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by Anagonia » Tue May 02, 2023 12:15 pm
by The Grand World Order » Tue May 02, 2023 4:46 pm
by The Second Order of Life » Tue May 02, 2023 5:31 pm
The Grand World Order wrote:NSG is bad enough with the whole "fishing for reasons to report my ideological opponent" thing. Now, angry NSGers will have an even more ridiculous way of getting their detractors the nasty red text, for instance by seeing if someone has ever used the dreaded n-word in roleplay or something nearly 20 years ago.
On a separate note, if you're an RPer and you haven't moved to another medium for general worldbuilding or at the very least backed your stuff up, you're wrong. The most innocuous things from 15 years ago are going to be the swastikas of the future, and that's not even a purely NS-thing; Max Barry is a publicly known author and cancel-able, and with the purity spiral of modern culture, you will be in the sights eventually.
THE SECOND ORDER OF LIFE
As have our ancestors, we shall maintain
Ruler of the Order, Adamant Will 074, holder of the Mantle of Maintenance and protector of the Articles of Creation
Oh, you want news? Uh... here: The nation does something, some say it's controversial. Local politician does something unexpected, is berated by their party. Outsiders criticise the lack of organisation and commitment in our factbooks, police are still searching for their bodies.Bar, Excitement - - - Hosieries, Animation, Poor, Peril, Youth
She/her.
Not doing good
:
Class 0.14 nation, using this index.
Learn about us!
Trade with us!
For more information, ask! Or read the factbooks, I guess.
by The Black Forrest » Tue May 02, 2023 5:40 pm
The Grand World Order wrote:NSG is bad enough with the whole "fishing for reasons to report my ideological opponent" thing. Now, angry NSGers will have an even more ridiculous way of getting their detractors the nasty red text, for instance by seeing if someone has ever used the dreaded n-word in roleplay or something nearly 20 years ago.
On a separate note, if you're an RPer and you haven't moved to another medium for general worldbuilding or at the very least backed your stuff up, you're wrong. The most innocuous things from 15 years ago are going to be the swastikas of the future, and that's not even a purely NS-thing; Max Barry is a publicly known author and cancel-able, and with the purity spiral of modern culture, you will be in the sights eventually.
by Saor Alba » Wed May 03, 2023 9:13 am
by Kasja » Wed May 03, 2023 11:47 am
The Black Forrest wrote:The Grand World Order wrote:NSG is bad enough with the whole "fishing for reasons to report my ideological opponent" thing. Now, angry NSGers will have an even more ridiculous way of getting their detractors the nasty red text, for instance by seeing if someone has ever used the dreaded n-word in roleplay or something nearly 20 years ago.
On a separate note, if you're an RPer and you haven't moved to another medium for general worldbuilding or at the very least backed your stuff up, you're wrong. The most innocuous things from 15 years ago are going to be the swastikas of the future, and that's not even a purely NS-thing; Max Barry is a publicly known author and cancel-able, and with the purity spiral of modern culture, you will be in the sights eventually.
You could have reduced all of that by simply stating something the lines of;
Rules and views change overtime. What is needed is a little leeway by granting a person a chance to correct or delete offending material which later violates rules.
by The Second Order of Life » Wed May 03, 2023 11:51 am
Kasja wrote:-snip for brevity-
THE SECOND ORDER OF LIFE
As have our ancestors, we shall maintain
Ruler of the Order, Adamant Will 074, holder of the Mantle of Maintenance and protector of the Articles of Creation
Oh, you want news? Uh... here: The nation does something, some say it's controversial. Local politician does something unexpected, is berated by their party. Outsiders criticise the lack of organisation and commitment in our factbooks, police are still searching for their bodies.Bar, Excitement - - - Hosieries, Animation, Poor, Peril, Youth
She/her.
Not doing good
:
Class 0.14 nation, using this index.
Learn about us!
Trade with us!
