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[D] On the use/acceptability of doxxing in NationStates

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:54 am

Esternial wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:In my case, I just made it more difficult to find my real name, but y'all refused to delete the posts quoting said information, which is still a way to find that information. And if this is how data requests are handled, am I supposed to feel safe about your website when it involves doxxing threats and whatnot? When your moderation team can't even have a standardized process on how to deal with the most basic requests to handle information?

This is quite concerning.

At the very least Moderation should seek to censor this sensitive information quoted by those posts. I'm not sure how strong the legal protections are for platforms in this context, but it seems to me that the GDPR's Right to erasure applies to this.

I think this also puts the ball with phpBB. When a post is removed through the Moderation console, it should be possible to cascade this removal down to all posts that quote it, removing the quoted content. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible, but since each post has their own ID the dirty way of doing it would be to have a procedure to identify all posts featuring this ID and remove the content within the cited blockquote. However I don't know what your database or frontend looks like.

The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.

Can you (meaning the wider audience, not you specifically Est) link to any of this?
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:59 am

NERVUN wrote:
Esternial wrote:This is quite concerning.

At the very least Moderation should seek to censor this sensitive information quoted by those posts. I'm not sure how strong the legal protections are for platforms in this context, but it seems to me that the GDPR's Right to erasure applies to this.

I think this also puts the ball with phpBB. When a post is removed through the Moderation console, it should be possible to cascade this removal down to all posts that quote it, removing the quoted content. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible, but since each post has their own ID the dirty way of doing it would be to have a procedure to identify all posts featuring this ID and remove the content within the cited blockquote. However I don't know what your database or frontend looks like.

The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.

Can you (meaning the wider audience, not you specifically Est) link to any of this?


It's not reported because most of the work and the actual deeds happen off site so there's nothing moderation can really do at that point. I could explain how it happens and I could even throw out a few names I'm very confident have done it but at the end of the day it's my word versus theirs and that's not going to get anyone anywhere.

Again idk what could actually be done on your guys end but I understand why people like Soldati want to leave because of how toxic things have become.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:11 am

NERVUN wrote:The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

That's fair, though wouldn't it be better to always err on the side of caution and just remove the content? Going back to tell the user they should just edit out the info seems unnecessary, especially if it turns out the post has already been quoted. You're already going to have to modify/delete the posts that quote that content anyway.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

Then that's really something that should be implemented on phpBB's end. Requiring Mods to manually find every post quoting the content someone wants to have deleted doesn't seem like an extravagant feature. Something as simple as a "cascade" checkbox should be available in a Mod's interface when deleting posts when it comes to personal information as well as rule-breaking content.

I've created a thread on the phpBB forums to seek some answers, I'll keep you updated.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:18 am

Moderators only hear about silly casual threats made on the forum. They don't hear about the instances where people have actually left due to a credible threat.

This is logical - it's not as though the doxxer will decide not to spread the info they already have just because the mods make them DoS, after all. The moderators can't get their personal info back for them and mind-wipe the doxxer. The best bet for the victim, personally, is to leave quietly and comply if they believe they are in danger - that's the point of the threat.

I've heard a couple of people who've stayed around the various discords imply that their temporary or permanent departure from the NS mothership is because of such threats. We know it's an issue, but none of us know how widespread it is.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:07 am

NERVUN wrote:
Esternial wrote:This is quite concerning.

At the very least Moderation should seek to censor this sensitive information quoted by those posts. I'm not sure how strong the legal protections are for platforms in this context, but it seems to me that the GDPR's Right to erasure applies to this.

I think this also puts the ball with phpBB. When a post is removed through the Moderation console, it should be possible to cascade this removal down to all posts that quote it, removing the quoted content. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible, but since each post has their own ID the dirty way of doing it would be to have a procedure to identify all posts featuring this ID and remove the content within the cited blockquote. However I don't know what your database or frontend looks like.

The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.

