Should every woman have a gun?

[Spoder]

In that case, saying that the problem is how men are taught to treat women would have sufficed. Saying that "men" not "some men" not, "most men" but men is condemning every person born with a Y chromosome, even those aware of and opposed to the patriarchy.

Seriously, wording matters. Reading what Nadkor wrote fucking hurt.

Yeah? Well maybe try getting over it.

Reading what I wrote didn't hurt half as much as a woman being attacked for not responding to some asshole in the street telling her that he's sure she has a pretty smile and why doesn't she smile for him.

We're not saying that it's ok.

We're just saying that you being an asswipe doesn't do much better for anybody except make ridiculing and disregarding your argument more easy.

[Central Slavia]

Regarding men as a class of oppressors ignores in a very real sense the fact that patriarchy is perpetuated by men and women. It may primarily benefit men, but men are not, as a class, responsible for patriarchy. Women suffer disproportionately, but women are also the oppressors. Men suffer somewhat less, but men are also the oppressed.

This class of oppressors bullshit does nothing but blow hot air.

In Brazilian left-leaning politics it's common sense that women can't be sexist against themselves as they don't profit from it, neither individually, and much less as a group.

As much as I think patriarchy is a bullshit concept, is it hard enough for you to visualise someone acting against their class interest either out of ideologic confusion or because it allows them personal profit?
I mean, what do you think, say, private security companies (at least here) are? Usually pensioners who worked in some profession that made them have gun license, standing in supermarkets and protecting the goods from shoplifters. Clearly working class, clearly enforcing the interests of the owners of capital.
And that's just the most trivial example.

That is because institutional/structural sexism is perpetuated through male supremacist ideologies and/or intentions (yes, that includes infantilizing women, or regarding them as walking wombs and naturally nurturing, or prioritizing them for said "use" or views), just like racism is about white supremacy, heterosexism is about heterosexual supremacy, cissexism is about cisge... ad nauseam, you get it.

Anyone is entitled to their views, though.

... Since when was racism about white supremacy? At the very most, it's about supremacy of whatever ethnic is majority of the chosen area.

e: worded something more clearly.

[Lingang]

So I view women as objects available for my pleasure for the price of a compliment?

I don't know.

Do you?

That was a small part of my reply earlier, which I think you missed (or ignored):

I think the problem is that there's a good number of self-entitled assholes out there. That can go for both men and women.

No, the problem is men and how society teaches men to view women as objects available for their pleasure for the price of a compliment.

So I view women as objects available for my pleasure for the price of a compliment?

I understand what you're saying, but you may want to word your thoughts more carefully. Someone could get offended, and that makes for poor arguments. And I'm sure you don't mean to offend, no?

[Nadkor]

Don't do that.

Coming into a thread that, at heart, is basically about men lacking in basic respect for women and "fixing" something a woman says really doesn't look good for you.

I am capable of expressing my opinions without you correcting me. I meant exactly what I said.



Not all men.

I am a feminist.

I identify as a pansexual male, of the male sex.

And it hurts when I see bullshit like this. It's important to use proper wording. If, god forbid I said that women do something and not most women, the TERFS would rain holy hell upon me.

Feminism goes both ways. It's about equal rights and the same social conventions for both sexes.

Oh, fuck off with your not all men distraction shite.

Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she should smile? Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she's pretty? Have you ever given any variety of 'compliment' to any woman you don't know as she's going about her business?

You don't treat women like objects? What do you want? A pat on the back?

Well done for not treating other people like shit! Let's all have a party in your honour.

This is not about you. Stop making it about you.

[Herargon]

Don't do that.

Coming into a thread that, at heart, is basically about men lacking in basic respect for women and "fixing" something a woman says really doesn't look good for you.

I am capable of expressing my opinions without you correcting me. I meant exactly what I said.



Not all men.

I am a feminist.

I identify as a pansexual male, of the male sex.

And it hurts when I see bullshit like this. It's important to use proper wording. If, god forbid I said that women do something and not most women, the TERFS would rain holy hell upon me.

