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The Suggestion Box

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Edlichbury
Minister
 
Posts: 3017
Founded: Aug 05, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Edlichbury » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Sneaky Bastards wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Not acting like an ass might be beneficial to your want.


Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.



Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?

It's not suspicious at all that suddenly one of your critics is DEATed.

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Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19376
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Sneaky Bastards wrote:
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:
Not acting like an ass might be beneficial to your want.


Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.



Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?


Generalized insults and nastiness offer nothing of value to the discussion, and make it that much harder to get at the useful suggestions and feedback.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

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The UK in Exile
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12023
Founded: Jul 27, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby The UK in Exile » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:37 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Sneaky Bastards wrote:
Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.



Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?


Check your vendettas and personal grudges at the door, please. Avoid inflammatory remarks, accusations, etc - this is an attempt to solve problems, not drag them out. Generalized insults and nastiness offer nothing of value to the discussion, and make it that much harder to get at the useful suggestions and feedback.


its one way get a lock on a thread you've no interest in continuing.
Last edited by The UK in Exile on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58707
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Sneaky Bastards is not Reploid Seductions or Reploid Productions.

Now get back to suggestions everybody.

The Blaatschapen - NS Moderator
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forumer mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Five blank lines will now follow





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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55451
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:40 pm

Wait, they read nominees TG's without notifying?

And no current mods saw fit to object to this?

My suggestion is you all resign.

/end of my outrage since it doesn't personally effect me, but I support others being pissed as all hell.
I was serious about resigning by the way, though obviously that wont happen.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19376
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:41 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:Sneaky Bastards is not Reploid Seductions.

Now get back to suggestions everybody.

The Blaatschapen - NS Moderator


can we get that upped to "Sneaky Bastards is not any Moderator"?

i mean, just to prove all the conspiracy nuts wrong
Last edited by Souseiseki on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

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Dread Lady Nathicana
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 26053
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:42 pm

Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.

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Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19376
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:44 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:/end outrage since it doesn't personally effect me


are you sure about that?
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Franklin Delano Bluth
Senator
 
Posts: 4962
Founded: Apr 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:45 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.


And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?
The American Legion is a neo-fascist terrorist organization, bent on implementing Paulinist Sharia, and with a history of pogroms against organized labor and peace activists and of lynching those who dare resist or defend themselves against its aggression.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55451
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:45 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:/end outrage since it doesn't personally effect me


are you sure about that?


Are you seriously suggesting someone nominated ME as a moderator?
Maybe, MAYBE that happened. Maybe somewhere on these forums, someone is silly enough to do that. We have all sorts.
But that they also they took it seriously enough to begin the vetting process? :p

Yes, i'm sure about the fact it doesn't effect me personally.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

User avatar
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9191
Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:46 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.


And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?


Well absent any proof we don't.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME TG's. MODERATORS READ YOUR TG's WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers Call me Rubi for short or Vonners

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Nailed to the Perch
Minister
 
Posts: 2137
Founded: Dec 07, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nailed to the Perch » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:50 pm

I don't really care whose puppet Sneaky Bastards is. I do care about the ridiculousness of writing off a whole bunch of people saying "this policy is terrible" as "you're all just conspiring against the mods!" I'm really tired of that being the go-to argument every time a whole bunch of people disagree with a moderation policy or decision, because it's paranoid nonsense designed to distract from legitimate criticism.
Useless Eaters wrote:This is a clear attempt to flamenco.

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Dread Lady Nathicana
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 26053
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:53 pm

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

User avatar
Edlichbury
Minister
 
Posts: 3017
Founded: Aug 05, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Edlichbury » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:54 pm

Yet another suggestion: if mods perceive any appeal as just trying "furthering our agenda," perhaps they shouldn't mod anymore. Because that is frankly admitting they perceive this as Mods v Posters.

And I want action on my report I made three fucking weeks ago.

So I have a single suggestion: get rid of DLN.

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Nailed to the Perch
Minister
 
Posts: 2137
Founded: Dec 07, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nailed to the Perch » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:54 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.


I think "stop reading people's TGs without their knowledge or consent" is a pretty concrete suggestion.
Useless Eaters wrote:This is a clear attempt to flamenco.

