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NationStates Issues **SPOILER ALERT**

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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Immund
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Oct 04, 2017
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Immund » Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:28 am

SherpDaWerp wrote:
#1478: Two Sides of a Coin [The Ankhalic Vaspriot; ed: Verdant Haven]

The Issue
Following the abolition of the nation's smallest denomination coin, the millions of unreleased pennies already minted with the next year's date were ordered to be melted down. Since then, a few of these pennies have periodically emerged in the collector market, where they command a tremendous price, having apparently been smuggled out of the mint by an unknown employee.

The Debate
1. "Unissued coins are government property, and the mere act of possessing them is a crime!" proclaims mint superintendent Nellie Deal, binder in hand. "Those coins should be seized for destruction in compliance with the original order, and the full force of law should be brought against everybody involved in this blatant criminal enterprise." Opening the binder to show a listing of auction records, she points to a particular sale. "I think I know where to start."

2. ???

3. Museum donor Isaiah Swift-Longboard makes his way to your desk, carrying a long box. "Seize the coins and prosecute the criminals, yes, but destroying the few remaining pennies would make no cents! These coins survived against the odds, and should be placed in museums alongside @@NAME@@'s other numismatic artifacts." He opens the box to reveal a dozen slight variants of a similar coin, encapsulated in plastic slabs and differing only by date. "Aren't they so interesting?"

4. "You can't just take these away!" howls shoe designer and coin collector Farouk Whiteman, clutching a penny in his hand. "A functionary at the local licensing office put an approval stamp on the auctioneer's filing paperwork, so that means the government approved the sale. I had no idea it was stolen!" Sliding a grainy photocopy of the alleged document across the table, he continues. "See this? If you go back on your word and seize it now, that would be like a second theft!"


I checked internal numbers, option 2 wasn't presented to me. Signs point to it being an in-edit doppelganger. "Whiteman" is similar to "Wittman", from the draft, but I suspect it might still be random. Interesting to see "@@name@@'s" making an appearance; it's fallen out of fashion recently.


I also received 1478, can confirm I also do not have second option. In addition, I believe I should be entirely ineligible for this issue as my nation mandates usage of digital currency, there are and have been no physical coins. My nation does not have a mint.

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Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:38 am

Valentine’s Changelog 038

Los go gnębi jak cholera, raz, dwa, trzy. ♪

- Added 11 issues.
- More changes to past issues.

Changes made to the threads can be seen here.

I need to re-do another round of dumb quote conversion because I forgot to do one for the opening smart single quotes. These: ‘

This I will do next time.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

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Eshialand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 700
Founded: Apr 03, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Eshialand » Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:39 pm

Eshialand wrote:I found this one... on this nation, actually.
#1487: O Fortuna! [Daarwyrth; ed: Pogaria]

The Issue:
JACKPOT! It seemed impossible, it seemed unlikely, it seemed as if the odds would not favour you. Yet you, @@LEADER@@, are the lucky winner of a major cash prize from last night’s national lottery, thanks to that lottery ticket your mother had gifted you for Maxxmas. Yet before you can even celebrate, you realize that your good fortune has made national headlines.

The Debate:
1. “@@LEADER@@ Wins Lottery: A Directed Stroke of Luck?” quotes Lottery Commissioner Otohime Jones, reading a newspaper headline with a heavy sigh. “The optics of this are just too damning. We’re being absolutely overwhelmed with angry and accusatory complaints from every imaginable corner! Some of our employees have even been followed home by mobs carrying literal torches and pitchforks! Who even does that these days? I’m sorry, @@LEADER@@, but you’ll have to let us declare this drawing void so that we can pick a new winning ticket. And from now on, government officials shouldn’t be allowed to buy lottery tickets.”

2. “No, no, just wait a second,” says your Chief of Staff, polishing up the mirror that reflects your image. “The optics are bad, but we can turn this into a significant popularity boost. Accept the prize with all due honours and fanfare, but declare that the entire sum will be donated to charity. The Wagger Dog Shelter, the Bryce Waine Orphanage, or heck, even the Out of Luck Gambler’s Rehab Centre — take your pick! Just practice smiling through pain, and relinquishing your grip on the cheque beforehand. And hey, I’m pretty sure charitable contributions are tax deductible, which means that you could still profit if you were willing to engage in a little creative accountancy.”