For more information, ask! Or read the factbooks, I guess.
by Kasja » Wed May 03, 2023 11:59 am
The Second Order of Life wrote:In their defence, the comment they responded to was unnecessary and prone to derailing the conversation itself.
by The Second Order of Life » Wed May 03, 2023 12:16 pm
Kasja wrote:Sometimes we should all take a minute and ask ourselves, "do I really need to post something here?" People need to do that more often.The Second Order of Life wrote:In their defence, the comment they responded to was unnecessary and prone to derailing the conversation itself.
GWO was talking about retroactive rule enforcement (the topic of this thread) by bringing up a very good point about how cancel-culture can and will swing into everyone's sights at one point or another, and that moving your worldbuilding and back-ups offsite is a sure-fire way to save yourself from suffering a fate like Kraven's and losing 20 years of content. Given this is a discussion thread about rule changes and retroactive enforcement, his comment was entirely on-topic and welcome.
THE SECOND ORDER OF LIFE
As have our ancestors, we shall maintain
Ruler of the Order, Adamant Will 074, holder of the Mantle of Maintenance and protector of the Articles of Creation
Oh, you want news? Uh... here: The nation does something, some say it's controversial. Local politician does something unexpected, is berated by their party. Outsiders criticise the lack of organisation and commitment in our factbooks, police are still searching for their bodies.Bar, Excitement - - - Hosieries, Animation, Poor, Peril, Youth
She/her.
Not doing good
:
Class 0.14 nation, using this index.
Learn about us!
Trade with us!
For more information, ask! Or read the factbooks, I guess.
by Nyte » Wed May 03, 2023 12:20 pm
Kasja wrote:Sometimes we should all take a minute and ask ourselves, "do I really need to post something here?" People need to do that more often.The Second Order of Life wrote:In their defence, the comment they responded to was unnecessary and prone to derailing the conversation itself.
GWO was talking about retroactive rule enforcement (the topic of this thread) by bringing up a very good point about how cancel-culture can and will swing into everyone's sights at one point or another, and that moving your worldbuilding and back-ups offsite is a sure-fire way to save yourself from suffering a fate like Kraven's and losing 20 years of content. Given this is a discussion thread about rule changes and retroactive enforcement, his comment was entirely on-topic and welcome.
The Second Order of Life wrote:Kasja wrote:Sometimes we should all take a minute and ask ourselves, "do I really need to post something here?" People need to do that more often.
GWO was talking about retroactive rule enforcement (the topic of this thread) by bringing up a very good point about how cancel-culture can and will swing into everyone's sights at one point or another, and that moving your worldbuilding and back-ups offsite is a sure-fire way to save yourself from suffering a fate like Kraven's and losing 20 years of content. Given this is a discussion thread about rule changes and retroactive enforcement, his comment was entirely on-topic and welcome.
I'm not entirely sure how fearmongering on the future of mankind and cancel culture adds anything to this discussion of a peculiar and highly unusual event that can and probably will be corrected by staff, but if you see that connection, more power to you.
by The Black Forrest » Thu May 04, 2023 9:39 am
The Second Order of Life wrote:Kasja wrote:Sometimes we should all take a minute and ask ourselves, "do I really need to post something here?" People need to do that more often.
GWO was talking about retroactive rule enforcement (the topic of this thread) by bringing up a very good point about how cancel-culture can and will swing into everyone's sights at one point or another, and that moving your worldbuilding and back-ups offsite is a sure-fire way to save yourself from suffering a fate like Kraven's and losing 20 years of content. Given this is a discussion thread about rule changes and retroactive enforcement, his comment was entirely on-topic and welcome.
I'm not entirely sure how fearmongering on the future of mankind and cancel culture adds anything to this discussion of a peculiar and highly unusual event that can and probably will be corrected by staff, but if you see that connection, more power to you.
by The Black Forrest » Thu May 04, 2023 9:45 am
Nyte wrote:Is it unusual though? Or are we only just learning about it now as it was done to someone who was popular enough that people noticed? We have no way of knowing whether or not that's the case, and some of us would like to know that years of our effort, work, and IP is not at risk because of [X].
by Dephire » Mon May 08, 2023 10:43 am
by United Calanworie » Mon May 08, 2023 12:16 pm
Dephire wrote:Per this recent thread, viewtopic.php?f=16&t=534773, how is Kraven's ban still being discussed if grandfather clauses on the forum rules do exist?
by Dephire » Mon May 08, 2023 12:44 pm
United Calanworie wrote:Dephire wrote:Per this recent thread, viewtopic.php?f=16&t=534773, how is Kraven's ban still being discussed if grandfather clauses on the forum rules do exist?
