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Why you should eat Biblical apple

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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do you eat biblical apple

yes, come to know yourself through the knowledge of good and evil
76
52%
no - stay in paradise as a dumb brute
28
19%
no because old middle eastern god say no
43
29%
 
Total votes : 147

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Ethel mermania
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Posts: 113805
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:42 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Put the tree of knowledge somewhere else, you know where adam couldn't get to it, in ohio perhaps. The whole story reeks of bad planning. I am generally on the side of people are responsible for their own actions, but this whole thing does look like a set up to me.

Genesis as a whole is pretty much 'appropriated' from Sumerian mythology and edited in order to follow a monotheistic narrative, so it was pretty much a matter of working with what was available.

That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

I always thought it was babaloyian as according to the book its where abe was from

But that still doesnt not mean the situation wasnt a setup.
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Nevertopia
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nevertopia » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:46 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Genesis as a whole is pretty much 'appropriated' from Sumerian mythology and edited in order to follow a monotheistic narrative, so it was pretty much a matter of working with what was available.

That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

I always thought it was babaloyian as according to the book its where abe was from

But that still doesnt not mean the situation wasnt a setup.


> That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

Image
Last edited by Nevertopia on Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hurdergaryp
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Founded: Jul 10, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hurdergaryp » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:30 pm

Nevertopia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

I always thought it was babaloyian as according to the book its where abe was from

But that still doesnt not mean the situation wasnt a setup.


> That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

Image

Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.


“Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.”
Mao Zedong

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West Leas Oros 2
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Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:34 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
> That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

Image

Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.

Clearly you've never played Stellaris. Eventually, you get so bored you WANT to enlighten the primitives.
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
> That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

Image

Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.

My ambition in life is to have "ancient alien theorist", on my business card.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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MC United
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Posts: 244
Founded: Jan 05, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby MC United » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:18 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:There's one, rather horrid, Christian dogma which states that nothing happens without God willing it. Adam and Eve never stood a chance.

So, if God is all-powerful and "has a plan" and stuff doesn't happen unless God wills it, doesn't that make it God's fault if I sin? big thimk.


So, your preferred alternative would to be for God to deny humans free will. That way, humans would only choose what God wants them to choose. They'd be good little puppets, but hey, at least no possibility for evil.

But in Christian belief (deny it if you wish), God did give humans free will. And one consequence of that is that humans are free to choose evil over good. They are then responsible for the consequences of their choices.

Knowing that humans may choose evil is not the same as willing humans to choose evil.
"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." -- Michel de Montaigne

"A woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke." -- Kipling

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." -- Ecclesiastes 10:2.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:22 pm

MC United wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:So, if God is all-powerful and "has a plan" and stuff doesn't happen unless God wills it, doesn't that make it God's fault if I sin? big thimk.


So, your preferred alternative would to be for God to deny humans free will. That way, humans would only choose what God wants them to choose. They'd be good little puppets, but hey, at least no possibility for evil.

But in Christian belief (deny it if you wish), God did give humans free will. And one consequence of that is that humans are free to choose evil over good. They are then responsible for the consequences of their choices.

Knowing that humans may choose evil is not the same as willing humans to choose evil.

How the hell can humans have free will if God has everything planned in advance and is omnipotent? Under that logic, only the illusion of free will is possible, like in a Telltale Games game, where every choice is meaningless because the game follows its predetermined story regardless.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
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La xinga
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Posts: 3886
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby La xinga » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
MC United wrote:
So, your preferred alternative would to be for God to deny humans free will. That way, humans would only choose what God wants them to choose. They'd be good little puppets, but hey, at least no possibility for evil.

But in Christian belief (deny it if you wish), God did give humans free will. And one consequence of that is that humans are free to choose evil over good. They are then responsible for the consequences of their choices.

Knowing that humans may choose evil is not the same as willing humans to choose evil.

