Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

[Olthar]

I wonder if there is a parallel universe where gnostic Christians won back in Roman Times and Nicean Christians became heretics, and in present day there is a NationStates where a rare 21st century Nicean Christian is expressing their obscure religious beliefs.

There probably is. The multiverse theory isn’t impossible.

I'd prefer the universe where everything is made of ice cream and candy.

[Thermodolia]

No. I don't need to be saved. If I did, I would refuse. I'd rather burn in an afterlife of my own volition than bend my knee to a divine power I believe is morally bankrupt. Assuming there is one in the first place, which I clearly do not hold.

This is the most weak and trivial philosophy of bad people. You question the morality of God because he did not buy you a pony for your birthday? If he treats people as disposible cattle, it is probably because you are. Nothing is owed to you, and there is nothing immoral about making you live in suffering just as there is nothing immoral about making pigs live in filth. It befits their nature, as does your eternal condemnation befit your own.

But there is no hell. This earth is hell. It doesn’t get worse than this.

[Alvecia]

To add onto this, show some respect as well.

Respect is earned. Religion hasn't earned it for many of us.

Less the religion and more the people. Going around basically insulting people with a dismissive, superior tone, all the while signing off each message as if it’s a polite email just comes off as dickish. And given this isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s still continuing, I can only conclude they aren’t here for any serious debate, but rather just intend to spend some time riling people up before they are once again asked to leave.

[Ascendatore]

Actually, Christianity sees Christians as "children of God" iirc. Al-Islam sees Muslims as slaves of Allah SWT.

Why not both?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

This is the most weak and trivial philosophy of bad people. You question the morality of God because he did not buy you a pony for your birthday? If he treats people as disposible cattle, it is probably because you are. Nothing is owed to you, and there is nothing immoral about making you live in suffering just as there is nothing immoral about making pigs live in filth. It befits their nature, as does your eternal condemnation befit your own.

But there is no hell. This earth is hell. It doesn’t get worse than this.

So Venus is better than Earth?

[Thermodolia]

There probably is. The multiverse theory isn’t impossible.

I'd prefer the universe where everything is made of ice cream and candy.

I’d prefer the one where I wasn’t medically discharged from the army. The one where I’m still in.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Actually, Christianity sees Christians as "children of God" iirc. Al-Islam sees Muslims as slaves of Allah SWT.

Why not both?

What do you mean?

[Zaremoe]

I'd prefer the universe where everything is made of ice cream and candy.

Me too!

[Olthar]

But there is no hell. This earth is hell. It doesn’t get worse than this.

So Venus is better than Earth?

Venus doesn't have politicians.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

We have been saved from disaster several times before and will need saving in the future.

[The Great I am]

Christians admit to those evil actions, and should be forgiven to a point, perhaps, but that does not speak to their ongoing denigration and discrimination against gays and women with their vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

Like Gnostic Christianity didn't have the same moral theology. As people have discussed at length in the CDT, you're not actually a Gnostic and really just seem to be an anti-Christian agnostic.

I did not see the discussions you are talking about but thanks for sharing your B.S.

Tell us though, if Gnostic Christians had the same theology as Christians, why they used their inquisitions on us.

Regards
DL

[Thermodolia]

But there is no hell. This earth is hell. It doesn’t get worse than this.

So Venus is better than Earth?

You know what I ment. This life is hell. There isn’t any fiery afterlife, there might not be any afterlife, this universe is hell.

[Kernen]

No. I don't need to be saved. If I did, I would refuse. I'd rather burn in an afterlife of my own volition than bend my knee to a divine power I believe is morally bankrupt. Assuming there is one in the first place, which I clearly do not hold.

This is the most weak and trivial philosophy of bad people. You question the morality of God because he did not buy you a pony for your birthday? If he treats people as disposible cattle, it is probably because you are. Nothing is owed to you, and there is nothing immoral about making you live in suffering just as there is nothing immoral about making pigs live in filth. It befits their nature, as does your eternal condemnation befit your own.

I'm a bad person. I admit it. Independent of that, I've no interest in being a part of beliefs that demonize and harm the innocent. Of course, a sterling way to win converts is to let people know they're little more than disposable cattle to your bearded, imaginary friend. People love that.

Also, pigs do not, in fact, thrive in filth. That's just poor animal husbandry. And the whole metaphor falls apart when you look at it through that lens.

Respect is earned. Religion hasn't earned it for many of us.

Less the religion and more the people. Going around basically insulting people with a dismissive, superior tone, all the while signing off each message as if it’s a polite email just comes off as dickish. And given this isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s still continuing, I can only conclude they aren’t here for any serious debate, but rather just intend to spend some time riling people up before they are once again asked to leave.

Sounds a lot like the Responding to Tone fallacy to me.

[The Great I am]

No, I'm an atheist, which is something I've received ridicule over by priests due to me proclaiming my refusal to submit to dogma.

Priests are perpetual liars and all intelligent moral people will ignore those liars and their religions out of hand.