Note the "reasonable observer" portion of Luna's statement. We are effectively having a debate in the modlair over whether or not his content, to a reasonable observer, violated the rules.
by United Calanworie » Mon May 08, 2023 12:50 pm
by Velstrania » Mon May 08, 2023 1:02 pm
United Calanworie wrote:You may be interested in reading more about the endorsement test, from where the phrase "reasonable observer" is considered to stem.
by United Calanworie » Mon May 08, 2023 1:03 pm
Velstrania wrote:I think quite a few people may be interested to know where the line is drawn however.
by Torrocca » Mon May 08, 2023 1:24 pm
by Mallorea and Riva » Mon May 08, 2023 2:42 pm
Dephire wrote:Per this recent thread, viewtopic.php?f=16&t=534773, how is Kraven's ban still being discussed if grandfather clauses on the forum rules do exist?
Torrocca wrote:I think a good question to ask along those lines as well is what would constitute a reasonable observation in the case of a person viewing an NS nation? A reasonable observer, naturally, isn't infallible, and may for instance not notice or review a given nation's factbooks, or not read in-between the lines or even miss something blatant that clarifies such matters about the actual nature of a player's nation, and may see only the surface-level presentation or only what they didn't miss; technically, that could be seen on its own as a reasonable observation, especially if we go off the wikipedia article where the term "reasonable observer" stems from - after all, it's meaning there is based off perception alone. It's worthwhile to be very careful regarding this, because there could be an overcorrection in policy - in either direction - which could very well harm the player base.
by Nyte » Mon May 08, 2023 3:39 pm
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Dephire wrote:Per this recent thread, viewtopic.php?f=16&t=534773, how is Kraven's ban still being discussed if grandfather clauses on the forum rules do exist?
This thread isn't to debate Kraven's deletion (the player isn't banned from anything), or the ongoing discussion regarding the same. You're also misunderstanding Luna's post - game mechanics literally prevent nation names from including "nazi" in them now. This was not always the case. Nazi Flower Power is grandfathered from that mechanic. With respect to the rule, the decision was made at the time to purge many nations that violated the malicious content rule. It was determined that Nazi Flower Power was not one of those nations. If Nazi Flower Power started posting materials in violation of the malicious content rule, then the nation would be dealt with accordingly.Torrocca wrote:I think a good question to ask along those lines as well is what would constitute a reasonable observation in the case of a person viewing an NS nation? A reasonable observer, naturally, isn't infallible, and may for instance not notice or review a given nation's factbooks, or not read in-between the lines or even miss something blatant that clarifies such matters about the actual nature of a player's nation, and may see only the surface-level presentation or only what they didn't miss; technically, that could be seen on its own as a reasonable observation, especially if we go off the wikipedia article where the term "reasonable observer" stems from - after all, it's meaning there is based off perception alone. It's worthwhile to be very careful regarding this, because there could be an overcorrection in policy - in either direction - which could very well harm the player base.
This thread also isn't meant to get into the weeds on the standard for general implementation of moderator action.
by United Calanworie » Mon May 08, 2023 7:24 pm
by La Xinga » Mon May 08, 2023 7:34 pm
United Calanworie wrote:A bad faith post from Querria has been split out to the evidence locker.
by United Calanworie » Mon May 08, 2023 7:36 pm
Bad Faith: It is expected that players post with the intent of making the site a better, more enjoyable place to be - this is good faith posting. Bad faith posting is when a person is no longer interested in this goal, and instead seeks to score points, contributes nothing useful, or is deceitful.
by Querria » Mon May 08, 2023 8:12 pm
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