or interesting character study?

TL;DR - Young, black woman Symone Sanders (no relation to Bernie), perhaps a rising star within the Democratic Party, who worked for the Bernie campaign in 2016 is now working for the Biden campaign.

Thoughts? Seems to me she is an unprincipled opportunist. I mean there's plenty of those in DC, so maybe it's a little unfair to just focus on her. However, she seems to be gaining influence in Democratic inner circles and had plenty of options to choose from including Bernie again and went to Biden.

[Sylvai]

TL;DR - Young, black woman Symone Sanders (no relation to Bernie), perhaps a rising star within the Democratic Party, who worked for the Bernie campaign in 2016 is now working for the Biden campaign.

Thoughts? Seems to me she is an unprincipled opportunist. I mean there's plenty of those in DC, so maybe it's a little unfair to just focus on her. However, she seems to be gaining influence in Democratic inner circles and had plenty of options to choose from including Bernie again and went to Biden.

I don't care what some Democratic insider thinks about the most entrenched Democratic politician running for office right now. I would agree with your assessment that she's an unprincipled opportunist. A strange amount of Biden supporters seem to only support him for electability reasons, despite Bernie's similar success in head-to-head polls against Trump.

And yeah, POLITICO is plugging for Biden here.

[Necroghastia]

I honestly don't understand why anyone is going for Biden. Seriously, what is there about him or his policies to get excited for that any of the other candidates don't do as well or better?

[Aureumterra]

I honestly don't understand why anyone is going for Biden. Seriously, what is there about him or his policies to get excited for that any of the other candidates don't do as well or better?

Being a corporate shill

[Valrifell]

I honestly don't understand why anyone is going for Biden. Seriously, what is there about him or his policies to get excited for that any of the other candidates don't do as well or better?

Being a corporate shill

Bloomberg does it better.

[Kowani]

Being a corporate shill

Bloomberg does it better.

Biden at least tries to make it look like he cares about people.

[Galloism]

Bloomberg does it better.

Biden at least tries to make it look like he cares about people.

And if you don't believe him, he'll show it by challenging you to a pushup contest.

[Kowani]

Biden at least tries to make it look like he cares about people.

And if you don't believe him, he'll show it by challenging you to a pushup contest.

I didn’t say he was good at it.

[Vassenor]

I honestly don't understand why anyone is going for Biden. Seriously, what is there about him or his policies to get excited for that any of the other candidates don't do as well or better?

Being a corporate shill

And what has he actually done to make him a shill? Or is that just shorthand for "isn't Sanders"?

[Kowani]

Being a corporate shill

And what has he actually done to make him a shill? Or is that just shorthand for "isn't Sanders"?

Biden to the Rich- Nothing will fundamentally change.

[Byzconia]

I honestly don't understand why anyone is going for Biden. Seriously, what is there about him or his policies to get excited for that any of the other candidates don't do as well or better?

He appeals to older Democrats (who have higher turnout and slightly higher numbers) because A) they have fond memories of Clinton's Presidency and think Biden will do all of the same things he did (not understanding that this isn't the '90s anymore) and B) he's a liberal-conservative instead of the new breed of younger social democrats, so he doesn't threaten any kind of change that would up-end the status quo while still allowing old Dems to claim that they're more "tolerant" and "liberal" for voting for a Democrat.

[Jerzylvania]

Being a corporate shill

And what has he actually done to make him a shill? Or is that just shorthand for "isn't Sanders"?

Shorthand for isn't Sanders. He's not a shill. You can tell bc he doesn't suck up to the NRA.