Black Riders raiding rp regions now?

[Rionese Isles]

http://www.nationstates.net/region=greater_dienstad

If I remember correctly, Gameside and Roleplay regions are separated. However, Greater Dienstad an rp region, just got raided by the Black Riders, a game side group. Can Moderation look into this?

[Sedgistan]

There's no separation - they can invade whatever region they like. However, if the founder removes the delegate's access to regional controls, then they won't be able to do anything if they do take the delegacy.

[Kinsgard]

The end is nigh!

Ours is deserved damnation!

[Lyras]

Seems a whisker silly, 'tis all. Nothing gained, save some RPs interfered with, and a bit of random chestbeating. Go black riders, great achievement... I suppose...?

[Rionese Isles]

There's no separation - they can invade whatever region they like. However, if the founder removes the delegate's access to regional controls, then they won't be able to do anything if they do take the delegacy.

Then what's the point being apart of the site? If we can get invaded by a bunch of gamesiders, what a wonderful way to kill of rps no? We don't go prancing around into Gameside business, why should they into ours? We purposely set up our RP regions to be separate from the Gameside so we can enjoy NS how we like. The only thing we may deal with in regards to Gameside is treating the WA like a UN on some rps. Hence why we keep WA delegates. Allowing this is a wonderful way for people to leave the site and look for others, [which mind you is a hard ordeal since NS is arguably one of the biggest nation RP sites on the web] and others don't match. So, Moderation is just going to sit by and allow this to happen then?

I find that arguably unfair and a good way to destroy the rping situation in regions that are strictly. for. RP.

[Morrdh]

Never been keen on the whole Raider/Defender thing to begin with, though never had issue since it was kept amongst the R/D regions.

Now if RP regions are fair game then NS has become a bit pointless, so much so that I'll be looking at other sites.

A simple rule enforced by the Mods such as "RP regions can't be hit" would go a long way.

[Rionese Isles]

Never been keen on the whole Raider/Defender thing to begin with, though never had issue since it was kept amongst the R/D regions.

Now if RP regions are fair game then NS has become a bit pointless, so much so that I'll be looking at other sites.

A simple rule enforced by the Mods such as "RP regions can't be hit" would go a long way.

Especially considering it says, in obvious vision on the tags. ''Roleplayer'' you'd figure Gamesiders would get a clue, we don't want a part in it.

[Mad Jack]

Raiding RP regions is nothing new. It's happened for years.

Never been keen on the whole Raider/Defender thing to begin with, though never had issue since it was kept amongst the R/D regions.

Now if RP regions are fair game then NS has become a bit pointless, so much so that I'll be looking at other sites.

A simple rule enforced by the Mods such as "RP regions can't be hit" would go a long way.

Especially considering it says, in obvious vision on the tags. ''Roleplayer'' you'd figure Gamesiders would get a clue, we don't want a part in it.

And then defenders go around putting the "roleplayer" tag on every founderless region.

Better security measures on GD's part would've prevented this. An active founder. A WA delegate with more than one endorsement. A password.

[Morrdh]

Raiding RP regions is nothing new. It's happened for years.

Especially considering it says, in obvious vision on the tags. ''Roleplayer'' you'd figure Gamesiders would get a clue, we don't want a part in it.

And then defenders go around putting the "roleplayer" tag on every founderless region.

Better security measures on GD's part would've prevented this. An active founder. A WA delegate with more than one endorsement. A password.

Our founder is still around even if they only post every few weeks, the endorsements yeah I have to agree here.

GD's never had a password, we had a reputation for being an open RP region that anyone could join.

[Rionese Isles]

Raiding RP regions is nothing new. It's happened for years.

Especially considering it says, in obvious vision on the tags. ''Roleplayer'' you'd figure Gamesiders would get a clue, we don't want a part in it.

And then defenders go around putting the "roleplayer" tag on every founderless region.

Better security measures on GD's part would've prevented this. An active founder. A WA delegate with more than one endorsement. A password.

Indeed. But you'd figure that since we don't play their game over the R/D thing, they'd leave us alone. As well, the fact Moderation is just turning a blind eye, is irking me, check the board, not one of us is happy over this. They wiped out our message board which had links like the rp map on it, which we use among other information. As well, if we were in a region, and they pulled the ejection crap on all of us, that suddenly destroys any rp we had that was centrical to the region.

[Port blood]

defender think raiders are evil,raiders dont think so

can we just keep it at that before it gets more insulting?

[TheStonedSurfers]

I would think, then, since you have an active founder...... that the founder could just, you know, kick out the raiders and have done with it. I mean, that's what the founder is for.