3. “Did mommy dear put your name on the lottery ticket? No? Good!” exclaims your brother while unceremoniously snatching the fortuitous piece of paper from your hand. “Just say that the ticket was mine, and all you’ll have to deal with is a few angry stares for a while. You’ve dealt with worse! This way, our family will be happy, all thanks to the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42. But don’t worry, if you ever lose your office, your dear, old brother will take care of you...”

4. One of your aides tackles your brother, liberating your luck from his grip. “Why not just do what any other @@DEMONYM@@ would do?” she asks with a sincere smile, handing you the slightly battered ticket. “Celebrate! Be happy! Go wild! I’ve seen you working day-in and day-out for the good of the people. This is your reward — go collect the prize, and start living the high life!”

I reckon Otohime Jones is a random name.

Just got this one again on Capital North, can confirm Otohime Jones was a @@RANDOMNAME@@. (I got Emily Jackson this time around.)
Warden of The Order of the Grey Wardens since February 10th, 2021.
I allegedly did well in these tournaments:
1st: Baptism of Fire 75, World Junior Hockey Championship 17
2nd: World Cup of Masters 4, Elephant Chess Cup 2
3rd: Elephant Chess Cup 1
4th:
Quarterfinalist: Jenna Raven Cup 1, Quidditch World Cup 11, 5th International Cup of 7ball, International Baseball Slam 15
...I'll always be your friend!

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Paffnia
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: Nov 03, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Paffnia » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:01 am

Starting at #1477 in the table of contents, the links to each issue go to the wrong page of the thread.
Former Delegate of 10000 Islands
Knight of TITO
Denes nad Makedonija


WA Ambassador: Joakim Metyhap
Paffniac Factbook
Author, SC #93: Commend The Featured Region Followers
Commended by SC #276

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Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am

Paffnia wrote:Starting at #1477 in the table of contents, the links to each issue go to the wrong page of the thread.

Ahhhh, that is back to haunt me. It was supposed to point to the page after that, yes. start=75 instead of start=50.

Thanks for the heads-up, will fix this along with replacing the remaining smart quotes. ❤️


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

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Terrabod
Envoy
 
Posts: 274
Founded: Jan 10, 2018
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Terrabod » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:00 pm

Not sure if this is helpful, but for #1477 there should be a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ in the description, two @@NAME@@s (one in Option1, one in Option 3)... and the speaker's name in Option 1 is definitely a @@RANDOMNAME@@.
My Issues
#1477
Cultural Organiser
of Forest
- P L E A S ES T A N DB Y -
---------------------

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 am

My puppet Rocain Reaper has received issue #72 in a way that resolves several open questions about this issue. It received option 3 of the issue, but not option 2. Option 3 is a doppelganger of option 2, not of option 4, as the issue spoiler suggests. Here is the text of option 3, with proper names not altered, but with differences from option 2 underlined.

“Mandatory exercise! Get out! I don’t have the time!” snorts nationally renowned TV chef Rosalina Dodinas. “How about banning those greasy fast food joints and drive-thrus? I mean, seriously, if you can’t get on your stupid bike and go get a meal, how sad is that? Ban fast food and make junk food more expensive—that way, people will have to think about whether they really want to spend ten @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ on a snack cake.”

The underlined difference makes it clear that option 2 is for nations with cars, and option 3 is for nations which have banned them (such as Rocain Reaper).

As a side note, Rocain Reaper has not banned computers, and still received option 4. There is no sign I've seen that option 4 is not intended for all nations.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9559
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:43 am

...Nations without cars still have drive-thrus?

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Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:50 am

Trotterdam wrote:...Nations without cars still have drive-thrus?

Horse-carriage, perhaps! Or mobility scooters.


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

User avatar
Jutsa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5336
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Jutsa » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:29 pm

Here in Jutsa we prefer drive-thru by unicycle. Usually this involves driving directly through the restaurant.

It's a great deal of entertainment despite its surprisingly high risk of killing someone.

"Do you have anything helpful to add?" Nope. :)

But I might as well leave constructive feedback while I'm here: you are doing an amazing job, Val. :D
Here is a list containing a bunch of factbooks I created that are Got Issues? related.
>List of issue ideas
>List of missing issues/options
>List of accepted issues~
^ I know this is hardly a flashy signature, but at least I have one now.