Can you (meaning the wider audience, not you specifically Est) link to any of this?


No, you deleted the posts I asked you to delete, you didn't delete the pertaining information and posts that quote said information. I just went in and checked myself, and I gave you the pertinent posts that dealt just with me because since you told me that "oh you should ask other people who quoted you to delete you" I also assumed your procedure then was "if you want posts that quote said information deleted, they also have to file a GHR", when in many cases said GHR cannot be done because the nations no longer exist.

At least, if you are going to try and claim technological competence, be sure of what you are talking about.

I came back to see how you were handling it. And I can see you are handling it as I expected: as I offered you an olive branch, you just decided to tell everyone else how wrong I was or how you are capable of using the technology given to you, and considering I had to tell you, in the GHR no less, how to do your jobs, something that I as a user shouldn't, this doesn't inspire confidence to me you have picked a technologically savvy team that knows how to properly remove information being requested, considering the first thing the moderator handling it was "oh no, we cannot delete those posts even though they contain the information you told us because the thread is still accessible and you can still ask others to remove said posts that quote that post", which, first of all, wasn't true the first point, and the second point is essentially making me go through more hoops to delete information about me, something you are claiming here that I can do easily, but in reality it isn't that easy to delete information which I request to be deleted.

It also was pretty obvious to anyone that said posts could not be deleted had your moderator spent 5 second to look at the subforum it was in, which is in "archives" I believe, and even regular users know archives is uneditable to regular users because mods put locked threads there for archival purposes. Just how much do you guys really know the website you guys have helped create is called into question, honestly, with this. However, I will work with you and say that if you don't have a way which to see it, and it is not obvious to you (even though I don't believe you actually wouldn't notice since a post in question that is archived is specifically under "archives" if the thread is old and is pruned from the specific subforum that it belonged to anyways, at least based on how your subforums are divided, so I would hazard a guess that that has been your standard operating procedure in regards of old threads), then you should probably make it obvious by adding a note on a closed and archived thread that moderation can refer to, like "this post was moved for archival in [insert date] and it remains only for historical purposes", I realize this is more work, but at the same time I shouldn't have to be questioned as to why do I not edit out the information. Honestly, if we could edit out our archived information in order to protect ourselves I believe most of us would have done so. Now I admit I asked for a few posts that were outside of archives, but the ones dealing with posts in archives should be clear enough that I could not have edited them even if I wanted to because the entire issue is that it is archived and therefore I as a regular user do not have access to write or modify that forum.

I really and truly am not surprised, and I am really and truly not inspired to keep defending moderation when even a legitimate issue like data security and our right to be safe is met with keeping a line instead of addressing the problem. And let's be honest, you do have a problem, and the fact I went out of my way not to act like a belligerent jackass to you as Soldati but raising an issue up outside of General (which is where most people know my personality) and yet I still meet resistance from you doesn't raise confidence in that you can actually keep my data safe or that you even have a standard operating procedure for something as simple as deleting material people request because "oh you just don't have the power, and even if you did it'd be a violation towards other users to delete their posts that contain your information which you now want deleted".

Essentially, what you are saying to me as a user is "haha fuck you, this is our website and we're not going to actually keep your data safe, never mind the little lock icon that's supposed to instill you confidence or the TOS that explains how we handle information requests, we're going to do what we please because fuck you, that's why, and if you dare raise a concern about it we're just gonna hold a line, you're just another user pissed at us anyways", and that feels like an insult when it is the users that make the community, and when they come and try to talk with you in a non-belligerent tone about an issue they see in the community. For you to sit here and question the fact that I didn't know what I was talking about when I know exactly what I am talking about is rich coming from a moderation team which I have to tell them how to do their jobs and how to deal with their own data in a GHR, something I as a regular user shouldn't have to tell you because I am not the one keeping tabs on how you run your website.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:48 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:21 am

As for this question:

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.