[Sedgistan]

Locked pending warnings for spamming Moderation, and responses to other points as necessary.

[Sedgistan]

The end is nigh!

Ours is deserved damnation!

Seems a whisker silly, 'tis all. Nothing gained, save some RPs interfered with, and a bit of random chestbeating. Go black riders, great achievement... I suppose...?

Unnecessary commentary - unofficial warnings for spamming in Moderation.

Then what's the point being apart of the site? If we can get invaded by a bunch of gamesiders, what a wonderful way to kill of rps no? We don't go prancing around into Gameside business, why should they into ours? We purposely set up our RP regions to be separate from the Gameside so we can enjoy NS how we like. The only thing we may deal with in regards to Gameside is treating the WA like a UN on some rps. Hence why we keep WA delegates. Allowing this is a wonderful way for people to leave the site and look for others, [which mind you is a hard ordeal since NS is arguably one of the biggest nation RP sites on the web] and others don't match. So, Moderation is just going to sit by and allow this to happen then?

I find that arguably unfair and a good way to destroy the rping situation in regions that are strictly. for. RP.

There are protections against invasion - a founder (who can immediately reverse the changes, as can be done in this case), who can also remove the delegate's access to regional controls - thus making any invasion pointless as the invader delegate won't be able to do anything. There are also passwords. However, fundamentally Nationstates is a nation simulation game. If you have an "account" here, you have a nation in the game. You can choose to ignore the game side of things, but you can't opt-out of being in it.

Never been keen on the whole Raider/Defender thing to begin with, though never had issue since it was kept amongst the R/D regions.

Now if RP regions are fair game then NS has become a bit pointless, so much so that I'll be looking at other sites.

A simple rule enforced by the Mods such as "RP regions can't be hit" would go a long way.

Any region can be invaded; that's always been the case. No such rule has ever existed, or ever will.

Especially considering it says, in obvious vision on the tags. ''Roleplayer'' you'd figure Gamesiders would get a clue, we don't want a part in it.

I don't imagine many regions want to be invaded, but it's part of the game. Raiding essentially uses the basic game mechanics (moving regions, endorsing nations etc.) in an entirely legal way. Again - you're in a nation simulation game.

Our founder is still around even if they only post every few weeks, the endorsements yeah I have to agree here.

GD's never had a password, we had a reputation for being an open RP region that anyone could join.

As I suggested above, if the founder denies the delegate position access to regional controls, an invasion can effectively do nothing.

defender think raiders are evil,raiders dont think so

can we just keep it at that before it gets more insulting?

More unnecessary, unhelpful commentary - unofficial warning for spamming in Moderation.

Re-opening in case of further relevant questions.

[Cardinal Tetras]

There is specifically Griefing being committed by the Raiding group who are specifically targeting roleplaying regions who do not want to participate in the R&D game, and specifically for that reason. I feel there should be an option to allow Roleplay regions to opt out of R&D aspect of NS and not have to put a password on their region which essentially limits the roleplaying pool because a person has to actually figure out the password before joining the region, and when certain nations explicitly declare that they are doing this on purpose to get riles out of players on NS, this isn't kosher, Roleplayers have explicitly stated numerous times that they do not want to participate in R&D, but also don't want to block new players from the region, so how will we be able to solve this problem?

Also Example of admitted trolling [quote=nacht_reiter;4827913]I think this is going to be my next raiding bias, targeting rp regions [/quote]
[quote=nacht_reiter;4827935]And we like it, I feel good when I see pissed natives. Makes me want to see it again [/quote]


[quote=nacht_reiter;4827970]I can get you deleted by mods if you continue [/quote]
Now using mods as weapons

[Ganos Lao]

-snip-

You don't need to use the quote function for posts on the regional RMBs.

As a heads up, you should rely on the GHRs to report any goings on in a regional RMB.

[Swith Witherward]

Re-opening in case of further relevant questions.

I'm asking this as a RP regional founder:

What is the possibility of increasing the number of TG sent at one time? It's currently set at 8 (for free). Many NS members are minors who can't afford to buy stamps or else don't have a means of paying for them. I ask this because P2TM RP-based regions form in order for players to communicate easily.

These regions rely upon the delegate and founder to pass along pertinent RP information to players clustered in that region. These people forward thread-specific updates, monitor data and so on. It's the fastest method of communication, even if it's nothing more than "When you log on, immediately go here". The answer isn't, "Well, use your OOC for that" - because some regions support multiple RP with multiple OOC/IC threads in P2TM.