User avatar
Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:03 am

Jutsa wrote:Here in Jutsa we prefer drive-thru by unicycle. Usually this involves driving directly through the restaurant.

It's a great deal of entertainment despite its surprisingly high risk of killing someone.

"Do you have anything helpful to add?" Nope. :)

But I might as well leave constructive feedback while I'm here: you are doing an amazing job, Val. :D

Why, thank you! ♥ And thank you for your contributions - both with issues and maintaining this thread - too!


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

User avatar
Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:21 am

Valentine’s Changelog 039

It's up to you to continue the Redfield lineage.

- Fixed some issues / added options for older issues.
- Fixed the later issues in the sections that leads to the wrong page.
- Finished changing the smart quotes to dumb quotes. That includes single quotes.
- Added a personal spoiler at the end for own usage - contains links for OP (whoever will be doing after me in the future) to jump straight to each forum post, and in editing mode.

Changes made to the threads can be seen here. For this time, so sorry the smaller changes are lumped in with the smart -> dumb quote changes. ^^;


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

User avatar
Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:36 pm

The spoiler for issue #279 is no longer correct (if, in fact, it ever was correct). To quickly summarize the problem, option 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the spoiler are actually options 1, 2, 4 and 5. Option 3 of the issue is unknown. Whether the spoiler is correct in showing two options with identical text (4 and 5) is unknown, but if the second one exists, it must be number 6, not number 5.

My puppet Cain BZ R09Ty v0 got this issue with a choice between options 1, 2, 4 and 5. The texts of 2, 4 and 5 were identical to the spoiled texts of options 2, 3 and 4. I have no information of option 3, but I would guess it is probably a clone of either option 2 or 4, though it could be something completely new. I suspect there is no option 6, but have no way of ruling it out.

In case this description is too confusing to deal with, here is the entirety of the issue. I've changed the option numbers from API-style to the regular style, and replaced anything associated with this particular nation with the appropriate macro.

A major contamination of @@NAME@@’s Citizen Creation Vats has caused millions of your newest citizens to be ‘born’ with severe mental illnesses. An emergency meeting of your top Ministers has been called to decide what to do about the issue.

OPTION id="1":
“It’s obvious what must be done,” says Zangbu Waialiki, your Minister for Artificial Citizens. “We must regrow new brains for the lot of them. It’ll cost a fortune, but it’s our duty as their leaders. It’s our fault these citizens are suffering; so naturally, we must do all we can to fix the problem. What other option is there? Think of your citizens.”

OPTION id="2":
“Are you insane?” asks your Public Relations Coordinator. “-er ahem, but think of the money! It would cost billions of @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ to regrow and transplant that many brains. Mark my words, if you give them new brains, you’ll have a coup on your hands for sending our economy into a tailspin. No. No. Absolutely not. We must,” he leans in with a pained look, “ship these ‘defectives’ off to a secluded island somewhere, so we can forget they ever existed.”

OPTION id="4":
An old man on the street who has been jabbing at you through the window with his cane chimes in, “The solution is plain as day you doddering fools! These vats must be closed immediately and the technology banned! They’re unnatural abominations! You know how I came into this world? Kicking and screaming from the loins of my mother! The government must allow people to have sex again and give birth the way God intended!”

OPTION id="5":
“Oh no no no, we’ve invested too much money into the national vat system to throw it all away over one minor incident,” stresses your Financial Minister Dave Cruz. “Look at the situation from a resource standpoint. This batch of resources is damaged, so naturally, the most economical solution is to remove the damaged products, dispose of them, and recycle the functional parts back into the vats. We must reduce, reuse and recycle, Leader, for the good of our national vats - and for the good of @@NAME@@, of course.”

User avatar
Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9559
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:49 pm

Based on your own previous report of the same issue, it looks like options 3 and 4 are variants of each other, but I can't tell what the difference is.

User avatar
Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:35 am

Trotterdam wrote:Based on your own previous report of the same issue, it looks like options 3 and 4 are variants of each other, but I can't tell what the difference is.

Makes sense (I had forgotten making that report), but there's always the chance that there's been a change since May when I made that post.

For the record, the nation that got it this time has this set of Policies.