Feminism goes both ways. It's about equal rights and the same social conventions for both sexes.

No, then you may be an equalist, ma'am (assuming you're female).
Feminism: Women need equal rights to men.
Equalism: Men and woman both need to be equal.

[Nadkor]

I don't know.

Do you?

That was a small part of my reply earlier, which I think you missed (or ignored):

No, the problem is men and how society teaches men to view women as objects available for their pleasure for the price of a compliment.

So I view women as objects available for my pleasure for the price of a compliment?

I understand what you're saying, but you may want to word your thoughts more carefully. Someone could get offended, and that makes for poor arguments. And I'm sure you don't mean to offend, no?

Try reading again - nothing in that post answers my question.

This is not about you. Are you so self-centred that you think everything is about you?

Stop making it about you.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Firstly, the world does not revolve around Brazilian left-leaning politics.

They do if they are the main informants of ideological notions of what is politically appropriate. And people who think like this tendency probably are very much common in other places.

However rare they may be, we still have female supremacists, black supremacists, heterophobes, the "die cis scum" types. They do exist. They aren't common, but they certainly exist.

These people have no institutional support for inflicting said platforms on other people to the point that they suffer on a large scale from it.

Also, heterophobia and cisphobia are fun. These generally are about the asshole or self-centered kinds who throw around insults because it's socially acceptable and often sanctioned, people don't really hate "not all non-queers".

No anti-heternormative hate will ever be as oppressive as anti-queer hate. Think of a child of a queer couple in school. Do you think heterophobia or cisphobia will ever cause similar experiences to what they face? Please.

I don't care how much you cry about a supposed equality that is Utopian. The world is not nice for many people because they belong to certain groups, and just to them, and it will continue being so.

[Central Slavia]

I am a feminist.

I identify as a pansexual male, of the male sex.

And it hurts when I see bullshit like this. It's important to use proper wording. If, god forbid I said that women do something and not most women, the TERFS would rain holy hell upon me.

Feminism goes both ways. It's about equal rights and the same social conventions for both sexes.

Oh, fuck off with your not all men distraction shite.

Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she should smile? Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she's pretty? Have you ever given any variety of 'compliment' to any woman you don't know as she's going about her business?

You don't treat women like objects? What do you want? A pat on the back?

Well done for not treating other people like shit! Let's all have a party in your honour.

This is not about you. Stop making it about you.

I'll remind you of this the next time you invoke "not all feminists".

[Nadkor]

Oh, fuck off with your not all men distraction shite.

Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she should smile? Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she's pretty? Have you ever given any variety of 'compliment' to any woman you don't know as she's going about her business?

You don't treat women like objects? What do you want? A pat on the back?

Well done for not treating other people like shit! Let's all have a party in your honour.

This is not about you. Stop making it about you.

I'll remind you of this the next time you invoke "not all feminists".

Good luck with that.

[Spoder]

I am a feminist.

I identify as a pansexual male, of the male sex.

And it hurts when I see bullshit like this. It's important to use proper wording. If, god forbid I said that women do something and not most women, the TERFS would rain holy hell upon me.

Feminism goes both ways. It's about equal rights and the same social conventions for both sexes.

Oh, fuck off with your not all men distraction shite.

Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she should smile? Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she's pretty? Have you ever given any variety of 'compliment' to any woman you don't know as she's going about her business?

You don't treat women like objects? What do you want? A pat on the back?

Well done for not treating other people like shit! Let's all have a party in your honour.

This is not about you. Stop making it about you.

Did I make it about me?

You need to stop being reactionist. Flaming doesn't help anybody; It only hurts you.

And for your information I've ever given any sort of compliment except for the general "nice haircut" compliment that I give to anybody who got a nice haircut.

Jesus fucking Christ. It's a huge problem, okay? Misogyny and patriarchy is a problem, yes. But for fuck's sake this is why so many people don't take the feminist movement seriously. Because asswipes like you ruin the image of an important element of society. People like you who just rage on and on about this and that, cussing and flaming without any direction.

