Is Compulsory Military Service Fascism?

[Juansonia]

moral christian

If you're using those words to describe a nation, choose one.

Secularism, with no preference for religion or irreligion, is the only acceptable way to operate a government.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Is there anything more important than my health ? I answer: no !

Please come and live in a country like Turkey , then let's talk. I think you keep the nationalist nonsense to yourself. I don't want to hate being Turkish, but it's so hard ! Being Turkish is very difficult.

I never said that it was a bad thing for you to not want the baggage of Turkish nationality.
I never said that I was a nationalist, or that I supported conscription. If anything, the opposite is true for both, at least on an idealist level.

I was born into a Christian household in America, and I am ethnically of Polish and Jewish descent.
However, I don't pay much attention to race and ethnicity, I realised that Christianity is not supported by evidence, and I came to realise that NATO is a terrorist organisation (the Russian Federation is a greater/worse evil, in case a NAFO moron or NCDposter reads this).

Still, I don't do anything to actualise my political ideals, since all I care about is being able to enjoy the little things: gaming, walking, cycling, talking to friends and family, touching grass, wearing a skirt in public(I'm a guy, BTW), reading Wikipedia's article about the FN-49 Rifle, watching Better Call Saul, and arguing with strangers on this website. It's not like I want to live, I merely enjoy some of the shit that I experience when I'm alive. Pathetically insignificant things are enough to keep me going.

Despite all of the shit that's wrong with me, I still know the difference between "fascism" and "conscription", and I'm willing to acknowledge that compulsory military training may be necessary(in some cases) to protect people from an invading force.

I advise you not to mess with me. Unfortunately, I was depressed because of the conscription fascism that my country imposed on me. Those who accuse me of Turkish nationalism and those who accuse me of being Turkophobic, please keep their opinions to themselves. do not disturb me.

Alright Man other than the 'Toxic masculinity' part I understand.
I'm not advocating for conscription, I'm Just Saying its not fascism.

I honestly do not like turkey as a country and would rather it be weak.

Turkey will rise to the level of contemporary civilizations with conscience and true justice awareness. You will see a Turkey that turns its face to Europe.

[Bahrimontagn]

I never said that it was a bad thing for you to not want the baggage of Turkish nationality.
I never said that I was a nationalist, or that I supported conscription. If anything, the opposite is true for both, at least on an idealist level.

I was born into a Christian household in America, and I am ethnically of Polish and Jewish descent.
However, I don't pay much attention to race and ethnicity, I realised that Christianity is not supported by evidence, and I came to realise that NATO is a terrorist organisation (the Russian Federation is a greater/worse evil, in case a NAFO moron or NCDposter reads this).

Still, I don't do anything to actualise my political ideals, since all I care about is being able to enjoy the little things: gaming, walking, cycling, talking to friends and family, touching grass, wearing a skirt in public(I'm a guy, BTW), reading Wikipedia's article about the FN-49 Rifle, watching Better Call Saul, and arguing with strangers on this website. It's not like I want to live, I merely enjoy some of the shit that I experience when I'm alive. Pathetically insignificant things are enough to keep me going.

Despite all of the shit that's wrong with me, I still know the difference between "fascism" and "conscription", and I'm willing to acknowledge that compulsory military training may be necessary(in some cases) to protect people from an invading force.

I advise you not to mess with me. Unfortunately, I was depressed because of the conscription fascism that my country imposed on me. Those who accuse me of Turkish nationalism and those who accuse me of being Turkophobic, please keep their opinions to themselves. do not disturb me.

I honestly do not like turkey as a country and would rather it be weak.

Turkey will rise to the level of contemporary civilizations with conscience and true justice awareness. You will see a Turkey that turns its face to Europe.

Didn't you try 'turning to europe' and they spat in your face. Imitation of the Europeans shows how self loathing you must be about your own culture.

[Swimington]

moral christian

If you're using those words to describe a nation, choose one.

Secularism, with no preference for religion or irreligion, is the only acceptable way to operate a government.