It is very obvious why they are not going to come to you, considering even more the blatant message you send to people. In such cases, the point of the threat is to scare people away, and the problem is this: you wouldn't know unless you begin to see a reduction in General's population of dissenting voices. And even if you did, you are woefully incapable of handling it, and we all can tell because you essentially would DEAT them for "threatening another player" something that, in the form of a doxxer, that doesn't really help considering you are making it obvious who reported them -- likely the person being threatened or one of their friends, and you just exposed them to harm unintentionally.
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Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

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Postby Frievolk » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:24 am

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As for this question:

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.


It is very obvious why they are not going to come to you, considering even more the blatant message you send to people. In such cases, the point of the threat is to scare people away, and the problem is this: you wouldn't know unless you begin to see a reduction in General's population of dissenting voices. And even if you did, you are woefully incapable of handling it, and we all can tell because you essentially would DEAT them for "threatening another player" something that, in the form of a doxxer, that doesn't really help considering you are making it obvious who reported them -- likely the person being threatened or one of their friends, and you just exposed them to harm unintentionally.

In the interest of fairness, what else can the Moderation do? Even if they Unperson the Doxxers in question, erase any memory of their existence on the website and the servers just as well as putting a DoS order on them, that won't help the person threatened. While people threatening to doxx others should, in my opinion, be DEATed (Even if only on principle), it wouldn't in truth do much.
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:29 am

Frievolk wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:As for this question:



It is very obvious why they are not going to come to you, considering even more the blatant message you send to people. In such cases, the point of the threat is to scare people away, and the problem is this: you wouldn't know unless you begin to see a reduction in General's population of dissenting voices. And even if you did, you are woefully incapable of handling it, and we all can tell because you essentially would DEAT them for "threatening another player" something that, in the form of a doxxer, that doesn't really help considering you are making it obvious who reported them -- likely the person being threatened or one of their friends, and you just exposed them to harm unintentionally.

In the interest of fairness, what else can the Moderation do? Even if they Unperson the Doxxers in question, erase any memory of their existence on the website and the servers just as well as putting a DoS order on them, that won't help the person threatened. While people threatening to doxx others should, in my opinion, be DEATed (Even if only on principle), it wouldn't in truth do much.


The message should be more vague, for one, like "upon reviewing your account we have decided you don't belong in this community" or something.

Something that is not as blatantly obvious as "you threatened a user therefore DEAT". Considering how sensitive doxxing is and it is an action predicated upon a direct threat, I would think moderation would take more care to protect the victim's identity by not making it so obvious someone made the report and that's why they got DEATed. The culture of moderation to out and shame people is also not productive in this case. As it happened, moderation came out and shamed a few people cybering a few years past in front of everyone, imagine what would happen if they also came and did the same with a doxxer that's a well established figure, or a group of doxxers that are well established figures.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:34 am

I am not as actively lately as I have been in the past, so I haven't noticed any doxxing or threats to do so.

That being said, anyone worried about being doxxed, there is a simple solution: don't post your personal info where others might be able to find it.
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:42 am

Big Jim P wrote:I am not as actively lately as I have been in the past, so I haven't noticed any doxxing or threats to do so.

That being said, anyone worried about being doxxed, there is a simple solution: don't post your personal info where others might be able to find it.


That is, quite simply, the most unhelpful possible thing to say. Like, sure its good advice to give, but it isn't a solution for people who've already got their info out there. Unless you happen to have a time machine you're willing to let them use.
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Postby Luminesa » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:17 am

NERVUN wrote:
Esternial wrote:This is quite concerning.

At the very least Moderation should seek to censor this sensitive information quoted by those posts. I'm not sure how strong the legal protections are for platforms in this context, but it seems to me that the GDPR's Right to erasure applies to this.

I think this also puts the ball with phpBB. When a post is removed through the Moderation console, it should be possible to cascade this removal down to all posts that quote it, removing the quoted content. I'm not sure to what extent this is possible, but since each post has their own ID the dirty way of doing it would be to have a procedure to identify all posts featuring this ID and remove the content within the cited blockquote. However I don't know what your database or frontend looks like.

