MCU/Superhero Discussion Thread

[Lord Dominator]

Welcome to what is now the full superhero discussion thread - formerly just the MCU thread.

Appropriate topics include discussions of Marvel, DC, and other superhero properties in their various mediums. Additionally, extended arguments over the critical and cultural perception of them are expected.

For the sake of allowing people to see new releases unspoilered, please spoiler tag discussions related to something that has just come out for some period to enable at least our regular thread participants to see it or give up caring about spoilers.

Suggestions for polls are always welcome, but otherwise this new OP is a minor work in progress.

With 14 films released, several television series, one shot short films and tie-in comics the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or MCU is perhaps the most ambitious shared television universe to ever be created and is still far from over. Beginning with Iron Man in 2008 and looking forward to Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2, the films alone are worth $10 Billion and the universe gets ever more immersive with each new film and tv series.

This is a thread to discuss everything MCU related. Favorite movies, favorite character, which character you hope gets a movie or which tv series is the best. You get the idea.

I suppose it is only proper for me to start off first.

It's hard for me to pick a favorite movie, but I can say the Cap America Trilogy is my favorite line of MCU movies in the bunch. Other standouts for me are Thor, Iron Man, both Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. Ant-Man actually really surprised me as well. I was actually not impressed with the Iron Man sequels though.

Also, recently re-watched The Incredible Hulk and think it is pretty underrated.

[Ascoobis]

(Image)

With 14 films released, several television series, one shot short films and tie-in comics the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or MCU is perhaps the most ambitious shared television universe to ever be created and is still far from over. Beginning with Iron Man in 2008 and looking forward to Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2, the films alone are worth $10 Billion and the universe gets ever more immersive with each new film and tv series.

This is a thread to discuss everything MCU related. Favorite movies, favorite character, which character you hope gets a movie or which tv series is the best. You get the idea.

I suppose it is only proper for me to start off first.

It's hard for me to pick a favorite movie, but I can say the Cap America Trilogy is my favorite line of MCU movies in the bunch. Other standouts for me are Thor, Iron Man, both Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. Ant-Man actually really surprised me as well. I was actually not impressed with the Iron Man sequels though.

Also, recently re-watched The Incredible Hulk and think it is pretty underrated.

I hope that villains get their chance to shine soon and seem more relateable. Since Loki as the main antagonist in Avengers, villains since have really lacked that kind of charm. Either it's that or it's infighting amongst the heroes(Which is interesting in its own right.)

Hopefully in the future, the more reasonable villains will realize that they will have to form their own teams to combat the Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy/The Defenders/S.H.I.E.L.D./etc.

Last and not least, I'm looking forward to Spider-man: Homecoming and hope that an incarnation of Venom appears at sometime in this story of the MCU.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Honestly even at this point I have the opinion that villains is one of the DCEU's biggest advantages over MCU. Most MCU movies simply use villains as an opposition force for the hero, the films are usually hero-centric. Nothing wrong with that but I completely agree, I would say Loki is the last time I really felt anything for a villain in a Marvel film. Unless you count Magneto in the X-Men movies, but sadly those are not MCU.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Honestly even at this point I have the opinion that villains is one of the DCEU's biggest advantages over MCU. Most MCU movies simply use villains as an opposition force for the hero, the films are usually hero-centric. Nothing wrong with that but I completely agree, I would say Loki is the last time I really felt anything for a villain in a Marvel film. Unless you count Magneto in the X-Men movies, but sadly those are not MCU.

I'd agree with this. Zod and Luthor weren't brilliant villains, and they fell short of Loki, Fisk, Kilgrave, and perhaps Zemo, but they're significantly better than the very flat villains of most the MCU films.

[New haven america]

Can we also agree that the MCU needs to learn how to better place it's comedic and dramatic moments?

It's starting to get really grating having a dramatic or sad moment happen, then have it interrupted or ruined with some random comedic quip or comment.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Can we also agree that the MCU needs to learn how to better place it's comedic and dramatic moments?