Body Integrity
Cannabis
Capital Punishment
Capitalism
Child Labor
Compulsory Organ Harvesting
Conscription
Corporal Punishment
DNA Harvesting
Gun Control
Heterosexuality
Human Sacrifice
No Automobiles
No Emigration
No Marriage
No Prison
Prudism
Slavery
Sortition
Vat-Produced Infants

Of course, I don't have a list of policies from that May report, and, if options 3 and 4 are indeed variants of each other, the difference might not be a policy.

If one of my puppets gets #279 again with option 3, I'll try to remember this post and do a policy comparison.

User avatar
Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:57 am

Well, this is exciting. Puppet Cain B O-Cs v0 just got previously unknown options 4 and 6 (only) of issue #1378, a link in the MADNESS chain. They appear to be dups of 1 and 3. I suspect that option 5 is a dup of option 2. (The nation involved does have a named Leader.) Here are the texts of the two options, which to my eye seem identical to the spoiled 1 and 3.

4. “We can’t let the commies intimidate us!” declares Defense Minister Mack Rimera, who is pouring something from a flask into his morning coffee. “If they think we’re weak, they’ll just continue trying to take advantage of us at every opportunity. Have our flagship fire a warning shot across their bows and order East Lebatuck’s ships to turn around. If the enemy doesn’t comply, open fire and unleash hell.”

6. “No! That could escalate to war — and it would all be our fault!” shouts Maureen Dusk, who had been plucking a few notes of ‘Born in @@NAME@@’ on her guitar. “Keep the blockade in place and demand that the enemy stay back, but order our navy to take no action unless they’re directly attacked. Stopping East Lebatuck’s cargo shipments isn’t worth our sailors’ lives.”


Here are the issues in the chain previously received and the responses to them:

1375: 1
1376: 1
1377: 2

I have no clue what determines which set of options a nation receives, but I suspect it is the result of one of the choices earlier in the chain. But just in case they are relevant, here is the list of Cain B O-Cs v0's current policies:

Autocracy
Body Integrity
Cannabis
Capital Punishment
Capitalism
Child Labor
Heterosexuality
No Gambling
No Immigration
No Internet
No Judiciary
No Smoking
No Sports
Permanent Marriage
State Press
Weapons of Mass Destruction

User avatar
Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9559
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:43 pm

Well, I think we finally found #1380.

User avatar
Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:37 am

Trotterdam wrote:Well, I think we finally found #1380.

As usual, Trotterdam is completely correct. My puppet Cain B O-Cs v0 received issue #1380 today. Like issue #1379, the name of the issue is "A View to a Thrill", and the options are very similar to those of #1379, In fact, only option 1 differs in wording from the corresponding option of #1379. Here is the full text, with names related to my puppet replaced by the appropriate macros:

The Story So Far

East Lebatuck’s convoy confronted your naval blockade of San Vitenzo.
The Issue

The enemy ships refused to comply with your demands. A submarine bearing the red star of East Lebatuck brazenly torpedoed your lead warship, causing it to sink into the Gulf of Talkin. Your remaining blockade ships opened fire, destroying most of the convoy. Unfortunately, a cargo freighter was able to slip past the carnage and deliver more missiles and supplies to their operation on San Vitenzo.

The Debate

1. “This is an act of war!” yells Defense Minister Mack Rimera, throwing his notes across the room in a barely restrained fury. “Even worse, we only have a few days before they are able to launch. It’s imperative that we send our air force to bomb the missile sites — and we must do it now!”

2. “Don’t forget that we still have James Bont over there,” reminds Intelligence Minister N, who had been whispering to a young woman in the corner. “My assistant, Ms. Evelyn Cashcent, tells me that Agent Bont has made significant progress at infiltrating the enemy bases. There’s a good chance that he will be able to sabotage the missile launch equipment, if those are your orders. The only downside is that we don’t know how long this might take.”

3. “We shouldn’t have let the situation devolve into armed conflict,” states Minister of International Diplomacy Maureen Dusk, playing an anguished version of the ‘@@ANIMAL@@ Blues’ on her guitar. “If there’s any possibility of ending the violence, we have to pursue it. However, if we’re going to have some sort of diplomatic summit to work out our differences, this is almost certainly our last opportunity. If we let it slip away... things could get rather grim.”

Issue by The Holy Empire of Pogaria
Edited by Pogaria

The HTML labels these options as 0, 1 and 2, with no gaps.