When raiders raid a RP region (P2TM-based) they do more than just disrupt some obscure region - they have the potential to shut down multiple game threads by disrupting lines of communication. Booting RP members from the Region makes it difficult for those players to reconnect or communicate while their region is held. Not all regions have an OSF. In the short term perhaps upping the number of TG allowed to be sent for free would help ease some of the chaos whenever a RP-based region is raided?

---

Now that I've had some time to listen to more behind-the-scenes panic chatter...

A question about designating regions:

Some RP-Based regions are also player mentoring sites. Players go there when they have P2TM-based questions. Some of us have set up regions with an OSF to specifically support new NS RPers. My own region doesn't have many members, but P2TM players visit our page/use our OSF to learn, for example.

Is there any way to give sanctuary to regions that are set up for this primary purpose? We sanction/condemn entire regions via nifty a graphic. Perhaps we could add a graphic to those regions that serve a purpose other than just "silly gaming"? Passwording and limiting delegate status is fine and dandy, but it defeats the purpose of setting up a safe haven for noobs.

Thanks for reading my ramble.

~ Swith

edit 1: typo.
edit 2: additional question asked.

[Cardinal Tetras]

The problem continues to be that RPing regions should not have to actually have R&D forced upon them with the only option out being locking any and all new RPers into the region. This is especially punitive to roleplayers because it stagnates and stalls roleplay recruiting by keeping people from joining the region.

I don't imagine many regions want to be invaded, but it's part of the game. Raiding essentially uses the basic game mechanics (moving regions, endorsing nations etc.) in an entirely legal way. Again - you're in a nation simulation game.

This is untrue. There are plenty of gameplay friendly regions. Roleplay regions are not essentially the same as Gameplay, you cannot ignore the gameplay aspect when your region board that has all the information on open RPs and the RP map and the offsite forums are gone. This is something that only specifically disrupts the RPers, not the gameplayers, who have their own niche.

[Sedgistan]

There is specifically Griefing being committed by the Raiding group who are specifically targeting roleplaying regions who do not want to participate in the R&D game, and specifically for that reason. I feel there should be an option to allow Roleplay regions to opt out of R&D aspect of NS and not have to put a password on their region which essentially limits the roleplaying pool because a person has to actually figure out the password before joining the region, and when certain nations explicitly declare that they are doing this on purpose to get riles out of players on NS, this isn't kosher, Roleplayers have explicitly stated numerous times that they do not want to participate in R&D, but also don't want to block new players from the region, so how will we be able to solve this problem?

Players can invade a region for whatever reason they like, or none at all. If they were attempting to drive you from the game, that would be another matter, but there's no evidence that is the intention here.

The RMB posts have been addressed.

What is the possibility of increasing the number of TG sent at one time

Ask in Technical - it's not a Moderation matter.

A question about designating regions:

Some RP-Based regions are also player mentoring sites. Players go there when they have P2TM-based questions. Some of us have set up regions with an OSF to specifically support new NS RPers. My own region doesn't have many members, but P2TM players visit our page/use our OSF to learn, for example.

Is there any way to give sanctuary to regions that are set up for this primary purpose? We sanction/condemn entire regions via nifty a graphic. Perhaps we could add a graphic to those regions that serve a purpose other than just "silly gaming"? Passwording and limiting delegate status is fine and dandy, but it defeats the purpose of setting up a safe haven for noobs.

Thanks for reading my ramble.

Have a founder, and remove delegate access to regional controls. It's quite simple, and it means you don't have to worry about invasions.

The problem continues to be that RPing regions should not have to actually have R&D forced upon them with the only option out being locking any and all new RPers into the region. This is especially punitive to roleplayers because it stagnates and stalls roleplay recruiting by keeping people from joining the region.

As I've now repeatedly said - founder + deny delegate access to regional controls = safe from invasion.

I don't imagine many regions want to be invaded, but it's part of the game. Raiding essentially uses the basic game mechanics (moving regions, endorsing nations etc.) in an entirely legal way. Again - you're in a nation simulation game.

This is untrue. There are plenty of gameplay friendly regions. Roleplay regions are not essentially the same as Gameplay, you cannot ignore the gameplay aspect when your region board that has all the information on open RPs and the RP map and the offsite forums are gone. This is something that only specifically disrupts the RPers, not the gameplayers, who have their own niche.

Which part is untrue?

[Ulthrani]

So, I am curious Sedgistan, when one of the Black Riders, a chap by the name of Nacht Reiter writes that:

"Hehe, I'm not going to tell you more than is needed about how we crack regional passwords."