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Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19376
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:55 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.


to be fair, we probably will be able to get more constructive things done without you going off about our secret ongoing agendas and how we all just have a grudge and hate you and every other mod personally. no offence.

e: which reminds me: j-j-jeez reppy don't agree with me i'm suppose to h-hate you

e2: but seriously thanks for listening and taking it seriously
Last edited by Souseiseki on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Sneaky Bastards
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sneaky Bastards » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:59 pm

Nailed to the Perch wrote:I don't really care whose puppet Sneaky Bastards is. I do care about the ridiculousness of writing off a whole bunch of people saying "this policy is terrible" as "you're all just conspiring against the mods!" I'm really tired of that being the go-to argument every time a whole bunch of people disagree with a moderation policy or decision, because it's paranoid nonsense designed to distract from legitimate criticism.


Except thats what it is: a group of overly butthurt users conspiring against the mods because they didn't get things their way and the staff won't cater to their whims. Calling it out for what it is. Yes, there have been some legitimate concerns raised by some users in here and they offered some good ideas on how things can be done differently, but most of the shit in here has been the butthurt crew trying to find fault with every goddamned thing the moderation staff does out of spite and offering no reasonable idea on how things can be done differently. They're like the goddamned Tea Party of NS.
"Don't underestimate the sneaky sneaky!"
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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9191
Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:00 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.


Actually my belief, or in your case, disbelief, is based on observations of your role as a moderator. You have clearly shown, time and again, that you are not willing to actually be a part of resolving this situation. Don't worry though because you do have company.

If you had an iota of decency you'd resign.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME TG's. MODERATORS READ YOUR TG's WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers Call me Rubi for short or Vonners

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G-Tech Corporation
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 59253
Founded: Feb 03, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Given I've only had issues with the Mods when I was clearly in violation of rules Gameside, they seem to be doing a fairly decent job. As far as the Rules go, nobody's enforcement is perfection, but they're pretty functional as-is. Heaven knows dealing with NSG on a good day in a purely-volunteer position would be trying, and I'm frankly surprised at the ability of most Moderators to make rulings in an impartial and rational manner considering what they have to deal with.

My only critique would be around more dispassionate application of rules like Flaming and Flamebaiting. Clever wording of insults to supposedly attack the argument instead of the poster can venture into some pretty sordid territory without drawing punishment as the consequences can be avoided with some easy word substitution. The forum wouldn't exactly either away if attacking even arguments had to be done in a less hateful manner; civil discourse never suffered from an inability to use derogatory language when addressing rhetoric.
TG if you have questions about RP. If I don't know the answer, I know someone who does.

Quite the unofficial fellow. P2TM Mentor specializing in faction and nation RPs, as well as RPGs.

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Lost heros
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9622
Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:03 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.


And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

Because despite popular belief, the mods aren't ebil, and there is no reason for them to lie right now.

Anyways, I also object to the reading of telegrams without consent from the poster when reviewing a player for modsmanship. Is it really that hard to send a TG saying, "Congratulations, you are being reviewed for a mod position. As a part of the process, we have to review your TGs to check for anything rule-breaking. If you would not like to be considered for a mod position and/or would not like us reviewing your TGs, TG us back within 24 hours. If you do not, we will review your TGs after 24 hours"?
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

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Franklin Delano Bluth
Senator
 
Posts: 4962
Founded: Apr 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Franklin Delano Bluth » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:04 pm

Lost heros wrote:
Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

Because despite popular belief, the mods aren't ebil,

Most of them are actively corrupt and incompetent. There are two, maybe three high-quality ones. The rest are worthless in their official capacity.

and there is no reason for them to lie right now.

There's no incentive for them to deny an astroturfing campaign aimed at deflecting attention from the real issue by attacking the motivations of those who are actually standing up for the best interests of the community we have here?
Last edited by Franklin Delano Bluth on Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The American Legion is a neo-fascist terrorist organization, bent on implementing Paulinist Sharia, and with a history of pogroms against organized labor and peace activists and of lynching those who dare resist or defend themselves against its aggression.

Pro: O'Reilly technical books, crew-length socks, Slide-O-Mix trombone lubricant, Reuben sandwiches
Anti: The eight-line signature limit, lift kits, cancelling Better Off Ted, Chicago Cubs

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Souseiseki
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19376
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:05 pm

Sneaky Bastards wrote:Except thats what it is: a group of overly butthurt users conspiring against the mods because they didn't get things their way and the staff won't cater to their whims. Calling it out for what it is. Yes, there have been some legitimate concerns raised by some users in here and they offered some good ideas on how things can be done differently, but most of the shit in here has been the butthurt crew trying to find fault with every goddamned thing the moderation staff does out of spite and offering no reasonable idea on how things can be done differently. They're like the goddamned Tea Party of NS.


except, it's not, and you labeling a swarthe of posters as just overly butthurt (perhaps you would like to talk about their ongoing agenda and raging mad-on for all things moderation next) does basically fuck all towards creating a good environment for good suggestions and is at worst arguably against the spirit of the thread and at best makes you as bad as them in cluttering this thread with useless shit.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
T <---- THE INFAMOUS T

User avatar
Tsuntion
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1939
Founded: Nov 10, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tsuntion » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:07 pm

Suggestion: DLN step away from this discussion (and others in the forum) for a short time because we the playerbase do not feel able to trust her or hold a constructive conversation with her. I think this is a reasonable request which, if acquiesced to, will help lower the anger levels in this thread.

