The Suggestion Box

[Edlichbury]

Not acting like an ass might be beneficial to your want.

Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.

It's also not the first time Reploid Productions posts with a puppet mocking users in moderation-related threads.

Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?

It's not suspicious at all that suddenly one of your critics is DEATed.

[Souseiseki]

Not acting like an ass might be beneficial to your want.

Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.

It's also not the first time Reploid Productions posts with a puppet mocking users in moderation-related threads.

Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?

Generalized insults and nastiness offer nothing of value to the discussion, and make it that much harder to get at the useful suggestions and feedback.

[The UK in Exile]

Can't help myself. I'm an asshole. Acting like an ass is I what I do best.



Ooooh, good idea. I should make a puppet that's similarly named to me and mock people with it. Not So Sneaky Bitches?

Check your vendettas and personal grudges at the door, please. Avoid inflammatory remarks, accusations, etc - this is an attempt to solve problems, not drag them out. Generalized insults and nastiness offer nothing of value to the discussion, and make it that much harder to get at the useful suggestions and feedback.

its one way get a lock on a thread you've no interest in continuing.

[The Blaatschapen]

Sneaky Bastards is not Reploid Seductions or Reploid Productions.

Now get back to suggestions everybody.

The Blaatschapen - NS Moderator

[Ostroeuropa]

Wait, they read nominees TG's without notifying?

And no current mods saw fit to object to this?

My suggestion is you all resign.

/end of my outrage since it doesn't personally effect me, but I support others being pissed as all hell.
I was serious about resigning by the way, though obviously that wont happen.

[Souseiseki]

Sneaky Bastards is not Reploid Seductions.

Now get back to suggestions everybody.

The Blaatschapen - NS Moderator

can we get that upped to "Sneaky Bastards is not any Moderator"?

i mean, just to prove all the conspiracy nuts wrong

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.

[Souseiseki]

/end outrage since it doesn't personally effect me

are you sure about that?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.

And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

[Ostroeuropa]

/end outrage since it doesn't personally effect me

are you sure about that?

Are you seriously suggesting someone nominated ME as a moderator?
Maybe, MAYBE that happened. Maybe somewhere on these forums, someone is silly enough to do that. We have all sorts.
But that they also they took it seriously enough to begin the vetting process?

Yes, i'm sure about the fact it doesn't effect me personally.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.

And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

Well absent any proof we don't.

[Nailed to the Perch]

I don't really care whose puppet Sneaky Bastards is. I do care about the ridiculousness of writing off a whole bunch of people saying "this policy is terrible" as "you're all just conspiring against the mods!" I'm really tired of that being the go-to argument every time a whole bunch of people disagree with a moderation policy or decision, because it's paranoid nonsense designed to distract from legitimate criticism.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

[Edlichbury]

Yet another suggestion: if mods perceive any appeal as just trying "furthering our agenda," perhaps they shouldn't mod anymore. Because that is frankly admitting they perceive this as Mods v Posters.

And I want action on my report I made three fucking weeks ago.

So I have a single suggestion: get rid of DLN.

[Nailed to the Perch]

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

I think "stop reading people's TGs without their knowledge or consent" is a pretty concrete suggestion.

[Souseiseki]

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

to be fair, we probably will be able to get more constructive things done without you going off about our secret ongoing agendas and how we all just have a grudge and hate you and every other mod personally. no offence.

e: which reminds me: j-j-jeez reppy don't agree with me i'm suppose to h-hate you

e2: but seriously thanks for listening and taking it seriously

[Sneaky Bastards]

I don't really care whose puppet Sneaky Bastards is. I do care about the ridiculousness of writing off a whole bunch of people saying "this policy is terrible" as "you're all just conspiring against the mods!" I'm really tired of that being the go-to argument every time a whole bunch of people disagree with a moderation policy or decision, because it's paranoid nonsense designed to distract from legitimate criticism.

Except thats what it is: a group of overly butthurt users conspiring against the mods because they didn't get things their way and the staff won't cater to their whims. Calling it out for what it is. Yes, there have been some legitimate concerns raised by some users in here and they offered some good ideas on how things can be done differently, but most of the shit in here has been the butthurt crew trying to find fault with every goddamned thing the moderation staff does out of spite and offering no reasonable idea on how things can be done differently. They're like the goddamned Tea Party of NS.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

Actually my belief, or in your case, disbelief, is based on observations of your role as a moderator. You have clearly shown, time and again, that you are not willing to actually be a part of resolving this situation. Don't worry though because you do have company.

If you had an iota of decency you'd resign.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Given I've only had issues with the Mods when I was clearly in violation of rules Gameside, they seem to be doing a fairly decent job. As far as the Rules go, nobody's enforcement is perfection, but they're pretty functional as-is. Heaven knows dealing with NSG on a good day in a purely-volunteer position would be trying, and I'm frankly surprised at the ability of most Moderators to make rulings in an impartial and rational manner considering what they have to deal with.

My only critique would be around more dispassionate application of rules like Flaming and Flamebaiting. Clever wording of insults to supposedly attack the argument instead of the poster can venture into some pretty sordid territory without drawing punishment as the consequences can be avoided with some easy word substitution. The forum wouldn't exactly either away if attacking even arguments had to be done in a less hateful manner; civil discourse never suffered from an inability to use derogatory language when addressing rhetoric.

[Lost heros]

Sneaky B is not, nor have they ever been, a mod or a mod puppet.

And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

Because despite popular belief, the mods aren't ebil, and there is no reason for them to lie right now.

