Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

[Elke and Elba]

Not sure if I should fork the thread by starting a new one, but can we insist the moderators open a entirely new R/D/RP summit to solve this issue again?

[Questers]

I thought it was useful input. Gameplay is claiming to be something it isn't.

[Frisbeeteria]

can we insist the moderators open a entirely new R/D/RP summit to solve this issue again?

You can insist all you want, but that won't make it happen. The original R/D summit was requested by [violet], and that's the only way a new one (or a continuation) will be started.

[New Babylonia]

Based on what I've seen, the mods just don't care. They just want us to shut up and take it. In my nation, it's almost Independence Day. We should be free from having to be subjected to that foolish r/d game.

On another note, I'm an American combat veteran. I am so sick of hearing raiders and defenders talk like they are accomplished military commanders. You are not. RPers understand OOC vs IC. Just because some of you raiders can't write your way out of a paper bag doesn't mean you need to ruin nationstates.

You. I like you.

Thank you for serving our nation, too.

But I agree, my biggest problem with them, is that they run around flaunting each victory like they went back in time and won the battle of Waterloo for Napoleon. Its one of the worst cases of puffy chest and over-inflated ego I've ever seen.

[Elke and Elba]

can we insist the moderators open a entirely new R/D/RP summit to solve this issue again?

You can insist all you want, but that won't make it happen. The original R/D summit was requested by [violet], and that's the only way a new one (or a continuation) will be started.

Well, I hope [violet] sees it then.

The current rift between the mods and II mentors is disturbing - it threatens the entire continuity of NS. To not care about the importance of RP will be disastrous to a extent never seen before.

[Unibot III]

Based on what I've seen, the mods just don't care. They just want us to shut up and take it. In my nation, it's almost Independence Day. We should be free from having to be subjected to that foolish r/d game.

On another note, I'm an American combat veteran. I am so sick of hearing raiders and defenders talk like they are accomplished military commanders. You are not. RPers understand OOC vs IC. Just because some of you raiders can't write your way out of a paper bag doesn't mean you need to ruin nationstates.

Lol, owned.

Not particularly. I have no idea why he would assume because someone serves as a defender that they cannot "write their way out of a paper bag". I'm a published author - I can manage a paper bag. We talk like "accomplished military commanders" because we're proud of our work and it takes skill.

Despite the great numbers of you in this thread who are aggressively against invasions, with the field so short on numbers for liberators, liberations are rare events. Shame on us for celebrating our victories as great accomplishments. You can belittle those sentiments all you like, but it doesn't change that fact that one person here is doing their part to prevent invasions and the other is just antagonizing those people for bothering in the first place.

[Pollona]

Not particularly. I have no idea why he would assume because someone serves as a defender that they cannot "write their way out of a paper bag". I'm a published author - I can manage a paper bag. We talk like "accomplished military commanders" because we're proud of our work and it takes skill.

Despite the great numbers of you in this thread who are aggressively against invasions, with the field so short on numbers for liberators, liberations are rare events. Shame on us for celebrating our victories as great accomplishments. You can belittle those sentiments all you like, but it doesn't change that fact that one person here is doing their part to prevent invasions and the other is just antagonizing those people for bothering in the first place.

Yes, it takes skill to destroy other people's work. Especially when certain targets don't want to be involved in your "accomplishments" at all. Most of us could care less about the skill it takes to click a mouse, yet suddenly we must bow in deference to supposedly superior types and pay our dues. This type of argument is ludicrous. I can't believe Roleplayers are being the one's lectured on how to play a game as diverse as Nationstates.

Shame on us for wanting to enjoy other aspects of the game.

[Unibot III]

Yes, it takes skill to destroy other people's work.

How am I destroying anyone's work?

[Registug]

There's already been a precedent set for raiding RP regions. My region, Sapphire, got raided at the end of last year after someone leaked the password, and no one did anything about it. Not defenders and not moderators.

I can't seem to find the moderation thread we made about our password being leaked, but I do remember a moderator saying it was perfectly fine for raiders to raid, and that a password is not an opt-out.

So people who don't want to play raiding and defending simply have to not be on Nationstates at all, it seems.

[Unibot III]

There's already been a precedent set for raiding RP regions. My region, Sapphire, got raided at the end of last year after someone leaked the password, and no one did anything about it. Not defenders and not moderators.

That was a rare case where we did have enough defenders online to prevent the invasion... however, because Sapphire had a password on the region, it blocked defenders from being able to endorse your delegate. This meant invaders (who knew your password) were able to invade it without interference.

[Deusaeuri]

Yes, it takes skill to destroy other people's work.

How am I destroying anyone's work?