I have not answered this issue yet, due to required work on my scripting to answer a never-before-seen issue. I suspect strongly that the talking points will be the same as those for the corresponding options of #1379. I also suspect, with somewhat less certainty, that the next issue to be presented is going to be the same as for the corresponding option of #1379.

User avatar
Paffnia
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: Nov 03, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Paffnia » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:18 am

Valentine Z wrote:
Paffnia wrote:Starting at #1477 in the table of contents, the links to each issue go to the wrong page of the thread.

Ahhhh, that is back to haunt me. It was supposed to point to the page after that, yes. start=75 instead of start=50.

Thanks for the heads-up, will fix this along with replacing the remaining smart quotes. ❤️

FYI, even though I see this in the changelog, I don't think the change actually got made in the thread.
Former Delegate of 10000 Islands
Knight of TITO
Denes nad Makedonija


WA Ambassador: Joakim Metyhap
Paffniac Factbook
Author, SC #93: Commend The Featured Region Followers
Commended by SC #276

User avatar
Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11060
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:34 am

Paffnia wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:Ahhhh, that is back to haunt me. It was supposed to point to the page after that, yes. start=75 instead of start=50.

Thanks for the heads-up, will fix this along with replacing the remaining smart quotes. ❤️

FYI, even though I see this in the changelog, I don't think the change actually got made in the thread.

Ahh, that was persistent! This is fixed for good now, this time. ^^


Issues Thread 4th in Gen Sec

The Sixty! Opinions Deposit! Valentian Stories! Gwen's Adventures! Cat Anthem! Valentian News.
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
Q & A Here! | Heights of NS! | F7 Etiquette

Clarissa mistaken for Smurf/Avatar: 14
Valentijn Misgendered: 59
Valentijn now a She!

• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• As a wise man once said: 我等は砲兵 皇国の護り (We are Artillery Guardians of the Empire).
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.

User avatar
Divine Cervine
Secretary
 
Posts: 40
Founded: May 19, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Issue #1488: First, Do No Harm

Postby Divine Cervine » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:00 pm

Issue #1488: First, Do No Harm [United Indian Nations; ed: Candlewhisper Archive]

First, Do No Harm

The Issue


A recent army operation to secure a contested landing zone for medical evacuation of injured infantrymen saw military doctors and nurses being ordered to open fire on enemy soldiers, in order to clear a path to the helicopters. This has triggered a debate on the ethics of firearm use for battlefield medical personnel.

The Debate

1. “Our corpsmen have sidearms because they are soldiers, and soldiers kill people!” bellows your Rear-Echelon Marshall Fokker, pointing his index finger at a nervous aide and making ‘pew-pew’ noises. “This is war! Do you expect our doctors and nurses to stand by when there’s fighting to be done? No! A medic is just a soldier with additional skills. They must use their sidearms to kill the enemy at every opportunity. Hell, let’s give them flamethrowers!”


2. “I object, that goes against everything I believe in and everything I trained for,” argues military Staff Nurse Lieutenant Flora Slaava, dramatically standing on a chair. “Our job is to heal, not to kill! To sustain life for as long as humanly possible, not take it! In fact, we have an ethical duty to treat wounded enemy soldiers. Carrying a gun diminishes our status as non-combatants, and we should neither be expected or allowed to carry firearms.”


3. “I think I disagree partially with my colleague here,” states army gastroenterology consultant Major Pyles. “Some situations do warrant the use of firearms. You have to protect your patient with your life, your patient whose life is in your hands. Should we let him be taken prisoner or let the enemy deal him a deathblow? Of course not! That would be doing him harm! That, in my opinion, goes against the very oath we swore to hold sacred. We do need sidearms, but to defend ourselves and our patients. However, we should never participate in offensive actions.”


Issue by United Indian Nations
Edited by Candlewhisper Archive



It is possible that the names may not be random.
Last edited by Divine Cervine on Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
O Solitude!
O Solitude! If I must with thee dwell, let it not be among the jumbled heap of murky buildings; climb with me the steep,— nature’s observatory—whence the dell, its flowery slopes, its river’s crystal swell, may seem a span; let me thy vigils keep ’mongst boughs pavillion’d, where the deer’s swift leap startles the wild bee from the fox-glove bell. But though I’ll gladly trace these scenes with thee, yet the sweet converse of an innocent mind, whose words are images of thoughts refin’d, is my soul’s pleasure; and it sure must be almost the highest bliss of human-kind, when to thy haunts two kindred spirits flee. — John Keats


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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9559
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:58 pm

Rocain Founder wrote:In fact, only option 1 differs in wording from the corresponding option of #1379.
Actually, everything except option 2 differst, including the opening.