It's starting to get really grating having a dramatic or sad moment happen, then have it interrupted or ruined with some random comedic quip or comment.

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

[The Rebel Alliances]

Honestly even at this point I have the opinion that villains is one of the DCEU's biggest advantages over MCU. Most MCU movies simply use villains as an opposition force for the hero, the films are usually hero-centric. Nothing wrong with that but I completely agree, I would say Loki is the last time I really felt anything for a villain in a Marvel film. Unless you count Magneto in the X-Men movies, but sadly those are not MCU.

I'd agree with this. Zod and Luthor weren't brilliant villains, and they fell short of Loki, Fisk, Kilgrave, and perhaps Zemo, but they're significantly better than the very flat villains of most the MCU films.

I really enjoyed Zod, I felt that he was a rather relatable villain especially to start the DCEU with, but more of that when I start the DCEU discussion thread. Unless someone else wants to. But Loki is a phenomenal villain. And even Ultron had his moment, but aside from that it's rare.

Can we also agree that the MCU needs to learn how to better place it's comedic and dramatic moments?

It's starting to get really grating having a dramatic or sad moment happen, then have it interrupted or ruined with some random comedic quip or comment.

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Honestly I feel as if many MCU films border on action comedy. Possibly more comedy. I think it's why The Incredible Hulk gets passed over because of it's more serious tone it doesn't feel as 'fun' as movies like Iron Man and Thor.

[Ascoobis]

I'd agree with this. Zod and Luthor weren't brilliant villains, and they fell short of Loki, Fisk, Kilgrave, and perhaps Zemo, but they're significantly better than the very flat villains of most the MCU films.

I really enjoyed Zod, I felt that he was a rather relatable villain especially to start the DCEU with, but more of that when I start the DCEU discussion thread. Unless someone else wants to. But Loki is a phenomenal villain. And even Ultron had his moment, but aside from that it's rare.

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Honestly I feel as if many MCU films border on action comedy. Possibly more comedy. I think it's why The Incredible Hulk gets passed over because of it's more serious tone it doesn't feel as 'fun' as movies like Iron Man and Thor.

Yeah. I was wondering why they only made one Hulk film....

[The Rebel Alliances]

I really enjoyed Zod, I felt that he was a rather relatable villain especially to start the DCEU with, but more of that when I start the DCEU discussion thread. Unless someone else wants to. But Loki is a phenomenal villain. And even Ultron had his moment, but aside from that it's rare.



Honestly I feel as if many MCU films border on action comedy. Possibly more comedy. I think it's why The Incredible Hulk gets passed over because of it's more serious tone it doesn't feel as 'fun' as movies like Iron Man and Thor.

Yeah. I was wondering why they only made one Hulk film....

If I had to guess, it could be because the film barely broke even in the box office. It had a budget up of $100 million and just broke $200 in theaters.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Yeah. I was wondering why they only made one Hulk film....

If I had to guess, it could be because the film barely broke even in the box office. It had a budget up of $100 million and just broke $200 in theaters.

Given that they now have a different actor playing Banner and the MCU is well-established, I imagine any Hulk sequel would do as well as all the other MCU films do these days, so it's a bit strange that they haven't tried again.

[The Rebel Alliances]

If I had to guess, it could be because the film barely broke even in the box office. It had a budget up of $100 million and just broke $200 in theaters.

Given that they now have a different actor playing Banner and the MCU is well-established, I imagine any Hulk sequel would do as well as all the other MCU films do these days, so it's a bit strange that they haven't tried again.

I don't see a Hulk movie in the works and am fairly certain it won't happen. Edward I don't think was the problem with the first Hulk film. It's serious nature and darker tone just didn't mesh well with what audiences expected. And the film didn't really make a profit for the studio. The character is well received in the Avengers films so I think they have decided to just bring the character in on ensemble casts.