I believe his point is that roleplaying regions are communities that take a while to make, and effort to maintain. As the cartographer for an RP region, I've divested many hours into it, and I would be very upset if some raiders simply posted on their forums/rmb the password for the region, which takes, maybe ten minutes, and more or less destroyed any further usefulness of my work.

[Feazanthia]

Guys, just want you to know, we have been in talks with those higher than ourselves.

Your/Our concerns are being heard by relevant people. We cannot promise anything, but you are not being ignored.

[The Orson Empire]

You can insist all you want, but that won't make it happen. The original R/D summit was requested by [violet], and that's the only way a new one (or a continuation) will be started.

Well, I hope [violet] sees it then.

The current rift between the mods and II mentors is disturbing - it threatens the entire continuity of NS. To not care about the importance of RP will be disastrous to a extent never seen before.

Right now, it seems the mods don't care at all. They have ignored the issue, and it has only gotten worse over time.

[Registug]

There's already been a precedent set for raiding RP regions. My region, Sapphire, got raided at the end of last year after someone leaked the password, and no one did anything about it. Not defenders and not moderators.

That was a rare case where we did have enough defenders online to prevent the invasion... however, because Sapphire had a password on the region, it blocked defenders from being able to endorse your delegate. This meant invaders (who knew your password) were able to invade it without interference.

And despite having advance warning, you didn't inform us of the raid, and the raiders didn't let us know we were aboutto be raided, and we ccouldn't do anything because we don't play the R/D side of Nationstates.

The raiders then went on about their "amazing victory" in griefing an undefended target and then you went back to your UDL thread and told Mall "well played", while meanwhile we were having our board vandalised and Mall fully intended to delete three years worth of writing.

[Pollona]

Yes, it takes skill to destroy other people's work.

How am I destroying anyone's work?

Depends on what you define as work. If you define work as building your own region (and sequentially a community) that has, over the years, developed it's own traditions and style of playing then yes, invading it and ejecting it's occupants could be seen as a form of destruction.

How am I destroying anyone's work?

I believe his point is that roleplaying regions are communities that take a while to make, and effort to maintain. As the cartographer for an RP region, I've divested many hours into it, and I would be very upset if some raiders simply posted on their forums/rmb the password for the region, which takes, maybe ten minutes, and more or less destroyed any further usefulness of my work.

^ Or I could have just said this. Thank you.


Roleplay objections are not so much centered on the mechanic itself, but rather a consequence of being forced to play, when we have better uses of our time. There are literally thousands of things we could be doing other than sitting around waiting for the SC to Lulz "liberate" our region or having to worry about inactive Founders.

[New Babylonia]

Well, I hope [violet] sees it then.

The current rift between the mods and II mentors is disturbing - it threatens the entire continuity of NS. To not care about the importance of RP will be disastrous to a extent never seen before.

Right now, it seems the mods don't care at all. They have ignored the issue, and it has only gotten worse over time.

And unlike other times when they seem to have done this, this problem won't go away. There's far too many people raising the banner behind it.

[The Kievan People]

Not particularly. I have no idea why he would assume because someone serves as a defender that they cannot "write their way out of a paper bag". I'm a published author - I can manage a paper bag. We talk like "accomplished military commanders" because we're proud of our work and it takes skill.

Despite the great numbers of you in this thread who are aggressively against invasions, with the field so short on numbers for liberators, liberations are rare events. Shame on us for celebrating our victories as great accomplishments. You can belittle those sentiments all you like, but it doesn't change that fact that one person here is doing their part to prevent invasions and the other is just antagonizing those people for bothering in the first place.

Liberators might be well intentioned, but ultimately they are just legitimizing the game. I think I can say many of of us who do not R & D don't want to participate AT ALL. We just want to be left in peace to play the game the way we want to. Being forced to do it for 'noble' reasons is still being forced to do it.

[Deusaeuri]

Well, I hope [violet] sees it then.

The current rift between the mods and II mentors is disturbing - it threatens the entire continuity of NS. To not care about the importance of RP will be disastrous to a extent never seen before.

Right now, it seems the mods don't care at all. They have ignored the issue, and it has only gotten worse over time.

It has been stated several times they're trying to deal with it, literally once even right above you. They have private methods of communication. There's no rule anywhere that mod/admin discussion must be transparent and public.

[Lux Santus]

can we insist the moderators open a entirely new R/D/RP summit to solve this issue again?

You can insist all you want, but that won't make it happen. The original R/D summit was requested by [violet], and that's the only way a new one (or a continuation) will be started.

While the term "insisting" might be a bit heavy, a consideration would definitely be appropriate. Please consider the idea of another summit. If it's already considered or under consideration, it'll be reassuring for people who are sensitive in the matter to be notified, or better yet, on a public post where members can see.