Side-by-side:
#1379 issue: The enemy ships have turned back, in compliance with your demands. However, your surveillance of the island now shows that the nuclear missiles that were already on San Vitenzo are almost ready for deployment.
#1380 issue: The enemy ships refused to comply with your demands. A submarine bearing the red star of East Lebatuck brazenly torpedoed your lead warship, causing it to sink into the Gulf of Talkin. Your remaining blockade ships opened fire, destroying most of the convoy. Unfortunately, a cargo freighter was able to slip past the carnage and deliver more missiles and supplies to their operation on San Vitenzo.
That's a pretty significant difference!

The differences in options 1 and 3 make sense in light of this.
#1379 1. "They were just using the standoff as a delaying tactic!" yells Defense Minister Mack Rimera, throwing his notes across the room in a barely restrained fury. "While we were pointing our guns at each other, East Lebatuck was biding its time until their doomsday weapons were ready. We only have a few days before they are able to launch. It's imperative that we send our air force to bomb the missile sites — and we must do it now!"
#1380 1. "This is an act of war!" yells Defense Minister Mack Rimera, throwing his notes across the room in a barely restrained fury. "Even worse, we only have a few days before they are able to launch. It's imperative that we send our air force to bomb the missile sites — and we must do it now!"
#1379 2. "Don't forget that we still have James Bont over there," reminds Intelligence Minister N, who had been whispering to a young woman in the corner. "My assistant, Ms. Evelyn Cashcent, tells me that Agent Bont has made significant progress at infiltrating the enemy bases. There's a good chance that he will be able to sabotage the missile launch equipment, if those are your orders. The only downside is that we don't know how long this might take."
#1380 2. "Don't forget that we still have James Bont over there," reminds Intelligence Minister N, who had been whispering to a young woman in the corner. "My assistant, Ms. Evelyn Cashcent, tells me that Agent Bont has made significant progress at infiltrating the enemy bases. There's a good chance that he will be able to sabotage the missile launch equipment, if those are your orders. The only downside is that we don't know how long this might take."
#1379 3. "It's still not too late for negotiations," claims Minister of International Diplomacy Maureen Dusk, playing an anguished version of the '@@ANIMAL@@ Blues' on her guitar. "If there's any possibility of a non-violent solution, we have to pursue it. However, if we're going to have some sort of diplomatic summit to work out our differences, this is almost certainly our last opportunity. If we let it slip away... things could get rather grim."
#1380 3. "We shouldn't have let the situation devolve into armed conflict," states Minister of International Diplomacy Maureen Dusk, playing an anguished version of the '@@ANIMAL@@ Blues' on her guitar. "If there's any possibility of ending the violence, we have to pursue it. However, if we're going to have some sort of diplomatic summit to work out our differences, this is almost certainly our last opportunity. If we let it slip away... things could get rather grim."


So, we know for a fact that:
1. You need to pick #1376 1 in order to receive #1378, and by extension, either #1379 or #1380.
2. #1378 has variant options depending on whether you're about to get #1379 or #1380, so this has already been decided.
3. Therefore, it has to depend either on your choice in #1375, your choice in #1377, or on pre-existing policies.

Let's take a look at the options on #1375:
1. "There you are! We haven't spoken in ages," enthuses Chancellor Kurt Zahmahkibo of Smalltopia. "I hate to ask for your help, but I have a bit of a conundrum. I'm sure you have heard that East Lebatuck, our largest neighbor, has become rather menacing and hostile recently. Their military has been conducting frequent 'training exercises' right next to the border. The next thing you know, they'll be storming our cities with their tanks! To be blunt, we need protection from these communist warmongers. Would it be possible to station some of your nuclear weapons in our country?"