I'm pretty sure western society got to where it is because of Christianity and now its going downhill because of the lack of it.

[Huaren Gongsi state]

Want to get rid of your anger? You can't cope to your responsibility? call it fascist! "'Damn I felt like a goddamn political teenager, I like to call everything I don't like, fascist!" says one reviewer after taking our advice.

In all seriousness, democratic countries can have compulsory military service and dictatorships can choose not to have compulsory military service. is it just because you don't like to do it that it is fascist? As you know from one of my posts (the time I doxxed myself), I will have national service very soon and even if I'm not the most patriotic of my country, I'm still doing a favor instead of complaining my ass off and call it fascist.

want to know a fascist ideal I believe with ToTAl seRIOuSnEss? I believe that turks should not be able to mass-migrate all the way to europe just to ruin their shit, I believe that my imaginary distant cousin in xinjiang is doing a great favor to the rest of europe for deterring the turkish-blooded stain and cleaning the stain that threatens global peace and internet-forum peace. My distant cousin is a great example to follow and he joined the army voluntarily (China doesn't have conscription) as well, with all his heart.

for Fuck's sake I implore you not to talk about how european turkiye is, Romani people have assimilated to european culture and therefore have all the legitimacy of being european much more than how legitimate turkiye is to the european identity.

[Juansonia]

If you're using those words to describe a nation, choose one.

Secularism, with no preference for religion or irreligion, is the only acceptable way to operate a government.

I'm pretty sure western society got to where it is because of Christianity and now its going downhill because of the lack of it.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong, and that Christian Theocrats are the primary force behind the collapse of America.

Also, I'd posit that "Western Society" was never a real thing. Instead, it was defined by what it wasn't - first the African colonies and Asian governments, then the Warsaw Pact and former members thereof.

[Necroghastia]

If you're using those words to describe a nation, choose one.

Secularism, with no preference for religion or irreligion, is the only acceptable way to operate a government.

I'm pretty sure western society got to where it is because of Christianity and now its going downhill because of the lack of it.

Turtle Island was doing well enough before, thank you very much.

But this is a topic for a different thread.

[Swimington]

I'm pretty sure western society got to where it is because of Christianity and now its going downhill because of the lack of it.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong, and that Christian Theocrats are the primary force behind the collapse of America.

Also, I'd posit that "Western Society" was never a real thing. Instead, it was defined by what it wasn't - first the African colonies and Asian governments, then the Warsaw Pact and former members thereof.

I'm pretty sure western society got to where it is because of Christianity and now its going downhill because of the lack of it.

Turtle Island was doing well enough before, thank you very much.

But this is a topic for a different thread.

WTF are you both talking about

[Fahran]

Didn't you try 'turning to europe' and they spat in your face. Imitation of the Europeans shows how self loathing you must be about your own culture.

Given the Ottomans were European-looking even from an early period, it's not really unusual that Turkey, arguably their successor, as a polity would tend to be European-looking and have a significant portion of its population that is European-looking. A decent portion of Turkey's population also literally lives in Europe, specifically where the old capital is located.

Also, some pretty toxic opinions about Turkey here.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I never said that it was a bad thing for you to not want the baggage of Turkish nationality.
I never said that I was a nationalist, or that I supported conscription. If anything, the opposite is true for both, at least on an idealist level.

I was born into a Christian household in America, and I am ethnically of Polish and Jewish descent.
However, I don't pay much attention to race and ethnicity, I realised that Christianity is not supported by evidence, and I came to realise that NATO is a terrorist organisation (the Russian Federation is a greater/worse evil, in case a NAFO moron or NCDposter reads this).

Still, I don't do anything to actualise my political ideals, since all I care about is being able to enjoy the little things: gaming, walking, cycling, talking to friends and family, touching grass, wearing a skirt in public(I'm a guy, BTW), reading Wikipedia's article about the FN-49 Rifle, watching Better Call Saul, and arguing with strangers on this website. It's not like I want to live, I merely enjoy some of the shit that I experience when I'm alive. Pathetically insignificant things are enough to keep me going.

