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[Q/D] Forum Cleanup

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Dread Lady Nathicana
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[Q/D] Forum Cleanup

Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:50 pm

Back in the day, there was the option to remove shitposting sorts of threads by moderators. No idea how y'all do things these days, but would it be possible to perhaps make an effort to clean up the Nationstates forum (and any others that need it) a bit when there are threads that don't belong, are taking up space, or otherwise making for a distracting clutter of things?

Not sure how others feel about it, but given we have the option to discuss those sorts of things, here we go. Do others find it distracting to have out of place/crap threads/dross cluttering up the forum, or is it just me being a pedantic pain in the ass?

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Shikinami Asuka Langley
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Postby Shikinami Asuka Langley » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:52 pm

I'd rather have a bit of clutter than mods removing things they deem cluttering.

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Dread Lady Nathicana
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Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:55 pm

Shikinami Asuka Langley wrote:I'd rather have a bit of clutter than mods removing things they deem cluttering.

Meaning the locked threads - that's the stuff I'm talking about, not just randomly removing with no reason. Things reported in the removal threads, etc.

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Shikinami Asuka Langley
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Postby Shikinami Asuka Langley » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:
Shikinami Asuka Langley wrote:I'd rather have a bit of clutter than mods removing things they deem cluttering.

Meaning the locked threads - that's the stuff I'm talking about, not just randomly removing with no reason. Things reported in the removal threads, etc.

I still maintain the stance.

Just because a thread has been locked doesn't mean it has no value. Threads can be locked for a variety of reasons, as I'm sure you know, from insufficient OPs to a flame war erupting. However, that doesn't say anything about the overall content of the thread. Sometimes there are even locked threads worth reading. ;)

Regardless, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I wouldn't mind if they started removing really old/inactive or locked threads even if I'd rather they didn't unless absolutely necessary.

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Lockdownn
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Postby Lockdownn » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:22 pm

Shikinami Asuka Langley wrote:
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Meaning the locked threads - that's the stuff I'm talking about, not just randomly removing with no reason. Things reported in the removal threads, etc.

I still maintain the stance.

Just because a thread has been locked doesn't mean it has no value. Threads can be locked for a variety of reasons, as I'm sure you know, from insufficient OPs to a flame war erupting. However, that doesn't say anything about the overall content of the thread. Sometimes there are even locked threads worth reading. ;)

Regardless, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I wouldn't mind if they started removing really old/inactive or locked threads even if I'd rather they didn't unless absolutely necessary.

I'm pretty sure threads like this have little to no need to be in that sub-forum.

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Dread Lady Nathicana
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Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:42 pm

Once more ... a simple lock does not equate to what I'm referring to. Lockdown nailed it right there - the shitposting. The wasted space bits. The stuff that never belonged, and has no worth and thus, no point to continue showing up and taking up space til the end of time there. Perhaps a junk spot to move some of those to that gets cleaned out every week or so, trimmed as Forum 7 does - or did, unsure anymore. So if there happens to be content there that the OP needs, they have time to retrieve it, and post it in the right place. And the stuff that doesn't, and doesn't require movement to the evidence locker, stops taking up space.

Just a thought, anyways. There's been so much junk over the years, there are probably whole pages worth of things that could without loss to the player base at all, be removed. *shrugs*

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Chrinthanium
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Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Lockdownn wrote:
Shikinami Asuka Langley wrote:I still maintain the stance.

Just because a thread has been locked doesn't mean it has no value. Threads can be locked for a variety of reasons, as I'm sure you know, from insufficient OPs to a flame war erupting. However, that doesn't say anything about the overall content of the thread. Sometimes there are even locked threads worth reading. ;)

Regardless, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. I wouldn't mind if they started removing really old/inactive or locked threads even if I'd rather they didn't unless absolutely necessary.

I'm pretty sure threads like this have little to no need to be in that sub-forum.

That thread is locked, though. No one can post in it. The chiding by OT is well-documented and visible for others to see. I see no reason to remove it. The fact is, it sets a precedent if the mods can singlehandedly remove an entire thread they deem 'unnecessary.' Mods already get enough crap about doing the things they're supposed to do. No reason I can think of to see scores of threads in Moderation decrying how X player's thread was summarily removed by Y moderator/administrator because Y mod/admin believed it to be 'unnecessary' or 'useless.'