[Lingang]

That was a small part of my reply earlier, which I think you missed (or ignored):

So I view women as objects available for my pleasure for the price of a compliment?

I understand what you're saying, but you may want to word your thoughts more carefully. Someone could get offended, and that makes for poor arguments. And I'm sure you don't mean to offend, no?

Try reading again - nothing in that post answers my question.

This is not about you. Are you so self-centred that you think everything is about you?

Stop making it about you.

I never implied that.

Holy shit you are fucking rude.

[Shilya]

Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she should smile? Have you ever told a woman that you don't know that she's pretty? Have you ever given any variety of 'compliment' to any woman you don't know as she's going about her business?

Look, here's where it starts to annoy me, not because I want to get on womens nerves - I don't, I tend to stick to myself - but because of what this does to our society. Because this reduces contact for no good reason. At the end of the day, this comes down to "you shouldn't even try to talk to people you don't know, don't even dare to try to say something nice.", let's all be strangers forever, at least no ones feelings will get hurt.

This isn't a direction we as a society should take. We'd all be more lonely at the end of the day.

[Conserative Morality]

The concept of internalization is used in this case.

Perpetuating misogyny/sexism because you're internalized or because you have an amount of privilege in it is different from being actively misogynistic/sexist.

Yes, it is. Which would make those who have privilege but are not racist/sexist not racist/sexist, even in comparison to those without privilege who are racist/sexist.
'

Women don't empower themselves with such sentiments. Men do. No woman is empowered by said ideologies because inferiority, lesser status and so on of women is inherent to their core points.

Women don't empower themselves with such sentiments - they oppress themselves. I wish I could tell you how many evangelical women in the States talk about how women shouldn't lead and so on. People oppress themselves. It's a basic fact of any group - people with a boot on their face glorify the boot.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

... Since when was racism about white supremacy? At the very most, it's about supremacy of whatever ethnic is majority of the chosen area.

e: worded something more clearly.

-ism generally means it is an oppression with a dominant, perpetuated ideology behind it.

Tell me about a place that isn't a failed State where white people are institutionally, structurally and systemically oppressed?

Now, we can think of PoC being Inst, Str and Sys oppressed in just about every country, to many different reasons. In all of these countries, what is the biggest racial status in society other than the Indigenous group itself (and often at an upper status)? Exactly.

[New Aerios]

That was a small part of my reply earlier, which I think you missed (or ignored):

So I view women as objects available for my pleasure for the price of a compliment?

I understand what you're saying, but you may want to word your thoughts more carefully. Someone could get offended, and that makes for poor arguments. And I'm sure you don't mean to offend, no?

Try reading again - nothing in that post answers my question.

This is not about you. Are you so self-centred that you think everything is about you?

Stop making it about you.

Stop this. You said "the problem is men". You know you said that. You know that it's perfectly reasonable for people to object to being called " the problem". I'm not sure whether you chose your words poorly and are now trying to distract from said poor wording by being an arse, or whether you're just bigoted. Either way, stop this.

[Kesselland]

We could of course just BAN hetero sexual activity and force every human being to become gay. Problem solved, right?

[Spoder]

I am a feminist.

I identify as a pansexual male, of the male sex.

And it hurts when I see bullshit like this. It's important to use proper wording. If, god forbid I said that women do something and not most women, the TERFS would rain holy hell upon me.

Feminism goes both ways. It's about equal rights and the same social conventions for both sexes.

No, then you may be an equalist, ma'am (assuming you're female).
Feminism: Women need equal rights to men.
Equalism: Men and woman both need to be equal.

Isn't that the same thing?

I mean, women having the same rights as men and men and woman being equal is literally just two ways to say the same thing.

I identify as a pansexual male, and am of the male sex.

[New Aerios]

Also, heterophobia and cisphobia are fun.

This right here is why I'm not going to take you seriously any more.

[Conserative Morality]

Tell me about a place that isn't a failed State where white people are institutionally, structurally and systemically oppressed?

