The Little Mermaid Controversy Continues

[Cekoviu]

You could probably find relatively dark-skinned people in Morocco, al-Andalus, Egypt, and certain metropolitan centers. That said, I don't think strict historical accuracy is always necessary when you're writing a script or story. You have to inquire what the general message and point of the script or story is. Are you contextualizing a founding myth to accommodate modern demographics and culture like Hamilton? Are you striving for strict historical or aesthetic accuracy? Are you making a killer action flick? Are you just picking funny actors who will make the audience laugh?[/i]

Dark skinned doesn't necessarily mean black although I'm sure some people in Muslim Spain were black. But that's the mediterranean. In northern Europe of that time, I don't know if anyone had even olive skin, let alone super dark skin

In northern Europe at that time, there also weren't humans with a fish tail instead of legs who could inexplicably breathe underwater, and there weren't octopus sea witches either.

[Ifreann]

You could probably find relatively dark-skinned people in Morocco, al-Andalus, Egypt, and certain metropolitan centers. That said, I don't think strict historical accuracy is always necessary when you're writing a script or story. You have to inquire what the general message and point of the script or story is. Are you contextualizing a founding myth to accommodate modern demographics and culture like Hamilton? Are you striving for strict historical or aesthetic accuracy? Are you making a killer action flick? Are you just picking funny actors who will make the audience laugh?[/i]

Dark skinned doesn't necessarily mean black although I'm sure some people in Muslim Spain were black. But that's the mediterranean. In northern Europe of that time, I don't know if anyone had even olive skin, let alone super dark skin

Of course they did. Africa and Europe aren't very far away from each other, Africans have been migrating into Europe for about as long as the human species has existed.

[Fahran]

Dark skinned doesn't necessarily mean black although I'm sure some people in Muslim Spain were black. But that's the mediterranean. In northern Europe of that time, I don't know if anyone had even olive skin, let alone super dark skin

Black people had some presence in the Islamic world. Several of Haroun al-Rashid's half-siblings were of partial Afro-Persian ancestry. The ruling classes in Morocco and al-Andalus at times would have been a heterogeneous population that included black people as well as people with lighter complexions. Nubians were black. If you're trying to depict historical accuracy in medieval England, yeah, there probably won't be that many black people, but that doesn't mean it's historically inaccurate for the entire medieval world. And, again, we're presuming that the goal is historical accuracy. That isn't always the case.

[Deacarsia]

If Hamilton were about “modern culture and demographics,” then the cast would be sixty to seventy percent white, and they would not specifically make everyone else black and King George III the only white character.

Again, it's a recontextualization intended to convey a message of ethnic, racial, and national diversity. The purpose isn't so much "screw the whites" as it is a reframing of the message "e pluribus unum" to embrace historically margianalized groups. With regard to my remarks about demographics and culture, we have a lot more racial and ethnic diversity than we did in the eighteenth century and we also consider non-white people citizens now.

Besides, picking an actor for any role includes all elements of themselves, including their appearance (such as race and sex).

And, in some cases, it includes elements of society. There's no "right" way to write a story or to pick actors. It all depends on the message and themes you want to convey in your story or performance. Sometimes, you don't even have to convey a coherent message or theme through your actors skin tones and ethnic backgrounds.

Disney: There are too many white people in all of these European-origin story. Let’s specifically look for black actors to play these parts, for no other reason than it makes me feel morally-superior, especially if anyone dares to complain.

Disney has an opportunity to contextualize the differences between the mermaid Ariel and her love interest Eric in terms of the racial divide in America and potentially create a more compelling narrative in the process, one that speaks to cultural experiences. I don't think it was really as simple as "screw the whites" though they may have wanted to give little black girls another heroine to look up to in this particular case. I think the only other one Disney has provided is Tiana, who, as a white-ish girl, I really loved. Can't beat that work ethic.

I

f you honestly think that Hollywood directors of any race are angry about casting non-white actors in traditionally white roles, and therefore try to do the reverse out of spite, then I want to know what sort upside-down world you think you live in.

It was a joke...

Finally, if it is fine to cast actors in roles traditionally of another race, at least so long as it is fictional, then I am sure that an all-white production of Othello would be just fine and dandy, never mind that Othello always has been black.

Of course, that's fine. It all depends on the story you want to tell and the themes you want to convey. I'm certain a few high school productions of Othello have depicted Othello as white simply due to lack of other options or because the white actor who auditioned was perfect for the role.

Firstly, I do not care about “recontextualizing differences.” The point is to tell the story, and people need to quit dragging racial politics into everything.

Secondly, America is more racially diverse than in the eighteenth century, which I why I said that if the point was to be representative then the cast should be roughly sixty to seventy percent white, instead of the eighty to ninety percent demographics prevalent in the past, or one hundred percent white like the actual historical figures; and if the message were not “screw whites,” then why is the villain King George III intentionally the only white character? Never mind also that a cast of one race is the very opposite of racial diversity, which is a questionable value either positively or negatively anyway.