The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

I am very curious though... if doxxing and threats of is so rampant in General, why has it not been reported here? I admit I am not as active as I used to be because of RL, but I do try to check Moderation regularly and it's been crickets.

Can you (meaning the wider audience, not you specifically Est) link to any of this?

People aren’t going to usually go on threads and say, “Imma doxx you if you don’t comply!” They may do it offsite, or via TGs. This isn’t just a matter of General. This is a matter of NationStates entirely. And the reason why many people may not come forward is the same reason why sex abuse victims often don’t come forward with their rapes. They feel they’ll be mocked, ostracized, thrown aside, and ignored. It happens often enough for sex abuse victims, and given the threats of security that come with a doxxing being similar to those from a rapist, you can bet this happens with them as well. And considering that most of the mods’ responses have been, “Well I don’t see it so clearly it’s not happening,” I think my point and the point of most other people posting here is proven. And closing the thread for whatever reason because you may feel there’s nothing left to say would also prove the point. We don’t want to be told our feelings don’t matter. We want accountability from the people who keep the website running. Fast, swift, and decisive accountability. Not suggestions and backhanded insults at the intelligence of the community.
Last edited by Luminesa on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:47 am

Grenartia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:I am not as actively lately as I have been in the past, so I haven't noticed any doxxing or threats to do so.

That being said, anyone worried about being doxxed, there is a simple solution: don't post your personal info where others might be able to find it.


That is, quite simply, the most unhelpful possible thing to say. Like, sure its good advice to give, but it isn't a solution for people who've already got their info out there. Unless you happen to have a time machine you're willing to let them use.


We are a couple of generation into the internet age. This should be second nature by now.

My info is out there. I suppose I am just not that worried about being doxxed.
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Postby Indo-Malaysia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:04 am

I believe that there should be a hardline policy not only for doxxing, but the threat of such action.

The quoted incident verged on dangerous territory: threatening to rat someone out to a corrupt institution, where said actions could result in death or torture.

I find this absolutely disgusting.
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:13 am

Luminesa wrote:They may do it offsite, or via TGs.

If it's done via TGs, it's by-definition on our site. We can see telegrams. We can, and will, act on them.
Luminesa wrote:And considering that most of the mods’ responses have been, “Well I don’t see it so clearly it’s not happening,”

There is a difference between "It's happening offsite where we have no jurisdiction" and "We're deliberately ignoring your complaint". We operate in a very small corner of a very large internet. If it didn't happen on our site, we have zero power to prevent it, or to prove that it's one of our players. Someone can easily create a Discord account, claim to be Luminesa, and be rude to people. Does that mean that we should take someone's word that it's you, delete your nation, and ban you from the site? How is that just?

Luminesa wrote:Not suggestions and backhanded insults at the intelligence of the community.

Then how about not insulting the intelligence of NationStates mods? We are not the Internet Police. We just do NationStates.


Luminesa wrote:I think my point and the point of most other people posting here is proven.

Not even remotely.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:17 am

The threat of, or the implied threat of doxing, should be a warnable if not a DEATable offense.

That said, I am not sure how you stop it,

that said if i thought someone was breaking the law, and I could dox them, The appropriate local authorities would be getting the information not the denizens of Nationstates.
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:26 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Not suggestions and backhanded insults at the intelligence of the community.

Then how about not insulting the intelligence of NationStates mods? We are not the Internet Police. We just do NationStates.


I have to note I didn't start ripping on y'all's technological competence until your colleagues went on to quote me the TOS and how "I made an error" when I said that I just made it harder for the information I asked to be deleted to be found, considering it's not directly posted by my nation but other people have quoted it, even when the posts that quote the information are still up because reasons. The issue here is that your colleagues are saying one thing, while we're all experiencing another, and while I realize you "just do NationStates", the point is not whether or not you do nationstates, the point is that doxxing is becoming a problem and the community is becoming more toxic, and whether or not the community, including moderation, wants it to continue, and what can we do both from a user standpoint and from a moderation standpoint to deal with it. And the answers provided by moderation have been less than encouraging in this regard, hence my comment that if this is how it is then I am glad I have kept myself distant from NS.