3. Before you can respond, you hear a shout from the nearby bar. "Hey, it's the Head Honcho of @@NAME@@! How's it going?" exclaims Smalltopia's Air Chief Marshall Diego Fufu, who seems to see this sort of gathering as an excuse to get uproariously drunk. "Did the Boss Man tell you about our proposal to borrow some of your nukes? You know, if you really wanted to protect us, why don't you just give us the launch codes after sending over your missiles? That way, we'd both be able to unleash destruction upon anyone who threatened us... including those vulgar Maxtopians."

5. "Yeah... we're not giving out our nuclear launch codes," declares your Defense Minister, Mack Rimera, who has been glaring at the Merovingian delegation with a look of disgust. "However, Chancellor Zahmahkibo has a point. The commie parasites need to be kept in check. Tell Smalltopia that we will agree to their request, but only if we can set up a military base on their land — and doing it correctly is going to require a lot of tax @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@."

7. [irrelevant, since it cancels the chain]

2/4/6/8. [irrelevant, since only communists get these and they proceed to #1391]
And #1377:
1. "Good morning, boss," proclaims the steady voice of your spy chief. "Bont reported that he was able to steal a missile technician's uniform and security badge that may allow him to enter the enemy bases undetected. However, there's been a small... complication. We believe that one or more enemy agents are aware of his presence. They're probably too dangerous to ignore. Do you want to give Bont a free hand to neutralize the threat? A few bullets should take care of... wait, did you hear that clicking sound? I hope this phone isn't bugged. Code Blue, @@LEADER@@." N hangs up, leaving you bewildered.

2. After staring at your phone for a few seconds, you feel your right shoe vibrating as blue text starts scrolling across the toe: "Alternatively, if you're uncomfortable with extrajudicial killings, you could order Bont to capture any enemy spies and hand them off to us for interrogation. It's riskier than just shooting them — our enemies may have set up a trap that could result in Bont's death — but we might be able to gain valuable intel or use prisoners as a negotiating tool."

3. While still thinking it over, you're suddenly interrupted by cooing coming from an open window. A carrier pigeon alights on your shoulder and presents a small note tied to its right leg: "There's a third way of dealing with this. If you want, you could instruct Bont to simply ignore the enemy agents and focus on his primary mission. This might just be a diversion to waste our time and allow East Lebatuck to finish installing their missiles. Well, let me know of your decision by this evening. PS: This message will self-destruct in ten seconds."

4/5/6. [irrelevant, since if you get this you're heading for #1381]
It's really not obvious how choosing #1375 1 or #1377 2 would raise tensions and encourage the situation to escalate into a shooting war.

(It would make sense if that depended on choosing the more aggressive option in #1378, but we know that's not it.)

Note that in the communist version of the narrative, they get to decide in #1393 whether to attack the blockade or not. In the capitalist version of the narrative, you're the one setting the blockade, and the decision to attack or not is somehow made by the NPC nation.

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rocain Founder » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:01 pm

I did indeed miss the difference in option 3, and shouldn't have. I didn't mention the Intro, because it's not an option, and it's pretty obvious that it's different.

As for the cause, I guess I'd have to put my money on #1377 2. If Bont did attempt to capture someone, in theory that might have raised tensions just a little bit more to where the socialist side got fed up.

There's also the possibility that the second set of options in 1378 had some effect we haven't seen yet, and that in fact it was the aggression in #1378 that caused the attack. (BTW, my puppet picked the first option for #1380, and #1385 was queued up for it a few minutes ago.)

The flaw in either hypothesis is: why did it take so long for someone to find #1380 compared to all the other possibilities? I think a policy-related cause is easily the least likely possibility, and consider the rarity a point in favor of #1377 2 being the cause. Trying to capture an agent is pretty clearly more risky than either killing them or ignoring them, which might well mean it's less frequently picked.

All just speculation. I don't know how to tell. I can't set up more puppets to try to get further instances, because I've already pretty much reached the number of puppets I have time to handle. There are some existing puppets which still haven't seen the chain, but how long it will take for one of them to get it is anybody's guess.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9559
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:09 pm

Rocain Founder wrote:If Bont did attempt to capture someone, in theory that might have raised tensions just a little bit more to where the socialist side got fed up.
More than simply shooting first and asking questions later?

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Pogaria
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 2882
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pogaria » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:05 pm

Yay, someone finally reported #1380!

Let's hope it won't take another year for someone to figure out what causes it... :p
FYI: Pogaria is pronounced like puh-GAIR-ee-uh

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