Thirdly, you are right that a coherent theme does not need to be expressed through choice of actors, which is exactly why there is no problem casting actors to match the characters in appearance. The “elements of society” have nothing to do with the actors, what matters is accuracy of portrayal.

Finally, I think Othello always should be played by a black man, since Othello is black, previous depictions notwithstanding. The acting pool of high schools almost always limits the casting abilities and has nothing to do with major motion pictures.

[Deacarsia]

If Hamilton were about “modern culture and demographics,” then the cast would be sixty to seventy percent white, and they would not specifically make everyone else black and King George III the only white character.

Besides, picking an actor for any role includes all elements of themselves, including their appearance (such as race and sex).

Disney: There are too many white people in all of these European-origin story. Let’s specifically look for black actors to play these parts, for no other reason than it makes me feel morally-superior, especially if anyone dares to complain.

If you honestly think that Hollywood directors of any race are angry about casting non-white actors in traditionally white roles, and therefore try to do the reverse out of spite, then I want to know what sort upside-down world you think you live in.

Finally, if it is fine to cast actors in roles traditionally of another race, at least so long as it is fictional, then I am sure that an all-white production of Othello would be just fine and dandy, never mind that Othello always has been black.

So if I proposed putting the Ariel actress in whiteface, that would be all right to you?

Just because blackface was used to portray black characters in the past, does not mean that we should not cast real black actors to play roles today.

[Ifreann]

Again, it's a recontextualization intended to convey a message of ethnic, racial, and national diversity. The purpose isn't so much "screw the whites" as it is a reframing of the message "e pluribus unum" to embrace historically margianalized groups. With regard to my remarks about demographics and culture, we have a lot more racial and ethnic diversity than we did in the eighteenth century and we also consider non-white people citizens now.


And, in some cases, it includes elements of society. There's no "right" way to write a story or to pick actors. It all depends on the message and themes you want to convey in your story or performance. Sometimes, you don't even have to convey a coherent message or theme through your actors skin tones and ethnic backgrounds.


Disney has an opportunity to contextualize the differences between the mermaid Ariel and her love interest Eric in terms of the racial divide in America and potentially create a more compelling narrative in the process, one that speaks to cultural experiences. I don't think it was really as simple as "screw the whites" though they may have wanted to give little black girls another heroine to look up to in this particular case. I think the only other one Disney has provided is Tiana, who, as a white-ish girl, I really loved. Can't beat that work ethic.

I
It was a joke...


Of course, that's fine. It all depends on the story you want to tell and the themes you want to convey. I'm certain a few high school productions of Othello have depicted Othello as white simply due to lack of other options or because the white actor who auditioned was perfect for the role.

Firstly, I do not care about “recontextualizing differences.” The point is to tell the story, and people need to quit dragging racial politics into everything.

I know that Death of the Author is a thing, but I don't think that the author is so dead that you get to tell them the point of the stories they tell. You can read whatever meaning you want from Hamilton, but you can't stop Lin Manuel Miranda from including racial politics in his works.

[Espenia]

Are we really fretting about this? It's a movie about a mermaid, talking crabs and singing seagulls lol I like everyone else in the world, does not care, that a young women, who happens to be of African heritage is playing a mermaid...

It's a movie.

A fairytale.

Just get over it.

We're all grown here and not angry, little toddlers.

The new twist is that a white guy is playing as the boyfriend *gasp!*

I am not gonna argue about The Little Mermaid. It's really silly how everyone here and everywhere else, are getting their panties in a twist over a damn Disney movie. There are far more important things to fret about lol

And I along with a lot of other Disney/The Little Mermaid fans are excited to see Hauer ad Prince Eric! He's legit the perfect choice

Anyways...

I've been lurking and reading this thread, I know my history, mythology and faerytales; there's a reason I'm majoring in Cultural Anthropology and again, I'm not gonna fret over a Disney movie. Or other stuff like that! It's kinda sad when people freak out over this stuff tbf

But that's just me.

[Reznoviya]

The new twist is that a white guy is playing as the boyfriend *gasp!*

I am not gonna argue about The Little Mermaid. It's really silly how everyone here and everywhere else, are getting their panties in a twist over a damn Disney movie. There are far more important things to fret about lol

And I along with a lot of other Disney/The Little Mermaid fans are excited to see Hauer ad Prince Eric! He's legit the perfect choice

Anyways...

I've been lurking and reading this thread, I know my history, mythology and faerytales; there's a reason I'm majoring in Cultural Anthropology and again, I'm not gonna fret over a Disney movie. Or other stuff like that! It's kinda sad when people freak out over this stuff tbf

But that's just me.