It's disappointing to be sure as every other major Avenger has a trilogy of films. Iron Man, Captain America and Thor gets his 3rd soon.

Disclaimer: Thats just my opinion and speculation, maybe they will surprise us.

[New haven america]

Can we also agree that the MCU needs to learn how to better place it's comedic and dramatic moments?

It's starting to get really grating having a dramatic or sad moment happen, then have it interrupted or ruined with some random comedic quip or comment.

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Dr. Strange.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Dr. Strange.

Can you be a little more specific? I can think of a couple of sad moments in that film, but if there were jokes accompanying them, they weren't jarring enough for me to remember them.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

I'd agree with this. Zod and Luthor weren't brilliant villains, and they fell short of Loki, Fisk, Kilgrave, and perhaps Zemo, but they're significantly better than the very flat villains of most the MCU films.

I really enjoyed Zod, I felt that he was a rather relatable villain especially to start the DCEU with, but more of that when I start the DCEU discussion thread. Unless someone else wants to. But Loki is a phenomenal villain. And even Ultron had his moment, but aside from that it's rare.

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Honestly I feel as if many MCU films border on action comedy. Possibly more comedy. I think it's why The Incredible Hulk gets passed over because of it's more serious tone it doesn't feel as 'fun' as movies like Iron Man and Thor.

Incredible Hulk wasn't passed because of that reason, but it has plenty of other reasons, like the fact that Universal still owns the rights to distribute the movies of Hulk-based where Hulk is the main actor. It is still not solved yet, so it is quite impossible until it is solved for Hulk to acts on his own movie with Universal retaining any distribution rights on Hulk solo movies only but not on movies where Hulk is part of the movie.

In April 2015, Ruffalo said Universal holding the distribution rights to Hulk films may be an obstacle to releasing a future Hulk standalone film,[124] and reiterated this in October.[125] Marvel reacquired the film rights for the character, but Universal retained the distribution rights for The Incredible Hulk as well as the right of first refusal to distribute future Hulk films.[126] According to The Hollywood Reporter, a potential reason why Marvel has not reacquired the film distribution rights to the Hulk as they did with Paramount Pictures for the Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America films is because Universal holds the theme park rights to several Marvel characters that Marvel's parent company Disney wants for its own theme parks.

According to Wikipedia (the quote of above, it has link sources as well). Basically, Universal has the rights for the solo movie, and right of first refusal. Also theme parks rights. And since the strained relationship between Disney/Marvel and Universal is a thing, it is quite an obstacle.

Also on box office. You may have notice that the box office results of Hulk movies so far where he is the main character is not as high as Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Iron Man. Even if the solo movie right is with Marvel, they will be reluctant to put another movie in the series of Hulk where the possibility of high box office result is not guaranteed.

[The Rebel Alliances]

I really enjoyed Zod, I felt that he was a rather relatable villain especially to start the DCEU with, but more of that when I start the DCEU discussion thread. Unless someone else wants to. But Loki is a phenomenal villain. And even Ultron had his moment, but aside from that it's rare.



Honestly I feel as if many MCU films border on action comedy. Possibly more comedy. I think it's why The Incredible Hulk gets passed over because of it's more serious tone it doesn't feel as 'fun' as movies like Iron Man and Thor.

Incredible Hulk wasn't passed because of that reason, but it has plenty of other reasons, like the fact that Universal still owns the rights to distribute the movies of Hulk-based where Hulk is the main actor. It is still not solved yet, so it is quite impossible until it is solved for Hulk to acts on his own movie with Universal retaining any distribution rights on Hulk solo movies only but not on movies where Hulk is part of the movie.

In April 2015, Ruffalo said Universal holding the distribution rights to Hulk films may be an obstacle to releasing a future Hulk standalone film,[124] and reiterated this in October.[125] Marvel reacquired the film rights for the character, but Universal retained the distribution rights for The Incredible Hulk as well as the right of first refusal to distribute future Hulk films.[126] According to The Hollywood Reporter, a potential reason why Marvel has not reacquired the film distribution rights to the Hulk as they did with Paramount Pictures for the Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America films is because Universal holds the theme park rights to several Marvel characters that Marvel's parent company Disney wants for its own theme parks.