How the hell can humans have free will if God has everything planned in advance and is omnipotent? Under that logic, only the illusion of free will is possible, like in a Telltale Games game, where every choice is meaningless because the game follows its predetermined story regardless.
He has a plan, you can interfere with it, but God knows you will and will "find" another way, since he is almighty.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for him to allow your eyes to see!
Average religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5781 years old. Deal with it.
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MC United
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Posts: 244
Founded: Jan 05, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby MC United » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.

My ambition in life is to have "ancient alien theorist", on my business card.


"Is it possible that Ethel mermania is actually in communication with aliens?" -- Giorgio Tsoukalos
"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." -- Michel de Montaigne

"A woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke." -- Kipling

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." -- Ecclesiastes 10:2.

User avatar
MC United
Envoy
 
Posts: 244
Founded: Jan 05, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby MC United » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
MC United wrote:
So, your preferred alternative would to be for God to deny humans free will. That way, humans would only choose what God wants them to choose. They'd be good little puppets, but hey, at least no possibility for evil.

But in Christian belief (deny it if you wish), God did give humans free will. And one consequence of that is that humans are free to choose evil over good. They are then responsible for the consequences of their choices.

Knowing that humans may choose evil is not the same as willing humans to choose evil.

How the hell can humans have free will if God has everything planned in advance and is omnipotent? Under that logic, only the illusion of free will is possible, like in a Telltale Games game, where every choice is meaningless because the game follows its predetermined story regardless.


God does not have "everything planned in advance". That's the whole point of free will.
"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." -- Michel de Montaigne

"A woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke." -- Kipling

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." -- Ecclesiastes 10:2.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:31 pm

La xinga wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:How the hell can humans have free will if God has everything planned in advance and is omnipotent? Under that logic, only the illusion of free will is possible, like in a Telltale Games game, where every choice is meaningless because the game follows its predetermined story regardless.
He has a plan, you can interfere with it, but God knows you will and will "find" another way, since he is almighty.

So then my choices don't matter, since God will just nullify it and put it back on track. I can't have free will if I can't derail God's plan.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
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West Leas Oros 2
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:32 pm

MC United wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:How the hell can humans have free will if God has everything planned in advance and is omnipotent? Under that logic, only the illusion of free will is possible, like in a Telltale Games game, where every choice is meaningless because the game follows its predetermined story regardless.


God does not have "everything planned in advance". That's the whole point of free will.

Says who? As far as I hear, Christians tell me otherwise.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

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La xinga
Senator
 
Posts: 3886
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby La xinga » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:32 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
La xinga wrote:He has a plan, you can interfere with it, but God knows you will and will "find" another way, since he is almighty.

So then my choices don't matter, since God will just nullify it and put it back on track. I can't have free will if I can't derail God's plan.
You can choose whatever you like to your human powers!
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for him to allow your eyes to see!
Average religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5781 years old. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
#KAG2020

If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Creationist, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

Nation in TEP. Don't endorse me if I am over 400 endos. Still a long way to go!

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 113805
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:42 pm

MC United wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:My ambition in life is to have "ancient alien theorist", on my business card.


"Is it possible that Ethel mermania is actually in communication with aliens?" -- Giorgio Tsoukalos

:hug:
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Grimmsland
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Posts: 295
Founded: Dec 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Grimmsland » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:10 pm

La xinga wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:It was given food when it was saved. It keeps returning because of that. No gratitude needed.

I tihnk being saved is more important than getting given food.


Being fed is more important to the deer, IMO.

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Kubra
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Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:11 pm

I mean it probably tastes pretty good, like a juicier gala.
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Neutraligon
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Posts: 36620
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:21 pm

La xinga wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:It was given food when it was saved. It keeps returning because of that. No gratitude needed.

I tihnk being saved is more important than getting given food.

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Grimmsland
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Founded: Dec 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Grimmsland » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 pm

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Nevertopia wrote:
> That's not what I learned on ancient aliens.