I'm not against blacks in a movie's head role but it feels like Hollywood is trying to unwhiten everything. Even people who already exist. People like Bonnie and Clyde. And if somehow we try to at least get a word in that it is good enough diversity and that we beg for whites to have some main roles alongside the blacks, we'll be called racist or something because There's still white actors in main roles.

[Rojava Free State]

Dark skinned doesn't necessarily mean black although I'm sure some people in Muslim Spain were black. But that's the mediterranean. In northern Europe of that time, I don't know if anyone had even olive skin, let alone super dark skin

Of course they did. Africa and Europe aren't very far away from each other, Africans have been migrating into Europe for about as long as the human species has existed.

African=/=black. Not only are North Africans more similar in appearance to middle easterners and europeans, but even sub Saharan Africans are a very diverse group of people, who often vary in appearance greatly. Not all Africans look like wesley snipes cousins

[Rojava Free State]

I am not gonna argue about The Little Mermaid. It's really silly how everyone here and everywhere else, are getting their panties in a twist over a damn Disney movie. There are far more important things to fret about lol

And I along with a lot of other Disney/The Little Mermaid fans are excited to see Hauer ad Prince Eric! He's legit the perfect choice

Anyways...

I've been lurking and reading this thread, I know my history, mythology and faerytales; there's a reason I'm majoring in Cultural Anthropology and again, I'm not gonna fret over a Disney movie. Or other stuff like that! It's kinda sad when people freak out over this stuff tbf

But that's just me.

I'm not against blacks in a movie's head role but it feels like Hollywood is trying to unwhiten everything. Even people who already exist. People like Bonnie and Clyde. And if somehow we try to at least get a word in that it is good enough diversity and that we beg for whites to have some main roles alongside the blacks, we'll be called racist or something because There's still white actors in main roles.

I once saw someone celebrating America increasingly diversifying and was confused. Like why is that awesome in their opinion? I'm not against it but I don't really care one way or another. Iceland is 99% white and that's totally fine with me. There's no such thing as "too white" or"not white enough"

[Reznoviya]

I'm not against blacks in a movie's head role but it feels like Hollywood is trying to unwhiten everything. Even people who already exist. People like Bonnie and Clyde. And if somehow we try to at least get a word in that it is good enough diversity and that we beg for whites to have some main roles alongside the blacks, we'll be called racist or something because There's still white actors in main roles.

I once saw someone celebrating America increasingly diversifying and was confused. Like why is that awesome in their opinion? I'm not against it but I don't really care one way or another. Iceland is 99% white and that's totally fine with me. There's no such thing as "too white" or"not white enough"

I don't understand all the hublub either. It's as if they think it never meant anything before.

(And I also wasn't kidding to you about the "Bonnie and Clyde being blackfaced" situation. Vox called them a myth and completely forgot that they were real people.)

[Rojava Free State]

I once saw someone celebrating America increasingly diversifying and was confused. Like why is that awesome in their opinion? I'm not against it but I don't really care one way or another. Iceland is 99% white and that's totally fine with me. There's no such thing as "too white" or"not white enough"

I don't understand all the hublub either. It's as if they think it never meant anything before.

(And I also wasn't kidding to you about the "Bonnie and Clyde being blackfaced" situation. Vox called them a myth and completely forgot that they were real people.)

The cult of representation messes history up greatly. In a bid to fix the damage done by the usage of white actors to portray Egyptians in the ten commandments, they have begun representing Egyptians as black in certain TV shows and comics. While there probably were ancient Egyptians who looked "black" (I'm very uncomfortable referring to anyone remotely sub Saharan African in phenotype with this broad and vague term), most of them were genetically and phenotypically similar to people of the next door near east. An Israelite and ancient Egyptian probably looked indistinguishable except for their clothes and languages. If you're gonna try and accurately represent non European peoples then do it right and don't give us the disaster we called "300"

[Reznoviya]

I don't understand all the hublub either. It's as if they think it never meant anything before.

(And I also wasn't kidding to you about the "Bonnie and Clyde being blackfaced" situation. Vox called them a myth and completely forgot that they were real people.)

The cult of representation messes history up greatly. In a bid to fix the damage done by the usage of white actors to portray Egyptians in the ten commandments, they have begun representing Egyptians as black in certain TV shows and comics. While there probably were ancient Egyptians who looked "black" (I'm very uncomfortable referring to anyone remotely sub Saharan African in phenotype with this broad and vague term), most of them were genetically and phenotypically similar to people of the next door near east. An Israelite and ancient Egyptian probably looked indistinguishable except for their clothes and languages. If you're gonna try and accurately represent non European peoples then do it right and don't give us the disaster we called "300"

I see. It appears that 300 was inaccurate and only there to get memed. And I agree. We need to at least get it right.

