Corporal Punishment -A Parental Right or Wrong?

[Disgraces]

Millenials aren't fucked up. The cycle of the old generation complaining about the new one goes on and on and on. And how exactly does not hitting children remove their agency?

I am a millennial. I'm not an older generation.

I'm a zoomer with half-boomer mentality. Can agree that many millennials are fucked up.

[Appathian]

As someone who was regularly spanked/pinched/slapped in face when I was younger, I can tell you physically scolding doesn't work. I didn't do anything bad maybe I was being "rude" or "talking back" it just created resentment and doesn't make the child/teen do anything different. Same with making your kid/teen say sorry, they're not sorry, they're just mad. You making them say sorry won't make them sorry.

[Kergstan]

Coming from a society in which it's widely practiced and accepted i can say it has consequences, albanians tend to be hot-heads and generally violent also because of that.

The incapacity to express personal problems because of the fear of how your parents could reacts make you keep things for yourself until it boils out and shit happens.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

[State of Turelisa]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

[Kowani]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

Actually, it doesn’t do that either.

[Estanglia]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

Firstly, if you have to control your children by making them fear you or the physical harm you can cause them, I wouldn't call that good parenting at all.

Secondly, fear of the rod teaches them to avoid the rod. For some, that might mean "be good", for others that might mean "hide the bad better".

[Katganistan]

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

Actually, it doesn’t do that either.

Just in front of mom and dad. They'll do it behind their backs if they're afraid of being punished, that's all.

[Comfed]

All of the arguments about hardening the relationship between parent and child miss one critcal thing: hitting people is wrong.

[Awesomeland012345]

If your kid is irreparable and beyond saving without hitting, then you might've done something just a little wrong, right?

Parents aren't the only influences in children's lives. In fact, they're in school for most of the day. It's not necessarily the parent that's done something wrong, it could be probably is other influences. Because, think about it. What percentage of kids are 100% under their parent's influences? Even if they're homeschooled, there's the internet. And if the kid is homeschooled, never leaves the house, and isn't allowed to use the internet, then...

[Geneviev]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

Fear isn't something that children should experience. If corporal punishment is used, parents need to be very careful that the children only learn that their behavior is wrong, not to fear their parents or anything else.

[Kowani]

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

Fear isn't something that children should experience. If corporal punishment is used, parents need to be very careful that the children only learn that their behavior is wrong, not to fear their parents or anything else.

I literally just posted, last page about how corporal punishment doesn’t teach kids that behavior is wrong.

[Geneviev]

Fear isn't something that children should experience. If corporal punishment is used, parents need to be very careful that the children only learn that their behavior is wrong, not to fear their parents or anything else.

I literally just posted, last page about how corporal punishment doesn’t teach kids that behavior is wrong.

It depends on how the parents use it. They usually aren't careful enough.

[Kowani]

I literally just posted, last page about how corporal punishment doesn’t teach kids that behavior is wrong.

It depends on how the parents use it. They usually aren't careful enough.

…No, it doesn’t. It’s an inherent thing about corporal punishment. There’s no more way to “do it right” then there is a right way to walk on Jupiter.

[Geneviev]

It depends on how the parents use it. They usually aren't careful enough.

…No, it doesn’t. It’s an inherent thing about corporal punishment. There’s no more way to “do it right” then there is a right way to walk on Jupiter.

From your source: “The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

[Kowani]

…No, it doesn’t. It’s an inherent thing about corporal punishment. There’s no more way to “do it right” then there is a right way to walk on Jupiter.

From your source: “The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

Did you read the context of that quote? Because it’s pretty clear that that’s the minority view-being the member of the task force who disagreed with their findings.

[Geneviev]

From your source: “The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

Did you read the context of that quote? Because it’s pretty clear that that’s the minority view-being the member of the task force who disagreed with their findings.

He did have some valid concerns about the studies, though. It wasn't only disagreement based on ideology.

[Page]

All of the arguments about hardening the relationship between parent and child miss one critcal thing: hitting people is wrong.

I can't believe it's so hard to convince people who generally accept that violence is wrong that violence against a defenseless child is not an exception.

[Page]

Fear isn't something that children should experience. If corporal punishment is used, parents need to be very careful that the children only learn that their behavior is wrong, not to fear their parents or anything else.

I literally just posted, last page about how corporal punishment doesn’t teach kids that behavior is wrong.

Trying to condition a child to not do certain things is no excuse to hit them but what is even worse is that so many people hit their kids at such a young age that their brains are literally incapable of making the connection between being hit and the action.

Last time I argued about this on the internet, it might have been here or maybe Reddit, I don't remember, someone admitted to hitting their 18 month old kid. And I told them that at that age the kid is incapable of comprehending why they're being hit and that they were inflicting pain and fear on their kid for nothing.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I literally just posted, last page about how corporal punishment doesn’t teach kids that behavior is wrong.