Suggestion: Let us know whether and when someone is DOS. We need to know whether to report them on sight. I really didn't know you had a long-standing policy against doing this.

If the person in question is DOS, then outing them as a puppet of someone who is DOS has never previously been an issue to my knowledge, and declaring them DOS from now on wouldn't require outing them as a puppet. If the person in question is not DOS, then saying so would not give us any reason to believe them to be or not to be a puppet of someone else.
I'm not a roleplayer, but check these out: The United Defenders League and The Versutian Federation.

The Emerald Dawn wrote:Jumpin' on the SOURCE-TRAIN!

CHOO CHOO MUFUKA! We be ridin' the rails, checkin' the trails, you get nothin' and your argument fails!

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Satosia
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: May 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Satosia » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:09 pm

As a lurker on NSG as well as a couple of other boards, I will add my thoughts and suggestions on this.

When the "Reading TGs" thing was mentioned, I did feel a bit outraged, but I then went and checked the T&Cs. Whilst they are possibly a little short for a website of this size, one thing they do mention is that there isn't really any expectation of privacy in the first place about anything you post to Nationstates.net, whether it's forum posts, RMB messages, Telegrams or whatever. Thinking about it a bit more, I have a theory for why this has grown to such a size - the majority of NS moderation procedure, habits and the like has been developed under the assumption the NS is, first and foremost, a game, with RL stuff being a notably minor part.

Imagine, for a second, that NSG and its offshoot boards didn't exist. That NationStates was a site where roleplaying and NS Gameplay only occured (and whatever you count the GA as). Then, lots of the things people in this thread are complaining about stop being issues. Much of the anger about opaque mod procedures probably won't be there because there will be a lot fewer contentious decisions, and those that are may well mostly be WA legality rulings. Even the idea of reading TGs isn't as bad under the assumption that they're mostly going to be roleplayed or stuff about where the next raids are going to be. It is only once you add the real life element and potential messiness of NSG rulings that all of this becomes problematic.

This does suggest a potential solution - go through standard mod procedures and habits and look at them first with the assumption that NS is purely roleplaying/gameplay, then with the assumption that NS is purely a political discussion forum full of real life stuff. At the very least, use that to revise rules until they hit a balance of application to both - at the moment, the rules are a bit of a hodge-podge of the two conflicting ideas, and I suspect the current problems are a result of that. If you want a more radical suggestion, segregate the rules between the 'game' parts and the RL parts, and make clear where border areas are - should players work under the assumption that TGs are a secure personal messaging service with a good level of privacy, or should the perceive them as an element purely of the game, and as such roleplay that the could be intercepted?

Other than that, I would agree with the calls for greater transparency as to the processes that go on behind the scenes, or at least a central thread where all the disparate little pieces of information that have been revealed of the years is stuck - it may be a bit specific/technical to expand the OSRS with, but a separate "How exactly does Moderation work anyway?" thread might be useful.

Edited for some minor grammar stuff.
Last edited by Satosia on Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Baader-Meinhof Gruppe
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Oct 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Baader-Meinhof Gruppe » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:11 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.


Suggestions ARE bitching. They're complaints about the way things are, thus bitching. If you didn't want to see bitching then you shouldn't have become a mod because mods are supposed to deal with a metric butt tonne of bitching, that's the nature of the job. If this was a one time deal with you I'd let it go but I've seen this from you time and time again. If you don't want to deal with your job then give it up. This is the problem here, mods like you don't give a damn. You don't give a damn about us, you don't give a damn about rules, you don't give a damn about the site, and worst of all you don't give a damn about your job!

/endrant


Though reading through this I think it would be fitting to have tighter controls for bringing a thread back on topic. It's going to increase the number of mods needed and it's going to increase the number of complaints, but if mods could go into a thread where there was a complaint and simply say "Okay back on topic guys" when a complaint is lodged then it could potentially kill a lot of trolling, flaming and thread jacking.

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