Regards
DL

[Novus America]

I wonder if there is a parallel universe where gnostic Christians won back in Roman Times and Nicean Christians became heretics, and in present day there is a NationStates where a rare 21st century Nicean Christian is expressing their obscure religious beliefs.

Just look at the countries that have less religion to see that they are more peaceful than the countries that are more religious. The world peace index is where to confirm this.

Regards
DL

Not always. China for example is rated poorly despite its hostility towards religion.

Certainly extreme religion, just like any extremism is not conducive to peace.

And the top rated countries are predominantly Christian you know.

[Alvecia]

Less the religion and more the people. Going around basically insulting people with a dismissive, superior tone, all the while signing off each message as if it’s a polite email just comes off as dickish. And given this isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s still continuing, I can only conclude they aren’t here for any serious debate, but rather just intend to spend some time riling people up before they are once again asked to leave.

Sounds a lot like the Responding to Tone fallacy to me.

Sounds a lot like the Fallacy Fallacy to me.

[Hammer Britannia]

"Yes, I am currently stuck on a cliff and I am holding on to a single root as to not fall down and die...

Uh... Why are you reading me bedtime stories?..."

Falls and dies

Jokes aside, I have my own gods to look up to. Begone Missionary of the False Prophet Jesus
(jk, I have no problem with Christianity. I just don't believe in it)

You have no problem with a religion that is homophobic and misogynous and grew by inquisitions due to not having decent enough moral tenets to convert with. Ok.

Thanks for showing us your low moral standards.

Regards
DL

Mate, I believe in Zeus. You know, the guy who cheats on his goddess wife with humans, murdered his previous wife Metis by tricking her into turning into a fly and eating her, And don't even get me started on Prometheus. (And mind you, these are just some examples)

If you think Christianity is the fucked up religion in this case, well I have some news for you.

[Ascendatore]

This earth is hell. It doesn’t get worse than this.

Yes, it gets much worse.

Do you even know what cholera was? Did you read the Gulag Archipelago?

Your imagination is clearly limited.

This earth is just one part of hell, being ruled over by Natura, who is cruel at times but at least beautiful and offering decadence to those who choose the path of Strength. As far as failed intelligences in cold storage go, you should rejoice that the system administrator hasn't sold you to the hungry ones.

It will get much worse for us before it is over, you will see.

[Kernen]

Sounds a lot like the Responding to Tone fallacy to me.

Sounds a lot like the Fallacy Fallacy to me.

Prove me wrong, then? The debate looks in earnest to me. Rude, perhaps, but that's what makes it fun.

[Valentine Z]

I need saving from my hectic school schedule.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Sounds a lot like the Responding to Tone fallacy to me.

Sounds a lot like the Fallacy Fallacy to me.

I think we need to have special mods that act as debate referees who point out fallacies so we don't have people yelling fallacies at each other
On topic I think we need people to save us from fallacy yelling

[The Great I am]

Umm... Can I get a quick tl;dr for wtf happened in this thread?

This is GnosticChristian. We're having fun with his illicit account while it still exists.

Free thinkers like Gnostic Christians tend not to be good cookie cutter material. That is one of the benefits of my religion.

Do you see yourself as just a cookie cutter version of those in your new religion?

Regards
DL

...No, that's why I left my faith. Do you think I would just jump from the frying pan to the flame? And what happened to your Protestantism at the start of the thread? Anyways, even though I'm not keen on sharing things about my faith, it's non-abrahamic. There is no cookie cutter. We have our Gods and that's the only similarity we need between each other.

Why the reluctance to show your stripes?

You might help another poor soul who is being denigrated or discriminated against by one of the more vile mainstream religions like Christianity or Islam.

Regards
DL

[Novus America]

Umm because whether or not you contribute to the physical upkeep of the organization usually has no bearing on salvation. All organizations need money to operate. So most religious organizations ask (but do not demand) you donate to help the organization pay for maintenance, electricity, etc. Non religious organizations do the same (though are more likely to demand payment as a condition of membership).

But legitimate religious organizations do not claim your ability to be saved is based on whether or not or how much you donate. Again in the 1560s the Catholic Church declared financial contributions could NOT lead to salvation.

Maybe you should try actually understanding religions before attacking them with strawmen.

Perhaps you should recognize the money grabbing inclination of all religion before putting your straw man forward.

Strange that you do not seem to mind people paying to be lied to.

Regards
DL

If you are going to just shift the goal posts to avoid any actual debate there is no point in debating you.

[Thermodolia]

Sounds a lot like the Fallacy Fallacy to me.

I think we need to have special mods that act as debate referees who point out fallacies so we don't have people yelling fallacies at each other
On topic I think we need people to save us from fallacy yelling

We could make Oprah a mod. You get a fallacy. You get a fallacy. All of you get a fallacy

[Alvecia]

Sounds a lot like the Fallacy Fallacy to me.

Prove me wrong, then? The debate looks in earnest to me. Rude, perhaps, but that's what makes it fun.

How am I to prove the earnestness of another?

As far as evidence goes, my first post contains enough for me.
If nothing else it’s evidence that there is a time and a place for everything, but this is certainly not the place.