Define 'failed state' first. I don't want you wiggling out of this.

Now, we can think of PoC being Inst, Str and Sys oppressed in just about every country, to many different reasons. In all of these countries, what is the biggest racial status in society other than the Indigenous group itself (and often at an upper status)? Exactly.

Only because PoC is a bullshit category that literally includes every non-European ethnicity under the sun. "Other than non-Europeans, who's the biggest ethnicity in non-European countries? HA GOT YOU" is not an argument.

[Nadkor]

Try reading again - nothing in that post answers my question.

This is not about you. Are you so self-centred that you think everything is about you?

Stop making it about you.

I never implied that.

Holy shit you are fucking rude.

Hi I'm Nadkor, nice to meet you

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Did I make it about me?

Yes.

Of all the people who need empowerment in an unfair society, I doubt dyadic cisgender heterosexual men who have privilege in heteronormativity/heterosexism/compulsory heterosexuality, monosexism, allosexism, amornormativity, cissexism, binarism, racist/colonialist genderist and dyadism are the ones who need defending in the whole mess that is the dyadic superstructure.

When you moan about how someone is being offensive to said class of people by generalizing them, you're trivializing how there are priorities much above your sentiments.

For example, you used the term "two sexes". That alone is binarist, colonialist genderist and dyadist.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes.

Of all the people who need empowerment in an unfair society, I doubt dyadic cisgender heterosexual men who have privilege in heteronormativity/heterosexism/compulsory heterosexuality, monosexism, allosexism, amornormativity, cissexism, binarism, racist/colonialist genderist and dyadism are the ones who need defending in the whole mess that is the dyadic superstructure.

When you moan about how someone is being offensive to said class of people by generalizing them, you're trivializing how there are priorities much above your sentiments.

For example, you used the term "two sexes". That alone is binarist, colonialist genderist and dyadist.

Wow. Really. "If you're offended by generalizing entire classes of people, you trivialize everyone else"?

What the fuck is this shit? This is some full-circle revolution shit, that's what it is.

[Jordsindia]

No, but this is mostly because I believe that the problem is better combated through a change in societal attitudes. Creating fear for misogynists on the streets is only treating a symptom, not the disease.

Agreed. Although if a woman wants to, has the financies to do so, and can pass a background check than she can carry whatever she wants.

^ ^ ^

Sums it up for me.

[New Aerios]

Did I make it about me?

Yes.

Of all the people who need empowerment in an unfair society, I doubt dyadic cisgender heterosexual men who have privilege in heteronormativity/heterosexism/compulsory heterosexuality, monosexism, allosexism, amornormativity, cissexism, binarism, racist/colonialist genderist and dyadism are the ones who need defending in the whole mess that is the dyadic superstructure.

When you moan about how someone is being offensive to said class of people by generalizing them, you're trivializing how there are priorities much above your sentiments.

For example, you used the term "two sexes". That alone is binarist, colonialist genderist and dyadist.

Two sexes is colonialism? Please explain how the notion of two sexes involves the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Should every woman have a gun? No. Not everyone wants or needs a gun.

As to that video that inspired this: She was walking around for 10 hours.

Does it get annoying to have strangers hit on you when you're walking down the street? Yes. That was one reason I never wanted to live in East Boston, even though the rents are cheap there. (The other reason I didn't want to live there was because they don't have enough supermarkets in that part of the city.) Have I been hit on by random New Yorkers when I visited New York and was wandering around by myself? Yes. New Yorkers do that. New Yorkers also try to sell you stuff on the street regardless of your gender and occasionally try to strike up conversations about random things like some movie they liked.

That said, having 100 people talk to you in 10 hours -- in a crowded urban environment where you are constantly passing people on the street, in a city where the locals are known for being loud and pushy -- isn't that shocking. If it happened in 1 hour, that'd be different.

Getting hit on on the street is a real annoyance that women have to deal with. It's not some imaginary thing that feminists invented, but it's also not such a severe problem that we all need to carry guns and live in fear 24/7.