Everyone seems to want more transparency from the Mods/Admins... I can't see anything less transparent than a thread being removed on the opinion of a moderator/administrator.

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Postby Free Republics » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Personally, I'd prefer to see threads that are posted in the wrong forum moved to the appropriate place, even if they're still lock-worthy. If NS Sports got people trying to start NSG threads with insufficient IPs about RL sports on a regular basis instead of merely once every few months, the search function would be practically unusable or would unnecessarily require extra keywords to find the historical tournaments you're looking for. I get why mods don't do this though because a lock is less work than a move and a lock.

I think the best solution to stop off-topic spam in the NS sub-forum is probably to rename it to something more descriptive of the kinds of posts that actually belong in there. A new name like "National Roleplay" would probably stop the gameplay, WA and issue threads that have always plagued that subforum.
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Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Free Republics wrote:Personally, I'd prefer to see threads that are posted in the wrong forum moved to the appropriate place, even if they're still lock-worthy. If NS Sports got people trying to start NSG threads with insufficient IPs about RL sports on a regular basis instead of merely once every few months, the search function would be practically unusable or would unnecessarily require extra keywords to find the historical tournaments you're looking for. I get why mods don't do this though because a lock is less work than a move and a lock.

I think the best solution to stop off-topic spam in the NS sub-forum is probably to rename it to something more descriptive of the kinds of posts that actually belong in there. A new name like "National Roleplay" would probably stop the gameplay, WA and issue threads that have always plagued that subforum.

If you see a thread that is in the wrong forum, you can post a message here with a link and a moderator or admin will get around to moving it.

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Once more ... a simple lock does not equate to what I'm referring to. Lockdown nailed it right there - the shitposting. The wasted space bits. The stuff that never belonged, and has no worth and thus, no point to continue showing up and taking up space til the end of time there. Perhaps a junk spot to move some of those to that gets cleaned out every week or so, trimmed as Forum 7 does - or did, unsure anymore. So if there happens to be content there that the OP needs, they have time to retrieve it, and post it in the right place. And the stuff that doesn't, and doesn't require movement to the evidence locker, stops taking up space.

Just a thought, anyways. There's been so much junk over the years, there are probably whole pages worth of things that could without loss to the player base at all, be removed. *shrugs*

Eh, there's a problem, though. You know if you post and then delete it yourself (if you can do that before someone else posts after you) that your post count drops by that one post? Now imagine if hundreds of users suddenly found themselves short a few hundred posts? There would be much weeping and gnashing of teeth and moderation forum threads crying foul.

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Lockdownn
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Postby Lockdownn » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:27 pm

Chrinthanium wrote:
Lockdownn wrote:I'm pretty sure threads like this have little to no need to be in that sub-forum.

That thread is locked, though. No one can post in it. The chiding by OT is well-documented and visible for others to see. I see no reason to remove it. The fact is, it sets a precedent if the mods can singlehandedly remove an entire thread they deem 'unnecessary.' Mods already get enough crap about doing the things they're supposed to do. No reason I can think of to see scores of threads in Moderation decrying how X player's thread was summarily removed by Y moderator/administrator because Y mod/admin believed it to be 'unnecessary' or 'useless.'

Everyone seems to want more transparency from the Mods/Admins... I can't see anything less transparent than a thread being removed on the opinion of a moderator/administrator.

However, if it's taking up space, why leave it? Should there not be say an archive/basket for such threads that clutter slow-moving forums?

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Postby The Federation of Kendor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:46 pm

Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Once more ... a simple lock does not equate to what I'm referring to. Lockdown nailed it right there - the shitposting. The wasted space bits. The stuff that never belonged, and has no worth and thus, no point to continue showing up and taking up space til the end of time there. Perhaps a junk spot to move some of those to that gets cleaned out every week or so, trimmed as Forum 7 does - or did, unsure anymore. So if there happens to be content there that the OP needs, they have time to retrieve it, and post it in the right place. And the stuff that doesn't, and doesn't require movement to the evidence locker, stops taking up space.