I'm sorry if this is just an act of trolling, but even the notion of someone being able to crack the passwords of region, that should be looked into at the very least and if it is true, acted upon by members of the moderating community.

I'll go ahead and pop a few more quotes down from Nacht Reiter:

"We're just pinning this on our target list and when it comes up, we make a plan. While we wait for it we raid some other RPers I think this is going to be my next raiding bias, targeting rp regions"

"And we like it, I feel good when I see pissed natives. Makes me want to see it again "

"Hmmmm, who are you?.......curious. And I'm very calm, that is just the pure evil talking through me I really hope that the founder will CTE, this region is very juicy "

"greater Dienstad just happened to pop up on our target list, it's random, we don't check what you do, we just raid and mess things up. And from now on will do this every update as long as we can Cheers."

Shouldn't this kind of blatant trolling be suppressed or at-least be given some form of scrutiny?

[Sedgistan]

The "cracking passwords" part almost certainly refers to infiltrating the region (so posing as natives/roleplayers interested in joining or whatever), which is a not uncommon tactic, and legal.

Several posts on the RMB have been reported already; those that were actionable were dealt with. Someone saying they wish to target your region again is not actionable, nor is saying they wish to target RP regions, and nor is some level of gloating/celebration of a successful raid. The posts you cite there are not against the rules.

If you have other posts you want reviewed, please report them in the appropriate place for gameside offences - Getting Help Request.

[Ulthrani]

Too easy.

[Grenartia]

There is specifically Griefing being committed by the Raiding group who are specifically targeting roleplaying regions who do not want to participate in the R&D game, and specifically for that reason. I feel there should be an option to allow Roleplay regions to opt out of R&D aspect of NS and not have to put a password on their region which essentially limits the roleplaying pool because a person has to actually figure out the password before joining the region, and when certain nations explicitly declare that they are doing this on purpose to get riles out of players on NS, this isn't kosher, Roleplayers have explicitly stated numerous times that they do not want to participate in R&D, but also don't want to block new players from the region, so how will we be able to solve this problem?

Players can invade a region for whatever reason they like, or none at all. If they were attempting to drive you from the game, that would be another matter, but there's no evidence that is the intention here.

The RMB posts have been addressed.

What is the possibility of increasing the number of TG sent at one time

Ask in Technical - it's not a Moderation matter.

A question about designating regions:

Some RP-Based regions are also player mentoring sites. Players go there when they have P2TM-based questions. Some of us have set up regions with an OSF to specifically support new NS RPers. My own region doesn't have many members, but P2TM players visit our page/use our OSF to learn, for example.

Is there any way to give sanctuary to regions that are set up for this primary purpose? We sanction/condemn entire regions via nifty a graphic. Perhaps we could add a graphic to those regions that serve a purpose other than just "silly gaming"? Passwording and limiting delegate status is fine and dandy, but it defeats the purpose of setting up a safe haven for noobs.

Thanks for reading my ramble.

Have a founder, and remove delegate access to regional controls. It's quite simple, and it means you don't have to worry about invasions.

The problem continues to be that RPing regions should not have to actually have R&D forced upon them with the only option out being locking any and all new RPers into the region. This is especially punitive to roleplayers because it stagnates and stalls roleplay recruiting by keeping people from joining the region.

As I've now repeatedly said - founder + deny delegate access to regional controls = safe from invasion.

This is untrue. There are plenty of gameplay friendly regions. Roleplay regions are not essentially the same as Gameplay, you cannot ignore the gameplay aspect when your region board that has all the information on open RPs and the RP map and the offsite forums are gone. This is something that only specifically disrupts the RPers, not the gameplayers, who have their own niche.

Which part is untrue?

Except, a delegate having access to regional controls helps keep things running when the founder is offline. Its crucial to RP regions to have a delegate with powers. Your suggestions are about as useful as telling somebody the best way to not be robbed is to avoid being robbed.

I would like to ask if the mods would consider the merits of the following suggestion:

Regions can apply for an official gameplay-exemption status, which would mean that mods will take action against raiding attempts, as long as the region does not take part in any aspect of the raiding/defending part of the game.

[Sedgistan]

I think discussion of that is best taken to this thread in Technical, where a similar suggestion has been made.

[Maronia]

I think discussion of that is best taken to this thread in Technical, where a similar suggestion has been made.

Are you aware that the black raiders are making multiple accounts while being in a region and applying for WA, endorsing and then leaving it?

Which is pretty violation of the world assembly rules and maybe nation states as WA is apart of the Nationstates.