According to Wikipedia (the quote of above, it has link sources as well). Basically, Universal has the rights for the solo movie, and right of first refusal. Also theme parks rights. And since the strained relationship between Disney/Marvel and Universal is a thing, it is quite an obstacle.

Also on box office. You may have notice that the box office results of Hulk movies so far where he is the main character is not as high as Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Iron Man. Even if the solo movie right is with Marvel, they will be reluctant to put another movie in the series of Hulk where the possibility of high box office result is not guaranteed.

This is why I am optimistic about the long term DCEU films. WB has access to all DC characters as far as I know while Marvel characters are thrown around various studios.

I do believe that I commented on the low Hulk box office returns, but the legal information is news to me. Damn, even worse than I thought.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Incredible Hulk wasn't passed because of that reason, but it has plenty of other reasons, like the fact that Universal still owns the rights to distribute the movies of Hulk-based where Hulk is the main actor. It is still not solved yet, so it is quite impossible until it is solved for Hulk to acts on his own movie with Universal retaining any distribution rights on Hulk solo movies only but not on movies where Hulk is part of the movie.

In April 2015, Ruffalo said Universal holding the distribution rights to Hulk films may be an obstacle to releasing a future Hulk standalone film,[124] and reiterated this in October.[125] Marvel reacquired the film rights for the character, but Universal retained the distribution rights for The Incredible Hulk as well as the right of first refusal to distribute future Hulk films.[126] According to The Hollywood Reporter, a potential reason why Marvel has not reacquired the film distribution rights to the Hulk as they did with Paramount Pictures for the Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America films is because Universal holds the theme park rights to several Marvel characters that Marvel's parent company Disney wants for its own theme parks.

According to Wikipedia (the quote of above, it has link sources as well). Basically, Universal has the rights for the solo movie, and right of first refusal. Also theme parks rights. And since the strained relationship between Disney/Marvel and Universal is a thing, it is quite an obstacle.

Also on box office. You may have notice that the box office results of Hulk movies so far where he is the main character is not as high as Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, and Iron Man. Even if the solo movie right is with Marvel, they will be reluctant to put another movie in the series of Hulk where the possibility of high box office result is not guaranteed.

This is why I am optimistic about the long term DCEU films. WB has access to all DC characters as far as I know while Marvel characters are thrown around various studios.

I do believe that I commented on the low Hulk box office returns, but the legal information is news to me. Damn, even worse than I thought.

I knew of the legal problems when I checked one of Looper's video (Looper is basically a channel of facts about something, of which Hulk is one of the things they covered)

Here's the link, you'll find more info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQMtZL7y18U

[Forsher]

I think the interplay of comedy and drama is one of the MCU's strengths. I can't think of any sad moments that were interrupted by humour (hell, I struggle to think of more than a handful of sad moments in the entire MCU). Can you link some?

Dr. Strange.

Rewatch Die Hard. Interspersed drama and comedy is how action films are meant to be. Action comedy is comedy with an action plot. You may find action thriller more your speed.

As to villains... Zemo is better than Loki. Ultron is... well, let's just say I was disappointed with Age of Ultron (even the first Avengers is not so good on rewatch... and I really liked that the first time I saw it). Several villains haven't been the point. I'm honestly not fussed if REVENGE is the primary motivation.

With the Hulk... the point of the character, in some respects, is how the Hulk interacts with the other heroes. As the Hulk, agency is not so certain, whereas the other characters are in charge. An isolated Hulk film requires the plot to be driven by other characters (which may or may not include Banner) or would probably have to be more like Memento than is ideal for a concept like the Hulk (it would be a hard sell). And then there are the rights angles already discussed.