Just a thought, anyways. There's been so much junk over the years, there are probably whole pages worth of things that could without loss to the player base at all, be removed. *shrugs*

Then we should preserve F7 threads by having them "autopruned" to the evidence locker or some other specialized place that can't be accessed by normal players, but will keep F7 threads from being destroyed and forgotten. Also, how can we upgrade this forum to prevent the need for removing threads. I'm okay with the page limit, but thread removal bothers me
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Chrinthanium
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Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:20 pm

Lockdownn wrote:
Chrinthanium wrote:That thread is locked, though. No one can post in it. The chiding by OT is well-documented and visible for others to see. I see no reason to remove it. The fact is, it sets a precedent if the mods can singlehandedly remove an entire thread they deem 'unnecessary.' Mods already get enough crap about doing the things they're supposed to do. No reason I can think of to see scores of threads in Moderation decrying how X player's thread was summarily removed by Y moderator/administrator because Y mod/admin believed it to be 'unnecessary' or 'useless.'

Everyone seems to want more transparency from the Mods/Admins... I can't see anything less transparent than a thread being removed on the opinion of a moderator/administrator.

However, if it's taking up space, why leave it? Should there not be say an archive/basket for such threads that clutter slow-moving forums?

Why remove it if it is locked already? If you want to keep track of threads, you can subscribe to them. If you post in a thread, you can click "View My Posts" which will bring up a listing of all the threads you've posted in. The older ones will drop to the bottom of the list as newer ones take their place. No clutter. I don't understand how the clutter is causing anyone a problem... outside of Max who pays for the hosting and, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't seem to really care about it.

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Postby Kyrusia » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:00 pm

Free Republics wrote:Personally, I'd prefer to see threads that are posted in the wrong forum moved to the appropriate place, even if they're still lock-worthy.
If it's lock-worthy, it's ultimately irrelevant as to where it is insofar as "inappropriate or appropriate" board placement is concerned; its going to sink, regardless. That being said, if, say, a thread gets locked in Board A and moved to Board B, all you've really done is given the users of Board B the same sort of clutter that users of Board A might be displeased with; sometimes it still gets moved, regardless, but if it's just so woefully not going to work in either board, it often just gets locked and left to sink. If it's lock-worthy, but not obscene, spammy, etc. enough to warrant an immediate relocation to the Evidence Locker, locking it and moving it to a hidden locale doesn't readily demonstrate to the player that there is a problem and what the problem is. VoMing is possible, yes, but not every member of the staff is a Game Moderator, meaning anytime a Forum Mod ends-up doing simple board maintenance, they'd need to contact a Game Mod to do it for them.

I could see the argument for a public archive of misplaced, lock-worthy threads as a kindness to the player base, but that can also readily make record keeping cumbersome (not impossible, just cumbersome) when some extraneous circumstance (obscene material, for example) already doesn't warrant a relocation to the Locker. Furthermore, I don't foresee an entirely new board being made just for that when locked threads will simply sink into oblivion on the boards they're locked on to begin with.

Free Republics wrote:I think the best solution to stop off-topic spam in the NS sub-forum is probably to rename it to something more descriptive of the kinds of posts that actually belong in there. A new name like "National Roleplay" would probably stop the gameplay, WA and issue threads that have always plagued that subforum.
This has been brought up before. It was briefly discussed when the "Diplomacy" category was re-named to "National & International Roleplaying"; unfortunately, the division between the two boards isn't necessarily as clear-cut as some people think. There are things of potential international merit that get posted in NS, just as there are roleplays that take place entirely in a single nation and may not be just "WAAGH! WAR!" in II. It's been that way for quite some time.

If history has shown us anything, renaming it will make some people happy, displease others, and there will still be misplaced threads because a thread OP chose not to read a sticky, read a board description, take a glance at the type of threads there, or ask a Mod or Mentor for assistance.

Lockdownn wrote:I'm pretty sure threads like this have little to no need to be in that sub-forum.
They don't, that is quite true. But see above as to why it is better for them simply to be locked and allowed to sink with a message visible to the OP.

Also, I don't foresee an auto-prune feature being enabled on a roleplaying board, much the same way I don't see it being disabled on F7 (a board largely dedicated to high-frequency thread postings - hence why auto-prune is enabled and post-counting there is disabled).
Last edited by Kyrusia on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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