Despite all of the shit that's wrong with me, I still know the difference between "fascism" and "conscription", and I'm willing to acknowledge that compulsory military training may be necessary(in some cases) to protect people from an invading force.

I advise you not to mess with me. Unfortunately, I was depressed because of the conscription fascism that my country imposed on me. Those who accuse me of Turkish nationalism and those who accuse me of being Turkophobic, please keep their opinions to themselves. do not disturb me.

I honestly do not like turkey as a country and would rather it be weak.

Turkey will rise to the level of contemporary civilizations with conscience and true justice awareness. You will see a Turkey that turns its face to Europe.

You can call it (and everything else apparently that you laughably don't agree with) fascist all you want, doesn't magically make it so. Also, people are allowed to voice legitimate criticisms of your opinions regardless if it pleases the crown or not. Don't like it? Too bad.

[Neu-Westfalen]

Obviously not. the U.S had compulsory military service in the past (aka draft) not to mention that if you take a typical democratic country, and sadly, it gets attacked by a more capable nation, draft would be a good idea. Draft does not mean fascism, as the USA was not ruled by Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong during drafts.

Compulsory military service may be associated with fascism, but it is not fascism or even authoritarianism.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Didn't you try 'turning to europe' and they spat in your face. Imitation of the Europeans shows how self loathing you must be about your own culture.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I too come from a traditionally non-western nation. We have our own unique national culture as well as customs and traditions inherited from our forefathers.

And if I could set fire on all of it to replace it with a deracinated, modernised culture appropriate for a globalised and secular world, I would.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I advise you not to mess with me. Unfortunately, I was depressed because of the conscription fascism that my country imposed on me. Those who accuse me of Turkish nationalism and those who accuse me of being Turkophobic, please keep their opinions to themselves. do not disturb me.
Turkey will rise to the level of contemporary civilizations with conscience and true justice awareness. You will see a Turkey that turns its face to Europe.

Didn't you try 'turning to europe' and they spat in your face. Imitation of the Europeans shows how self loathing you must be about your own culture.

- have shit culture
- look at rich people with shit culture
- decide to adopt rich people's shit culture
- be rich with shit culture, everyone else is still poor
- ah, westernization.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Didn't you try 'turning to europe' and they spat in your face. Imitation of the Europeans shows how self loathing you must be about your own culture.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I too come from a traditionally non-western nation. We have our own unique national culture as well as customs and traditions inherited from our forefathers.

And if I could set fire on all of it to replace it with a deracinated, modernised culture appropriate for a globalised and secular world, I would.

What is "culture" in this example? What defines "modernized"? Your ideal culture seems less like an actual one with history, faiths, customs and beliefs and just your own beliefs you wish to project onto everyone else.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

[...] and just your own beliefs you wish to project onto everyone else.

What is culture, if not that?

In fact, I will explicitly define it that way. Culture is a set of behavioural constraints, enforced unofficially by the force of expectation, on the manner by which common human activities are performed.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

[...] and just your own beliefs you wish to project onto everyone else.

What is culture, if not that?

In fact, I will explicitly define it that way. Culture is a set of behavioural constraints, enforced unofficially by the force of expectation, on the manner by which common human activities are performed.

Culture is not "a set of beliefs". That is called a custom, or an ideology. Culture is history- it is the clothes that you wear, the God(s) that you pray to, the songs that you sing- the stories that you and many, many others do. Again, characterizing culture as just being "peer pressure" is egoistic dumbfuckism and it gets you nowhere. Again, your ideal culture is little nothing more than an extension of your ideology. Is "Nazism" a culture? No. It's an ideology. Is "Communism" a culture? Also no.

I would love for you to enlighten me as to what your culture has beyond just being secular and globalist.

[Relikai]

I never said that it was a bad thing for you to not want the baggage of Turkish nationality.
I never said that I was a nationalist, or that I supported conscription. If anything, the opposite is true for both, at least on an idealist level.