Anyways, I also object to the reading of telegrams without consent from the poster when reviewing a player for modsmanship. Is it really that hard to send a TG saying, "Congratulations, you are being reviewed for a mod position. As a part of the process, we have to review your TGs to check for anything rule-breaking. If you would not like to be considered for a mod position and/or would not like us reviewing your TGs, TG us back within 24 hours. If you do not, we will review your TGs after 24 hours"?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

And why should we believe you, after everything else you guys have pulled?

Because despite popular belief, the mods aren't ebil,

Most of them are actively corrupt and incompetent. There are two, maybe three high-quality ones. The rest are worthless in their official capacity.

and there is no reason for them to lie right now.

There's no incentive for them to deny an astroturfing campaign aimed at deflecting attention from the real issue by attacking the motivations of those who are actually standing up for the best interests of the community we have here?

[Souseiseki]

Except thats what it is: a group of overly butthurt users conspiring against the mods because they didn't get things their way and the staff won't cater to their whims. Calling it out for what it is. Yes, there have been some legitimate concerns raised by some users in here and they offered some good ideas on how things can be done differently, but most of the shit in here has been the butthurt crew trying to find fault with every goddamned thing the moderation staff does out of spite and offering no reasonable idea on how things can be done differently. They're like the goddamned Tea Party of NS.

except, it's not, and you labeling a swarthe of posters as just overly butthurt (perhaps you would like to talk about their ongoing agenda and raging mad-on for all things moderation next) does basically fuck all towards creating a good environment for good suggestions and is at worst arguably against the spirit of the thread and at best makes you as bad as them in cluttering this thread with useless shit.

[Tsuntion]

Suggestion: DLN step away from this discussion (and others in the forum) for a short time because we the playerbase do not feel able to trust her or hold a constructive conversation with her. I think this is a reasonable request which, if acquiesced to, will help lower the anger levels in this thread.

Suggestion: Let us know whether and when someone is DOS. We need to know whether to report them on sight. I really didn't know you had a long-standing policy against doing this.

If the person in question is DOS, then outing them as a puppet of someone who is DOS has never previously been an issue to my knowledge, and declaring them DOS from now on wouldn't require outing them as a puppet. If the person in question is not DOS, then saying so would not give us any reason to believe them to be or not to be a puppet of someone else.

[Satosia]

As a lurker on NSG as well as a couple of other boards, I will add my thoughts and suggestions on this.

When the "Reading TGs" thing was mentioned, I did feel a bit outraged, but I then went and checked the T&Cs. Whilst they are possibly a little short for a website of this size, one thing they do mention is that there isn't really any expectation of privacy in the first place about anything you post to Nationstates.net, whether it's forum posts, RMB messages, Telegrams or whatever. Thinking about it a bit more, I have a theory for why this has grown to such a size - the majority of NS moderation procedure, habits and the like has been developed under the assumption the NS is, first and foremost, a game, with RL stuff being a notably minor part.

Imagine, for a second, that NSG and its offshoot boards didn't exist. That NationStates was a site where roleplaying and NS Gameplay only occured (and whatever you count the GA as). Then, lots of the things people in this thread are complaining about stop being issues. Much of the anger about opaque mod procedures probably won't be there because there will be a lot fewer contentious decisions, and those that are may well mostly be WA legality rulings. Even the idea of reading TGs isn't as bad under the assumption that they're mostly going to be roleplayed or stuff about where the next raids are going to be. It is only once you add the real life element and potential messiness of NSG rulings that all of this becomes problematic.

This does suggest a potential solution - go through standard mod procedures and habits and look at them first with the assumption that NS is purely roleplaying/gameplay, then with the assumption that NS is purely a political discussion forum full of real life stuff. At the very least, use that to revise rules until they hit a balance of application to both - at the moment, the rules are a bit of a hodge-podge of the two conflicting ideas, and I suspect the current problems are a result of that. If you want a more radical suggestion, segregate the rules between the 'game' parts and the RL parts, and make clear where border areas are - should players work under the assumption that TGs are a secure personal messaging service with a good level of privacy, or should the perceive them as an element purely of the game, and as such roleplay that the could be intercepted?

Other than that, I would agree with the calls for greater transparency as to the processes that go on behind the scenes, or at least a central thread where all the disparate little pieces of information that have been revealed of the years is stuck - it may be a bit specific/technical to expand the OSRS with, but a separate "How exactly does Moderation work anyway?" thread might be useful.

Edited for some minor grammar stuff.

[Baader-Meinhof Gruppe]

You can choose to believe, or not believe - that doesn't affect the truth of the matter. If you're only here to continue to push agendas, there's little point in discussing anything with you. Which was why this thread was supposed to have been for SUGGESTIONS only, and not continued bitchfesting. So much for that. As such, my part in this discussion is over.

Suggestions ARE bitching. They're complaints about the way things are, thus bitching. If you didn't want to see bitching then you shouldn't have become a mod because mods are supposed to deal with a metric butt tonne of bitching, that's the nature of the job. If this was a one time deal with you I'd let it go but I've seen this from you time and time again. If you don't want to deal with your job then give it up. This is the problem here, mods like you don't give a damn. You don't give a damn about us, you don't give a damn about rules, you don't give a damn about the site, and worst of all you don't give a damn about your job!

/endrant


Though reading through this I think it would be fitting to have tighter controls for bringing a thread back on topic. It's going to increase the number of mods needed and it's going to increase the number of complaints, but if mods could go into a thread where there was a complaint and simply say "Okay back on topic guys" when a complaint is lodged then it could potentially kill a lot of trolling, flaming and thread jacking.