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by Ballotonia » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:29 am
by The Northern Light » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:14 am
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by Valentine Z » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:29 am
The Northern Light wrote:b) Change packs so that their contents are determined when the pack is created (i.e., when the nation answered the issue that created the pack), and not when the pack is opened. This would make pull events a lot less effective, as people would no longer be able to stockpile essentially arbitrary numbers of packs, in order to open them while a specific card is on auction. Additionally, participating in a pull event would require answering issues (and potentially creating new nations to get more issues) on top of opening packs, making the whole process a lot more tedious.
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by Refuge Isle » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:20 am
The Northern Light wrote:1) The bidding mechanic overwhelmingly favors players with big card farms, who are best positioned to freely create arbitrary amounts of copies of any card they want, with minimal risk.
2) Price correction generally does not work. It has happened for some cards (the top few epics), but high-value legendaries that are being spawned in copious amounts remain just as expensive as before. Even when the price of a card does drop, having vast amounts of copies of the, now lower-valued, card still results in deck value increases. What's even worse is that the many lower-valued copies tend to concentrate in the decks of very few players, who are then free to drive the price up to its previous levels. Finally, in certain cases where a pull event is organized to attack the value of a card, players that own multiple copies of the card can "block" the spawning of new copies by simply placing some random common card on the market at the same time.
3) As the numerous transfers of large amounts of bank show, this mechanic is not effective against bank transfers.
The Northern Light wrote:a) This is what I had proposed in my original post: Remove the bid mechanic, and change the system so that cards that are on auction simply have higher odds of being spawned in packs that open during the auction, independently of the number of bids placed on the card. The odds could be set so that about 1 copy would spawn for every 1000 packs opened---this number is certainly not set in stone, it's simply my own crude estimate of the spawn rate we had in regularly-attended pull events before the bid mechanic was discovered. Other factors that currently affect spawn rate (people suspect that the auction price is one of them) can remain in place.
The Northern Light wrote:b) Change packs so that their contents are determined when the pack is created (i.e., when the nation answered the issue that created the pack), and not when the pack is opened. This would make pull events a lot less effective, as people would no longer be able to stockpile essentially arbitrary numbers of packs, in order to open them while a specific card is on auction. Additionally, participating in a pull event would require answering issues (and potentially creating new nations to get more issues) on top of opening packs, making the whole process a lot more tedious.
by Evrigenis » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:42 am
The Northern Light wrote:b) Change packs so that their contents are determined when the pack is created (i.e., when the nation answered the issue that created the pack), and not when the pack is opened. This would make pull events a lot less effective, as people would no longer be able to stockpile essentially arbitrary numbers of packs, in order to open them while a specific card is on auction. Additionally, participating in a pull event would require answering issues (and potentially creating new nations to get more issues) on top of opening packs, making the whole process a lot more tedious.
by Vylixan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:25 am
by The Northern Light » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:36 am
Refuge Isle wrote:I enjoy this suggestion, and it seems like it would return pull events to how we thought they worked originally. All of that seemed reasonable and generally fun.
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by Refuge Isle » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:12 am
The topic has drifted slightly from what Ransium's complaint originally was to reflect the ways in which the system has been used since it was posted. Namely, the card raid and four-ish players duplicating high value legendaries to inflate their decks to silly levels. The degree to which the ALS spawns new cards, at this time, largely reflects bid rate, pack open rate, and potentially the value at which the card is traded (although I suspect not).Evrigenis wrote:IHowever, I think I may be able to add some nuance to the conversation now. My opinion on TCALS is a bit more complex than the topic name.
Evrigenis wrote:It would create an insurmountable gap between those who have had the chance to play earlier and benefit from the “old system” and those who came after.
Evrigenis wrote:Since the event was meant to be a temporary joke, the release of Season 1 cards had overpowered features, like buying packs with bank. It was then closed. When it was taken more seriously than originally intended, the community lobbied for its reopening. The moderators agreed, and it was re-released in its current, nerfed form.