Image

Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.


Agree.. our ancestors were capable and had knowledge that we don't and humanity has progressively gotten dumber over the course of thousands of years. I believe an Atlantis existed!

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Region of Dwipantara
Diplomat
 
Posts: 628
Founded: Dec 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Region of Dwipantara » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:31 pm

Grimmsland wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.


Agree.. our ancestors were capable and had knowledge that we don't and humanity has progressively gotten dumber over the course of thousands of years. I believe an Atlantis existed!

There is a book in my house by "Professor Dos Santos" who claimed that Atlantis is located here in my country, and their capital is located on top of Mt. Krakatoa. It is said that when the mountain exploded real bad 11.000 years ago, the civilization disappears without a trace – vey neat indeed. I remembered fully believeing in that theory.
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Liberty3
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Posts: 2
Founded: Jun 29, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Liberty3 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm

It is better not to eat the apple.
1. Without the apple we are allowed to know creation and all the beautiful things in it without fear, pain, or strife.
2. Knowing your place in creation and ruling over creation is better than being tortured in creation and developing an ego that puts us against others.
3. If you eat the apple, you will surely die :ugeek:

It is like saying that heroin is good because of we don't take heroin we can never know the joys of it. The ups and downs of the addiction. What hokem pokem! The consequences are evident, and you hate to see em, and you get fair warning and then some. Don't trade temporary satisfaction and excitement for long-term consequences that outweigh them in suffering.

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MC United
Envoy
 
Posts: 244
Founded: Jan 05, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby MC United » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:39 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
MC United wrote:
God does not have "everything planned in advance". That's the whole point of free will.

Says who? As far as I hear, Christians tell me otherwise.


Clearly you haven't heard from enough Christians.

The problem of free will has been the subject of inquiry for centuries. I don't claim to be theologian or philosopher enough to go into much detail on the issue, but my denomination (Catholicism) clearly sides with free will. As discussed at length here:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/free-will
"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." -- Michel de Montaigne

"A woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke." -- Kipling

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." -- Ecclesiastes 10:2.

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Czechostan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1182
Founded: Apr 23, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechostan » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:53 pm

MC United wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Says who? As far as I hear, Christians tell me otherwise.


Clearly you haven't heard from enough Christians.

The problem of free will has been the subject of inquiry for centuries. I don't claim to be theologian or philosopher enough to go into much detail on the issue, but my denomination (Catholicism) clearly sides with free will. As discussed at length here:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/free-will

While Catholics believe in free will, it's of note that other denominations, like Calvinism, believe in predestination and determinism. And other Christians are compatibilists and believe free will and determinism can co-exist.
Last edited by Czechostan on Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fiveholm
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Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Fiveholm » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm

We went from apples to ancient aliens. What even is this thread?
Put this in your signature if you SUPPORT the legalization of cannabis.

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Fiveholm
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Jun 07, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Fiveholm » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:09 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
MC United wrote:
God does not have "everything planned in advance". That's the whole point of free will.

Says who? As far as I hear, Christians tell me otherwise.


most christians dont actually read the book and rely soley on religious figures to tell them what the bible means.
Put this in your signature if you SUPPORT the legalization of cannabis.

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Hurdergaryp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38910
Founded: Jul 10, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hurdergaryp » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:47 am

Grimmsland wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Ancient Aliens: the idea that ancient human civilizations must have been guided by advanced extraterrestials, because clearly people are too goddamn stupid to achieve things on their own, while simultaneously being interesting enough for the previously mentioned advanced extraterrestials to meddle with.

Agree.. our ancestors were capable and had knowledge that we don't and humanity has progressively gotten dumber over the course of thousands of years. I believe an Atlantis existed!

Atlantis, eh? The origin of that myth was probably Crete, which had a thriving civilization which ended rather abruptly when part of the island literally exploded. Vulcans are not your friend.


“Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.”
Mao Zedong

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