I was born into a Christian household in America, and I am ethnically of Polish and Jewish descent.
However, I don't pay much attention to race and ethnicity, I realised that Christianity is not supported by evidence, and I came to realise that NATO is a terrorist organisation (the Russian Federation is a greater/worse evil, in case a NAFO moron or NCDposter reads this).

Still, I don't do anything to actualise my political ideals, since all I care about is being able to enjoy the little things: gaming, walking, cycling, talking to friends and family, touching grass, wearing a skirt in public(I'm a guy, BTW), reading Wikipedia's article about the FN-49 Rifle, watching Better Call Saul, and arguing with strangers on this website. It's not like I want to live, I merely enjoy some of the shit that I experience when I'm alive. Pathetically insignificant things are enough to keep me going.

Despite all of the shit that's wrong with me, I still know the difference between "fascism" and "conscription", and I'm willing to acknowledge that compulsory military training may be necessary(in some cases) to protect people from an invading force.

I advise you not to mess with me. Unfortunately, I was depressed because of the conscription fascism that my country imposed on me. Those who accuse me of Turkish nationalism and those who accuse me of being Turkophobic, please keep their opinions to themselves. do not disturb me.

I honestly do not like turkey as a country and would rather it be weak.

Turkey will rise to the level of contemporary civilizations with conscience and true justice awareness. You will see a Turkey that turns its face to Europe.

If you are depressed get professional medical help. Don't come onto NS where it's more edgy teenagers or people angry with their lives spending time in a pro-Western echochamber that agrees to their own views.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

What is culture, if not that?

In fact, I will explicitly define it that way. Culture is a set of behavioural constraints, enforced unofficially by the force of expectation, on the manner by which common human activities are performed.

Culture is not "a set of beliefs". That is called a custom, or an ideology. Culture is history- it is the clothes that you wear, the God(s) that you pray to, the songs that you sing- the stories that you and many, many others do. Again, characterizing culture as just being "peer pressure" is egoistic dumbfuckism and it gets you nowhere. Again, your ideal culture is little nothing more than an extension of your ideology. Is "Nazism" a culture? No. It's an ideology. Is "Communism" a culture? Also no.

I would love for you to enlighten me as to what your culture has beyond just being secular and globalist.

You are very right, but your statements are not valid for Turkey . maybe that's why Turkey is failing in the world arena. Women's right to abortion in Turkey came with a military coup. with top-down democracy. but you have to understand us too, modern democracy is a cultural expression, not an ideological concept. Turks have to blend their culture with European democracy, no one should accuse me of being a social fascist, but this is the truth. Rome collapsed Ottoman Empire collapsed. For example, society has no right to be homophobic. LGBT marriages should be forced into the constitution even if the majority of the society does not want it.

[Oshiri Tantei]

Yeah, remember when we were talking about Finland and not Spain? You don't think there are some major variables when assessing whether conscription is necessary or useful, you think that it is either useful and beneficial in every circumstance or it is in none? Why?

"What must be good for the Spanish must also be good for the Finns for some reason and no there must not be any variations, this is how logic works and I'm sticking with it."

The argument that Finland can't rely on their allies remaining so is true of every country. So if that is justification to conscript the whole citizenry, why does not every country do so? You might consider actually making an argument instead of just sputtering that you think I'm stupid.

So, I need this certain medicine to have the right amount of a certain hormone in my system, because a certain gland of mine does not produce enough of it on its own. But according to Ifreann here that is not actually a justification to take my medicine because not everyone is taking the same medicine. Yeah, your arguments really are dumb.

[Portzania]

And if I could set fire on all of it to replace it with a deracinated, modernised culture appropriate for a globalised and secular world, I would.

How edgy.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

What is culture, if not that?

In fact, I will explicitly define it that way. Culture is a set of behavioural constraints, enforced unofficially by the force of expectation, on the manner by which common human activities are performed.

Culture is not "a set of beliefs". That is called a custom, or an ideology. Culture is history- it is the clothes that you wear, the God(s) that you pray to, the songs that you sing- the stories that you and many, many others do.