I realize you're not the Internet Police, but the problem is about your community, not the internet, and the issue is happening on your website.
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Saranidia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Saranidia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:30 am

Indo-Malaysia wrote:I believe that there should be a hardline policy not only for doxxing, but the threat of such action.

The quoted incident verged on dangerous territory: threatening to rat someone out to a corrupt institution, where said actions could result in death or torture.

I find this absolutely disgusting.


I wouldn't rat them out despite the fact they were talking like awful bigots. and In the comments in question I didn't threaten to but said Muslims are merciful and so they wouldn't report him despite the fact he was responsible for spreading bigotry.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:38 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Luminesa wrote:They may do it offsite, or via TGs.

If it's done via TGs, it's by-definition on our site. We can see telegrams. We can, and will, act on them.
Luminesa wrote:And considering that most of the mods’ responses have been, “Well I don’t see it so clearly it’s not happening,”

There is a difference between "It's happening offsite where we have no jurisdiction" and "We're deliberately ignoring your complaint". We operate in a very small corner of a very large internet. If it didn't happen on our site, we have zero power to prevent it, or to prove that it's one of our players. Someone can easily create a Discord account, claim to be Luminesa, and be rude to people. Does that mean that we should take someone's word that it's you, delete your nation, and ban you from the site? How is that just?

Luminesa wrote:Not suggestions and backhanded insults at the intelligence of the community.

Then how about not insulting the intelligence of NationStates mods? We are not the Internet Police. We just do NationStates.


Luminesa wrote:I think my point and the point of most other people posting here is proven.

Not even remotely.

That’s a Discord account, not an NS account.

I didn’t insult your intelligence, I felt that the responses we’ve been given have been little more than dismissive and empty. That’s not saying you’re stupid. I’m saying the responses we’ve been given make some of us feel like if we were in trouble, nobody would listen and take our concerns seriously.
Last edited by Luminesa on Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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The Sherpa Empire
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Posts: 3222
Founded: Jan 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:41 am

Saranidia wrote:
Indo-Malaysia wrote:I believe that there should be a hardline policy not only for doxxing, but the threat of such action.

The quoted incident verged on dangerous territory: threatening to rat someone out to a corrupt institution, where said actions could result in death or torture.

I find this absolutely disgusting.


I wouldn't rat them out despite the fact they were talking like awful bigots. and In the comments in question I didn't threaten to but said Muslims are merciful and so they wouldn't report him despite the fact he was responsible for spreading bigotry.


Can you stop trying to drag your argument about Islam in here?
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Kyrusia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 10152
Founded: Nov 12, 2007
Capitalizt

Postby Kyrusia » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:05 pm

From the One Stop Rule Shop (emphasis added):
[violet] wrote:Jurisdiction: Moderators are responsible for the NationStates site. We have no jurisdiction over any third-party sites, forums, or groups, and cannot guarantee their content. Where Moderators participate in off-site groups, they do not act in an official NationStates capacity. Actions that take place outside NationStates should be reported to the administrators of that site or to law enforcement. They may additionally be reported to NationStates via a Getting Help Request, but we will not take action except in the extraordinary case that a user is judged to pose an unacceptable ongoing risk to users of the NationStates site or the site itself. Please don't bring non-NationStates business to the NationStates forums or the Getting Help page.

If you feel something qualifies, report it as instructed; anything beyond this is already stipulated in the OSRS.

