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2019-2020 US Elections Megathread I- It Begins

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Candidate do you support?

Bernie
102
33%
Beto
3
1%
Biden
15
5%
Buttigieg
27
9%
Harris
4
1%
Warren
17
6%
Yang
24
8%
Trump
88
29%
Weld
3
1%
Other
25
8%
 
Total votes : 308

User avatar
Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10326
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:29 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Arlenton wrote:Me, ideally. But that won’t work.

Me and likeminded people, but that’s not enough either.

So me and likeminded people teaming up with others who broadly share some similar ideas. And that’s pretty much what’s going on.

Eh, true. But it's not all your whims and needs.

I get what I can get. A lot of what I like and been happening with Trump. Including motivation for likeminded friends.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Arlenton wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Eh, true. But it's not all your whims and needs.

I get what I can get. A lot of what I like and been happening with Trump. Including motivation for likeminded friends.

I have my likeninded friends. I dont like this. It goes on and on.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I adamantly disagree.

I mean, there should be checks against the power of the majority, but rule by minority is worse.


Neither rule by the majority, nor rule by the minority, is inherently good or bad.
Last edited by Telconi on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10326
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I adamantly disagree.

I mean, there should be checks against the power of the majority, but rule by minority is worse.

Isnt that only if you’re in the majority.

User avatar
Shrillland
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22511
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Shrillland » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:35 pm

Arlenton wrote:
Kowani wrote:I mean, there should be checks against the power of the majority, but rule by minority is worse.

Isnt that only if you’re in the majority.


Whether I'm in it or not, it's not a good thing. A Democratic Republic should safeguard against both.
How America Came to This, by Kowani: Racialised Politics, Ideological Media Gaslighting, and What It All Means For The Future
Plebiscite Plaza 2024
Confused by the names I use for House districts? Here's a primer!
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:36 pm

Kowani wrote:
Arlenton wrote:Me, ideally. But that won’t work.

Me and likeminded people, but that’s not enough either.

So me and likeminded people teaming up with others who broadly share some similar ideas. And that’s pretty much what’s going on.

Northern Davincia wrote:In a perfect world, either me or no one. Otherwise, judges.


And here we see the wannabe dictators in their natural habitat...

Also, your definition of perfect is very subjective, ND.

I suspect most think that the world would be better if they had power.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:38 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:I mean, there should be checks against the power of the majority, but rule by minority is worse.


Neither rule by the majority, nor rule by the minority, is inherently good or bad.

Depends. Do you believe in right and wrong?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:39 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Neither rule by the majority, nor rule by the minority, is inherently good or bad.

Depends. Do you believe in right and wrong?


Certainly.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Neither rule by the majority, nor rule by the minority, is inherently good or bad.

Depends. Do you believe in right and wrong?

>implying it's that simple

Anyways, to get back on topic, I want Kasich to run again.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:42 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Depends. Do you believe in right and wrong?


Certainly.

Wonderful, that makes this easier. People's rights should be respected, no?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Certainly.

Wonderful, that makes this easier. People's rights should be respected, no?


Absolutely.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wonderful, that makes this easier. People's rights should be respected, no?


Absolutely.

So, when two rights conflict, what happens?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Certainly.

Wonderful, that makes this easier. People's rights should be respected, no?

You're not alone in that opinion.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:46 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wonderful, that makes this easier. People's rights should be respected, no?

You're not alone in that opinion.

Who says that the dictator will preserve the people at his own expense?
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:47 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Absolutely.

So, when two rights conflict, what happens?


The right which is more integral takes precedence.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:47 pm

The South Falls wrote:

Who says that the dictator will preserve the people at his own expense?

Depends on the dictator.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:49 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Who says that the dictator will preserve the people at his own expense?

Depends on the dictator.

Provide an example.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:51 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:So, when two rights conflict, what happens?


The right which is more integral takes precedence.

And who decides which is more integral?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:57 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The right which is more integral takes precedence.

And who decides which is more integral?


-Shrug- Therein lies the problem huh?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:58 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Depends on the dictator.

Provide an example.

Lee Kuan Yew is the best example, in my opinion. He could have easily made himself a corrupt despot but instead rooted out corruption in Singapore.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Provide an example.

Lee Kuan Yew is the best example, in my opinion. He could have easily made himself a corrupt despot but instead rooted out corruption in Singapore.


Salazar in Portugal was pretty well regarded.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:01 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Provide an example.

Lee Kuan Yew is the best example, in my opinion. He could have easily made himself a corrupt despot but instead rooted out corruption in Singapore.

That's true. He did have some parliamentary influence.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44958
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:02 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Depends on the dictator.

Provide an example.

Thomas Sankara?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12008
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:03 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Lee Kuan Yew is the best example, in my opinion. He could have easily made himself a corrupt despot but instead rooted out corruption in Singapore.

That's true. He did have some parliamentary influence.

"He had some parliamentary influence" is a pretty tame way of saying a framed headshot of LKY still adorns the bedrooms of PAP parliamentarians, and made it virtually impossible for any other party in Singapore to gain a majority.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:07 pm

Kowani wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Provide an example.

Thomas Sankara?

Mein Gott.
Pasong Tirad wrote:
The South Falls wrote:That's true. He did have some parliamentary influence.

"He had some parliamentary influence" is a pretty tame way of saying a framed headshot of LKY still adorns the bedrooms of PAP parliamentarians, and made it virtually impossible for any other party in Singapore to gain a majority.

I should get one in my room also.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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