Evrigenis wrote:1) implement a nerfed version of the current system with bidding increasing pull probability
Evrigenis wrote:2) reset the MV to JV and
Evrigenis wrote:3) add a new census stat: Gallery Size. 1) would allow new farmers to continue to benefit from pull events, while the probability boost could decrease at an increasing rate as a function of number of bids (if that’s unclear, think about the graph of 1/x). 2) lets the free market reign as we see which prices people actually trade at. 3) incentivizes other forms of play, and helps people remember that DV is not the end-all-and-be-all of this game (I personally think the object is to have fun and be a good community member, but that’s not quantifiable for a stat XD).
by Noahs Second Country » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:43 am
If one of the problems we're dealing with is the inflated MV of some players caused by pulling tons of legendaries. Why don't we try to fix that as well?
Here is a random idea.
At the moment the DV is determined by just adding all the MV of all the cards a nation has.
What if we halved the counted MV for every extra card a nation has until the amount per card reaches JV.
Even if you inflate the card value the maximum of DV you can get out of that legendary card will not grow much bigger then twice the amount of DV.
by Noahs Second Country » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:39 am
If the cards game is about collecting MV/DV, and we're complaining about the unfairness the current system creates, changing the rules without giving players an equal start will only cement existing inequalities. Keeping TCALS allows everyone to challenge those inequalities in the same way, with the same techniques with which they were created. Potentially, someone can use TCALS to create their own monopoly on a high MV card they've boosted or will boost. Hence, fairness is preserved better than by changing TCALS without giving players an equal start.
Someone without a large farming setup wouldn't be able to get these high MV cards in the first place: the exploit favouring Big Farma is a red herring. A small(er) farmer can abuse the system just as well by creating multiple copies of a card they can afford.
If the cards game is about collecting MV/DV, and we're not complaining about the unfairness... Then what are we complaining about? Highly volatile decks crashing? Others having the same opportunities, playing by the same rules, now that they are publicly known?
by Aclion » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:26 pm
Ballotonia wrote:*bump*
Reason for putting this thread back to the top is that it is likely that in the coming few weeks changes will be made in response to this thread. If you have any comments to make, especially in light of more recent events, this is your last call to add your opinion.
Ballotonia
by Vylixan » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:47 am
Noahs Second Country wrote:If one of the problems we're dealing with is the inflated MV of some players caused by pulling tons of legendaries. Why don't we try to fix that as well?
Here is a random idea.
At the moment the DV is determined by just adding all the MV of all the cards a nation has.
What if we halved the counted MV for every extra card a nation has until the amount per card reaches JV.
Even if you inflate the card value the maximum of DV you can get out of that legendary card will not grow much bigger then twice the amount of DV.
I'll copy paste my response in the discord here:
So basically you want playing for MV to be a game of randomly inflating commons, from what I'm seeing here? The current system works fine, imo. Big farmers buying legendary cards en masse redistributes their wealth throughout the market. Oftentimes you'll note that smaller collections are basically funded by the selling of 1 or 2 cards.
(opinions on TCALS inbound, give me a sec)
by Noahs Second Country » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:29 am
by Honeydewistania » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:38 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Cardegarth the Collector » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:32 pm
by HumanSanity » Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:04 pm
Sandaoguo wrote:HS is worth 100 times more than the insubstantial (to borderline non-existent) benefits the TNP-TSP “alliance” has created over the last several years.
by 9003 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:33 am
by Nick Danger » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:56 am
by HumanSanity » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:37 pm
Nick Danger wrote:Too many new players get disgusted and abandon the game.
Sandaoguo wrote:HS is worth 100 times more than the insubstantial (to borderline non-existent) benefits the TNP-TSP “alliance” has created over the last several years.
by Nick Danger » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:24 pm
HumanSanity wrote:Nick Danger wrote:Too many new players get disgusted and abandon the game.
I don't get why TCALS is the cause of new players abandoning the game in and of itself.
In order to get heisted on a transfer, you have to know that you should be doing a transfer, which means you have to have thought about transfer security. There's also a lot of guides posted to how to avoid heisting at this point.
I hate getting heisted as much as anyone else but I think it's created an interesting game dynamic.
by Ransium » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:12 am
by Benevolent 1 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:08 am
by Noahs Second Country » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:28 am
Benevolent 1 wrote:Is there a way to mitigate the damage done by the the players which have overly abused TCALS? I mean, can these duplicate cards taken by the worst offenders be removed and placed back into the guf for redistribution? In doing so, it may dis-incentivize the next selfish manifestation from players prone to such behaviours.
by Riemstagrad » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:32 pm
Ransium wrote:-snip-
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