"Bob is flaming me on Discord!" = Not something within our realm of concern.
"Bob is saying on Discord he's going to stalk me across NS, find where I live, and hurt me." = Something we'd potentially be interested in hearing about.
Last edited by Kyrusia on Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sassinia
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Dec 31, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Sassinia » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:53 am

Just to give my two cents, This Pakistani guy told me my real name via TG (I have a pretty good idea where might've got it from). Thankfully, his nation was deleted, but I ended up getting kicked from their region. Doxxing is scary shit, and it should not be taken lightly. IMO they should be DoS, but maybe that's just because I've been a victim of it before. *shrug*
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95X
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Posts: 1418
Founded: Sep 30, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby 95X » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:31 am

Grenartia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:I am not as actively lately as I have been in the past, so I haven't noticed any doxxing or threats to do so.

That being said, anyone worried about being doxxed, there is a simple solution: don't post your personal info where others might be able to find it.


That is, quite simply, the most unhelpful possible thing to say. Like, sure its good advice to give, but it isn't a solution for people who've already got their info out there. Unless you happen to have a time machine you're willing to let them use.
The reason older generations suggest this is to slow down the spread of your personal information. People's information is already out there. I remember the phone book for example, unless one paid for an unpublished number one's name, address and phone number were listed.

The stuff that someone has already put on the public internet about themselves where everyone can see it (friends, enemies, co-workers, potential employers, etc.) is their personal responsibility. (I've made that mistake before and I take responsibility for it.)

I was going to add that NS doesn't ask for your personal information. One can answer the 'new nation creation' questions however they wish or ignore them. NS doesn't require an email address, and one can easily create an extra on something like gmail, outlook, gmx, etc. NS doesn't require forum participation, creating factbooks, or posting on regional message boards.
Last edited by 95X on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Esternial
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54394
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:25 pm

Esternial wrote:
NERVUN wrote:The user in question made an incorrect statement. We did in fact go back and delete the quoted material. I just checked the associated tasks.

The problem here was the some of the threads had been locked or archived. However, for a Mod, it's not obvious to us when that's the case. For regular users, you can tell when the edit or reply button is suddenly gone. Mods however never lose said buttons so when Soldati Senza Confini's request came in, it was missed that he could not in fact edit those threads. When it was pointed out, we went back in and did that.

That's fair, though wouldn't it be better to always err on the side of caution and just remove the content? Going back to tell the user they should just edit out the info seems unnecessary, especially if it turns out the post has already been quoted. You're already going to have to modify/delete the posts that quote that content anyway.

And no, there is NO way to to the cascade thing, all post removals are manual. We do have mass move, but that's EVERY post. Not in a thread, I mean, EVERY post.

Then that's really something that should be implemented on phpBB's end. Requiring Mods to manually find every post quoting the content someone wants to have deleted doesn't seem like an extravagant feature. Something as simple as a "cascade" checkbox should be available in a Mod's interface when deleting posts when it comes to personal information as well as rule-breaking content.

I've created a thread on the phpBB forums to seek some answers, I'll keep you updated.

So here's an update.

There's an extension that allows you to find quoted posts. Don't know how well it works, but it's worth looking into. Quoting the author:
Useful for GDPR compliance when a user requests removal.


Seems like something you guys can really use.
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... ted_where/
Last edited by Esternial on Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 27796
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Capitalizt

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:39 pm

Esternial wrote:Seems like something you guys can really use.

It would be if we used up-to-date phpBB software. However, our installation isn't compatible with "For this extension to work properly, all posts on your board should have been parsed by the Textformatter that has been added in phpBB 3.2.". As I understand it, we would have had to dump our entire history (or take the forums down for several weeks or months while we paid to have them converted) in order to upgrade to this version.

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Esternial
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54394
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:45 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Esternial wrote:Seems like something you guys can really use.

It would be if we used up-to-date phpBB software. However, our installation isn't compatible with "For this extension to work properly, all posts on your board should have been parsed by the Textformatter that has been added in phpBB 3.2.". As I understand it, we would have had to dump our entire history (or take the forums down for several weeks or months while we paid to have them converted) in order to upgrade to this version.

Can't you mirror your database?

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