As we cannot see what moderators discuss, I believe it would be an excellent idea to disclose at what stage the issue is being discussed. It doesn't have to be detailed.

[Ainin]

Guys, just want you to know, we have been in talks with those higher than ourselves.

Your/Our concerns are being heard by relevant people. We cannot promise anything, but you are not being ignored.

Thanks for the update! It's good knowing that we're not yelling at a brick wall.

How am I destroying anyone's work?

Depends on what you define as work. If you define work as building your own region (and sequentially a community) that has, over the years, developed it's own traditions and style of playing then yes, invading it and ejecting it's occupants could be seen as a form of destruction.

He's a defender. He's not destroying anyone's work.

[Feazanthia]

You can insist all you want, but that won't make it happen. The original R/D summit was requested by [violet], and that's the only way a new one (or a continuation) will be started.

While the term "insisting" might be a bit heavy, a consideration would definitely be appropriate. Please consider the idea of another summit. If it's already considered or under consideration, it'll be reassuring for people who are sensitive in the matter to be notified, or better yet, on a public post where members can see.

As we cannot see what moderators discuss, I believe it would be an excellent idea to disclose at what stage the issue is being discussed. It doesn't have to be detailed.

There are top men working on it.

Top. Men.


...seriously, though. Stuff is filtering up. Solutions are being tossed around. Today has had an effect. Can't promise anything though, but today has been noticed.

[Pollona]

He's a defender. He's not destroying anyone's work.

My apologies, I was arguing the perspective of a raider, not a defender.

[Unibot III]

How am I destroying anyone's work?

I believe his point is that roleplaying regions are communities that take a while to make, and effort to maintain. As the cartographer for an RP region, I've divested many hours into it, and I would be very upset if some raiders simply posted on their forums/rmb the password for the region, which takes, maybe ten minutes, and more or less destroyed any further usefulness of my work.

But I've dedicated most of my NationStates career to preventing and ending those occupations!? I've had my own region destroyed and I completely agree that it is upsetting to lose something you've worked hard to build.

I don't understand, however, why some posters here seem to conflate the motivations and the work of "invaders" with "defenders". There seems to be some grand myth here that we're all really one clique that wants to see everyone's regions torched. Instead of seeing defenders as your friends, allies, even colleagues... you seem them as outsiders, who aren't working for you, but working against you.

And despite having advance warning, you didn't inform us of the raid, and the raiders didn't let us know we were aboutto be raided, and we ccouldn't do anything because we don't play the R/D side of Nationstates.

WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WOULD STRIKE. There are thousands of regions in NationStates. We knew they were going to strike, but we had to act completely on a reactionary basis. That's how defending works. -_-

The raiders then went on about their "amazing victory" in griefing an undefended target and then you went back to your UDL thread and told Mall "well played", while meanwhile we were having our board vandalised and Mall fully intended to delete three years worth of writing.

No I was cheering on defenders because they had woken up early in the morning to try an attempt to free your region and we lost narrowly. In other words, I wanted to keep up morale, which bleeds with every failed liberation.

viewtopic.php?p=17033556#p17033556

We kept up regular communication with Sapphire and, I mean the first thing I did when Sapphire was raided was contact nations in Sapphire and then I went to a few roleplayer IRC channels and began discussing the liberation ahead with roleplayers.

[Lux Santus]

While the term "insisting" might be a bit heavy, a consideration would definitely be appropriate. Please consider the idea of another summit. If it's already considered or under consideration, it'll be reassuring for people who are sensitive in the matter to be notified, or better yet, on a public post where members can see.

As we cannot see what moderators discuss, I believe it would be an excellent idea to disclose at what stage the issue is being discussed. It doesn't have to be detailed.

There are top men working on it.

Top. Men.


...seriously, though. Stuff is filtering up. Solutions are being tossed around. Today has had an effect. Can't promise anything though, but today has been noticed.

I'm sure it's a matter being discussed heavily between the people on the top. I hope for a swift and sound solution (or a good starting point) that would result from all those talks.

[Vangaziland]

Whatever Unibot. Laud yourself all you want. I played defender once or twice and it was ridiculous. Just because I liberated a region doesn't give me some sense of glory. If it did, that would mean I hadn't accomplished much in my life. Good luck with your publishing and I hope you find better uses of your time...

P.S. I know tons of defenders who can't write their way out of a paper bag... I mean that literally. They admit it and their regions are useless. Some have over 550 nations and nothing productive gets done. Because they haven't the slightest clue on how to write or manage differing interests.

You are not the only R/D player.. So don't come up here like you're all a bunch of published writers..