[Myrensis]

Honestly I don't care about arguments that the original fairy tale was European in origin or whatever

More annoyed that, if they are going to insist on these soulless cash grab live action remakes, the characters should look like they did in the originals, not random diversity recasting as part of Disney's superficial woke pandering marketing strategy.

[Fahran]

Firstly, I do not care about “recontextualizing differences.” The point is to tell the story, and people need to quit dragging racial politics into everything.

Racial politics can be a poignant element in many stories. You don't have to like said racial politics but it doesn't mean that a story is automatically rubbish just because it has a racial and political message.

[Reznoviya]

Firstly, I do not care about “recontextualizing differences.” The point is to tell the story, and people need to quit dragging racial politics into everything.

Racial politics can be a poignant element in many stories. You don't have to like said racial politics but it doesn't mean that a story is automatically rubbish just because it has a racial and political message.

There's a problem though. What if the Story is no longer being important and cares about the racial politics, straying away from the main subject at hand as much as possible to only talk about how people are oppressed for an hour in a whiny tone. And instead of a good story, it's efforts are being put into what a female Misandrist thinks.

[Fahran]

There's a problem though. What if the Story is no longer being important and cares about the racial politics, straying away from the main subject at hand as much as possible to only talk about how people are oppressed for an hour in a whiny tone. And instead of a good story, it's efforts are being put into what a female Misandrist thinks.

You can incorporate political and social commentary into a story without preaching or berating your audience. That's the difference between a well-written story and a poorly-written story. Take for example, the distinction between Mulan, an extremely feminist film that is well-written and contains likable characters, and the recent films advertising feminist heroines that have flopped.

[Reznoviya]

There's a problem though. What if the Story is no longer being important and cares about the racial politics, straying away from the main subject at hand as much as possible to only talk about how people are oppressed for an hour in a whiny tone. And instead of a good story, it's efforts are being put into what a female Misandrist thinks.

You can incorporate political and social commentary into a story without preaching or berating your audience. That's the difference between a well-written story and a poorly-written story. Take for example, the distinction between Mulan, an extremely feminist film that is well-written and contains likable characters, and the recent films advertising feminist heroines that have flopped.

Well they're rebooting that (Mulan) because Mushu is a racist Dragon apparently because Eddie Murphy is playing him.

[Fahran]

Well they're rebooting that (Mulan) because Mushu is a racist Dragon apparently because Eddie Murphy is playing him.

I think it's a lot more likely that Disney wants to do a cynical cash grap on beloved classics from the 1980's and 1990's considering Beauty and the Beast and Lion King seem to have been remade with almost the same dialogue shot-for-shot. Not to mention Frozen 2 and all the other sequels that have been coming out over the last five or so years.

[Katganistan]

Or maybe Disney can just stop with the rehashes that are never as good as the originals?

I don't know, the reimagination of Beauty and the Beast was pretty good. Can't speak for any of the others.

[Rojava Free State]

You can incorporate political and social commentary into a story without preaching or berating your audience. That's the difference between a well-written story and a poorly-written story. Take for example, the distinction between Mulan, an extremely feminist film that is well-written and contains likable characters, and the recent films advertising feminist heroines that have flopped.

Well they're rebooting that (Mulan) because Mushu is a racist Dragon apparently because Eddie Murphy is playing him.

Why is that racist?

[Katganistan]

Which is likely zero, because we all know these live-action adaptations of Disney films end up being shit.

Exactly. It is like Disney ran out of ideas, so they are recycling old ones.

I am sure that Walt Disney is rolling in his grave at the propaganda made by his movie studio.

Doubt it. He made straight-up propaganda during WWII.

[Kowani]

Well they're rebooting that (Mulan) because Mushu is a racist Dragon apparently because Eddie Murphy is playing him.

Why is that racist?

...I feel like the first thing you should’ve asked for was a source.

[Katganistan]

It's perfectly simple. You seem to think that letting non-white people audition for parts is enough, just do that and there's no problem. But casting isn't a neutral process. It certainly isn't a strictly meritocratic process. So it could very easily happen that there would be nothing but white actors in every movie and apparently you would be fine with that.

Ariel is white (Danish), Mulan is Asian (Chinese), and Aladdin is Arabic/Chinese depending on your adaptation. This is not hard, people!

Cast actors who match the parts!

Ariel is a MERMAID. She is half-fish. She is not Danish, the author who wrote her story is.

It's like.... Shakespeare did not have to be a Roman to write Julius Caesar..... nor did his actors. Hell, his actors were not even women for the female parts!

[Ifreann]

Why is that racist?

...I feel like the first thing you should’ve asked for was a source.

No, no. Let's just automatically believe that someone, somewhere, has a bad opinion and jump straight to being mad about their opinion.