Trying to condition a child to not do certain things is no excuse to hit them but what is even worse is that so many people hit their kids at such a young age that their brains are literally incapable of making the connection between being hit and the action.

Last time I argued about this on the internet, it might have been here or maybe Reddit, I don't remember, someone admitted to hitting their 18 month old kid. And I told them that at that age the kid is incapable of comprehending why they're being hit and that they were inflicting pain and fear on their kid for nothing.

Yeah, a parent shouldn't increase an infant's pain and fear deliberately. But pain or fear don't influence an infant reliably: they stop doing the action which led to pain, yes, but it's on a scale of split seconds. They will learn "don't touch the stove" if they get burnt, doesn't mean they will learn "don't try to touch the stove" if they get smacked. Intention is a much more advanced concept than action: infants do various things without being aware of their own intention.

Fire, specifically: my parents were hikers and very familiar with open fires. They let me learn for myself that trying to touch a fire hurts, and I have no scars from that. In fact I have skills: I can pick up a burning log with my hands and throw it back in a fire. I am very confident around fires (though as an adult I have learned to be more careful with burning liquids and particularly burning plastic which sticks, I do have one small scar from that).

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Kids shouldn't have to grow up terrified of being abused. Positive reinforcement is proven to be a better method of parenting, and there are much better ways to punish them.

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

"Fear of the rod discourages bad behaviour" would make sense.

But what you're saying is that any behaviour which is not punished with pain and fear, is good behaviour.

I really can't agree with that. There are degrees of good and bad, there are different kinds of good and bad which a child must choose between. Maybe they all come down to how they will treat other people when they're adult (or maybe religion intrudes with other ideas of good and bad), but all the child's life there will be degrees of good and bad. Judgement that can never find the in-between nor choose the middle course, is amoral judgement.

[Purpelia]

But fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour.

"Fear of the rod discourages bad behaviour" would make sense.

But what you're saying is that any behaviour which is not punished with pain and fear, is good behaviour.

I really can't agree with that. There are degrees of good and bad, there are different kinds of good and bad which a child must choose between. Maybe they all come down to how they will treat other people when they're adult (or maybe religion intrudes with other ideas of good and bad), but all the child's life there will be degrees of good and bad. Judgement that can never find the in-between nor choose the middle course, is amoral judgement.

I believe he is using "good behavior" in the sense of "opposite of bad behavior" as opposed to referring to specific "good behaviors". As in, punishment makes people generally be on not-bad behavior.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

"Fear of the rod discourages bad behaviour" would make sense.

But what you're saying is that any behaviour which is not punished with pain and fear, is good behaviour.

I really can't agree with that. There are degrees of good and bad, there are different kinds of good and bad which a child must choose between. Maybe they all come down to how they will treat other people when they're adult (or maybe religion intrudes with other ideas of good and bad), but all the child's life there will be degrees of good and bad. Judgement that can never find the in-between nor choose the middle course, is amoral judgement.

I believe he is using "good behavior" in the sense of "opposite of bad behavior" as opposed to referring to specific "good behaviors". As in, punishment makes people generally be on not-bad behavior.

And that's still kind of rubbish. Don't you think parents should show degrees of approval and disapproval, so the kid knows that x behaviour, while wrong, is clearly less wrong they y behaviour? And of course on the positive side, that harmless pleasures are less good than an act which helps another?

The moral compass should have a few degrees between "punishably wrong" and "virtuous good deeds" don't you think?

[Purpelia]

And that's still kind of rubbish. Don't you think parents should show degrees of approval and disapproval, so the kid knows that x behaviour, while wrong, is clearly less wrong they y behaviour? And of course on the positive side, that harmless pleasures are less good than an act which helps another?

The moral compass should have a few degrees between "punishably wrong" and "virtuous good deeds" don't you think?

I do not see how what you say and what he said contradict one another. His is just a subset of yours.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

And that's still kind of rubbish. Don't you think parents should show degrees of approval and disapproval, so the kid knows that x behaviour, while wrong, is clearly less wrong they y behaviour? And of course on the positive side, that harmless pleasures are less good than an act which helps another?

The moral compass should have a few degrees between "punishably wrong" and "virtuous good deeds" don't you think?

I do not see how what you say and what he said contradict one another. His is just a subset of yours.

No, "fear of the rod reinforces good behaviour" is not a subset.

"Fear of the rod" also reinforces neutral behaviour, and indeed bad behaviour that the child can distinguish from the bad behaviour it is being punished for.

Unless the fear is extreme (because the pain of the rod is extreme) in which case it would discourage neutral behaviour like bicycle riding or ballet dancing. Surely you don't want that?