I'll bite. How is this different from the definition that I've offered?

Let's take your first item as an example - clothing.

Workplaces have loosened up recently, but until quite recently if you worked a desk job in an office in this country, most of your co-workers would be dressed in a cotton or linen shirt, in a flat, low-saturation colour. Decorations would be muted; either none at all or a repetitive geometric pattern. Depending on the weather there might also be a blazer involved, usually darkly coloured.

Why? Is there something about the inherent physical properties of a woollen sweater that makes an office worker less productive than wearing a blazer would? Or is it - as I believe - nothing more than browbeating and people's unwillingness to stand out too much?

"Culture" is nothing more than a series of arbitrary social choices. People do it because they feel like it's the "normal" thing to do and it feels like the "normal" thing to do because people do it. You ridicule the idea that culture is nothing more than peer pressure, but I will make that argument. Culture is nothing more than peer pressure. It is, to repeat myself, a set of behavioural constraints, enforced by the force of expectations.

I mention deracination and modernisation, and since you asked me to clarify I will. By deracination I mean the detachment of culture from inherited customs and traditions, the detachment of a people away from its history. It is the rejection (ideally complete rejection) of "this is how things were (or are being) done" as a valid piece of evidence in favour of "this is how things should be done". By modernisation I basically mean the industrial-era liberal-capitalist canon, whose gospel preaches that thou shalt not interfere in thine neighbours' lifestyle choices except as is necessary to protect others' ability to make those same choices. It is a willingness to examine behaviours rationally from the perspective of its impact on other people rather than on arbitrary codes of behaviour; a culture that browbeats people into not browbeating others on certain personal matters.

In a deracinated and modernised culture, a person can look around and see how other people do common human activities (like dress themselves, mourn for the dead, court romantic partners, etc), decide that they'd rather do it some other way instead, and be able to feel comfortable doing so.

[Grand Sicily]

I don't think it's fascism or Authoritarian, but I understand people might not want to serve and that's their own right to deny joining the army.In my home country you are obligated to show up at any military site once you turn 18 years(if you are men if not you don't need to),if you don't not show up, they have the right to deny public services and even prohibit leaving country ,till you show up, but most of us won't be active members of the army if we tell them we do not want to.
Those of us who wish to not serve the army joins the reserve force and will only be summoned if the country is threatened or if the main force lacks members.

It is 100% authoritarian, the government is actively forcing its citizens to do it, that's literally a textbook definition of authoritarianism.

[Eshen]

Having to pay for conscription sucks and is not fair.

I don't think its Fascism though. Some nations need it for general security like for example South Korea.
Or some nations use drafts/conscriptions for other uses like just general public service.

[Juansonia]

I don't think it's fascism or Authoritarian, but I understand people might not want to serve and that's their own right to deny joining the army.In my home country you are obligated to show up at any military site once you turn 18 years(if you are men if not you don't need to),if you don't not show up, they have the right to deny public services and even prohibit leaving country ,till you show up, but most of us won't be active members of the army if we tell them we do not want to.
Those of us who wish to not serve the army joins the reserve force and will only be summoned if the country is threatened or if the main force lacks members.

It is 100% authoritarian, the government is actively forcing its citizens to do it, that's literally a textbook definition of authoritarianism.

Are taxes authoritariansim?

[Rary]

I don't think it's fascism or Authoritarian, but I understand people might not want to serve and that's their own right to deny joining the army.In my home country you are obligated to show up at any military site once you turn 18 years(if you are men if not you don't need to),if you don't not show up, they have the right to deny public services and even prohibit leaving country ,till you show up, but most of us won't be active members of the army if we tell them we do not want to.
Those of us who wish to not serve the army joins the reserve force and will only be summoned if the country is threatened or if the main force lacks members.

It is 100% authoritarian, the government is actively forcing its citizens to do it, that's literally a textbook definition of authoritarianism.

The government forces you to do many things. Are they all fascist now?