In general, the movies are the inferior product. However, I would watch the movies over Iron Fist (man, that soundtrack was awful)... it's difficult to say what the main issue there was... I guess it was just not as well done. Right now, and probably generally, I prefer SHIELD to everything... and then would probably rank them Luke Cage > Daredevil I > Jessica Jones > Various Movies & Agent Carter & Daredevil II > Various Other Movies > Iron Fist.

Unsurprisingly, I will suggest that the "shared" nature of the MCU applies mostly with the films and needs to be reappraised in light of firstly the artificial separation* of the films and television and secondly the barriers between SHIELD and Netflix (cameos or acknowledging that SHIELD exists would be cool).

*Actually, maybe this is less true than I thought but whatever, I am tired.

[Space Pirate Ridley]

At the moment I'm kinda ticked over the circle-jerking that Sony has been doing with the Venom movie they are supposed to be making...

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Dr. Strange.

Unsurprisingly, I will suggest that the "shared" nature of the MCU applies mostly with the films and needs to be reappraised in light of firstly the artificial separation* of the films and television and secondly the barriers between SHIELD and Netflix (cameos or acknowledging that SHIELD exists would be cool).

*Actually, maybe this is less true than I thought but whatever, I am tired.

Yes. MCU needs to establishes two different universes, since it is quite clear that they cannot use the TV materials effectively for the movies, despite the fact it serves to portrayed MCU's setting in a larger-scope in theory. They should be like DC, who established both Arrowverse and DCEU as two different universes and at the same time hinting the possibility of crossovers.

It's much easier and you are able to form a better reception to the fans.

At the moment I'm kinda ticked over the circle-jerking that Sony has been doing with the Venom movie they are supposed to be making...

Sony did mention that their new movie universe would be formed with Venom as their first movie with Black Cat and Silver Sable as their next potential movie ideas, but honestly they should just sell the rights back to Marvel. They already proved twice with Spider-Man that they unable to made it into a profitable franchise, with both Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 3 proved to be their undoing. Their needs to introduced more than just one or two villains and cutting up some character developments were signs.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Honestly, Sony handling another Spiderman movie of any kind scares me a little. After Spiderman 3 especially. Although I certainly did enjoy Spiderman 1 and 2 as well as the Amazing Spiderman. That Gwen Stacy death hit me in my feels.

More than anything I want another crack at Green Goblin that can rival William Defoe.

[Lord Dominator]

I think that two of my favorites would have to be Age Of Ultron and Guardians of the Galaxy.
Dr. Strange, Avengers 1, and Civil War are up there as well.
In terms of Hulk stuff, I'm just hopeful they'll do something with the Leader foreshadowing Incredible Hulk had.

[The Rebel Alliances]

I think that two of my favorites would have to be Age Of Ultron and Guardians of the Galaxy.
Dr. Strange, Avengers 1, and Civil War are up there as well.
In terms of Hulk stuff, I'm just hopeful they'll do something with the Leader foreshadowing Incredible Hulk had.

I would love to see a film where Hulk fights Red Hulk.

[Lord Dominator]

I think that two of my favorites would have to be Age Of Ultron and Guardians of the Galaxy.
Dr. Strange, Avengers 1, and Civil War are up there as well.
In terms of Hulk stuff, I'm just hopeful they'll do something with the Leader foreshadowing Incredible Hulk had.

I would love to see a film where Hulk fights Red Hulk.

Heck, there could be a whole Avengers film with the Leader giving Ross powers to get revenge on the Hulk or whatever.
We get a Hulk film and with more Hulk villains without needing Universal.

[The Rebel Alliances]

Does anyone think it's time for a new poll? Things are slowing down a bit here.

[The Knockout Gun Gals]

Does anyone think it's time for a new poll? Things are slowing down a bit here.

Yes.

Also, Fox just announced release dates for New Mutants, Deadpool 2, and officially titled X-Men : Dark Phoenix.