[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects Since New Update

[Skappola]

"Water Supply Problems Becoming A Major Drain"
Picking option one, siding with the farmers, causes crime to increase by a ~4%. Water rationing is annoying, but it doesn't cause crime jumps.

It caused a raise from 16.22 → 16.78 in Crimes Per Hour or 3.5% for you personally. Overall negligible.

If you tell people, 'Hey, stop watering your lawns or else' at least a few people are going to say 'Or else what?' and keep doing it. That accounts for the minor crime bump.

The vast majority of my issues seem to have effects of 4% or less, except for the crazy ones which involve banning cars.

[Venetoland]

I just had the circumcision decision. I allowed boys to make informed decisions when they're older. Why did this cost me Civil Rights points?

[Luna Amore]

It caused a raise from 16.22 → 16.78 in Crimes Per Hour or 3.5% for you personally. Overall negligible.

If you tell people, 'Hey, stop watering your lawns or else' at least a few people are going to say 'Or else what?' and keep doing it. That accounts for the minor crime bump.

The vast majority of my issues seem to have effects of 4% or less, except for the crazy ones which involve banning cars.

That's why I prefer the real number change instead of the percentage. My Book Publishing Industry only dropped by 4% on one of my recent issues. That 4% drop equated to a drop of over 2000 points though because my Book Publishing industry is massive.

That same issue bumped up my Authoritarianism by 66.67%. Seems drastic until you see it just went from .03 -> .05.

The actual trend numbers tell the story better.

[Svothlore]

I am now convinced that this game hates me and every Svothlorean.

Sorry to post three times in this thread in the course of three days, but I'm a whiny wimp and I want what's best for my people. I just resolved issue #45. I can't find the text anywhere, but essentially what happened was I defunded sports. (For the record, prior to this issue, our government was spending exactly 0 River Coins on sports funding.) What happened?

My economy went down! A lot! Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This has been a continuous pattern for me ever since the update. My economy was better than anything else, and all of a sudden, everything that happens pushes it down.

Also, freedom from taxation went down. Which also makes absolutely no sense.

[Phydios]

I am now convinced that this game hates me and every Svothlorean.

Sorry to post three times in this thread in the course of three days, but I'm a whiny wimp and I want what's best for my people. I just resolved issue #45. I can't find the text anywhere, but essentially what happened was I defunded sports. (For the record, prior to this issue, our government was spending exactly 0 River Coins on sports funding.) What happened?

My economy went down! A lot! Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This has been a continuous pattern for me ever since the update. My economy was better than anything else, and all of a sudden, everything that happens pushes it down.

Also, freedom from taxation went down. Which also makes absolutely no sense.

For your benefit, this thread documents the text of all issues.

[Wine-loving Chimps]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=enact_ ... ilemma=365

Option 3 of issue 365 (the bus advert one), literally no stat change at all. I know the Charlotte Sweet option 3 also has no effects (by design), but just making sure.

[Luna Amore]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=enact_dilemma/dilemma=365

Option 3 of issue 365 (the bus advert one), literally no stat change at all. I know the Charlotte Sweet option 3 also has no effects (by design), but just making sure.

Every issue choice has a coded stat effect.

Depending on what nation is answering, that effect may be nil.

[Ceretis]

Don't Stead On Me - Option 2 allowing homesteading
This option has no effect regarding agriculture whatsoever even though I'm increasing agriculture. This should have a net gain to agriculture.

""By allowing plants, animals and people to flourish side by side, working with nature instead of against it, we're restoring balance to our cities. And it's great social policy, you know, educating the kids, alleviating poverty and boosting health, sort of."
No environment or eco-friendliness boost for working with nature and improving environments? No boost in education for the kiddies? No poverty modification? No boost in health with the well tended artisan foods? No civil rights boost? No compassion improvement? Death rate improvement from better health? Freedom from taxation as it's home grown? I'd assume ideological radicality? Homemade artisan cheese production increase maybe for export? Lifespan increase? Obesity decrease? Heck with all the new local foods maybe even an increase in locally grown ingredient pizzas to deliver? Human development increase? Decrease in need for welfare because they can grow food for themselves?

Instead this does somehow increase the black market, which should only come about by banning something, NOT increasing freedom to do something. This also damages freedom from taxation even though there were no taxes involved. Also the greatest change is to harm my pizza delivery industry even though people are going to eat pizza no matter what, and if these homesteaders aren't going to eat pizza, they probably already weren't eating pizza. This should have no effect on that industry because the homesteaders would be outside the target market for the industry anyway.

[Icamera]

292.3 (choosing to provide government support for tourism) resulted in a 31,270% increase in my cheese exports industry.

I mean, maybe my nation had a really, really small cheese exports industry before, making an increase of any kind have a huge effect, but I've never seen such a massive stat change before, so I'm just checking to see if it was a glitch.

[Luna Amore]

292.3 (choosing to provide government support for tourism) resulted in a 31,270% increase in my cheese exports industry.

I mean, maybe my nation had a really, really small cheese exports industry before, making an increase of any kind have a huge effect, but I've never seen such a massive stat change before, so I'm just checking to see if it was a glitch.

That does look very wrong. You shot up from -3.10 → 966.41 31,270%. [v] will need to take a look at it cause I can't see why it should jump that much.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

...I'm guessing #418.3 ("Tourism spikes whenever a major boat or plane is lost.") reducing my Tourism industry by 0.13% is a function of Tourism already being my biggest industry, so that the only possible effect seen is that the people on those very same crashed planes and sunken boats are no longer available to come sunbathe on my gorgeous beaches or ski my awesome mountain peaks

Actually, coming up with explanations for these counterintuitive results is at least as fun as playing the issues straight.

[Latamer]

On issue 187.3, making people in debt toil in labor camps increased lifespan.

[Trotterdam]

On issue 187.3, making people in debt toil in labor camps increased lifespan.

Exercise is healthy! And your labor camps are very strict about not letting them drink or smoke.

[Luna Amore]

On issue 187.3, making people in debt toil in labor camps increased lifespan.

I started to try and untangle this one, but as the change is "Years 25.14 → 25.16 0.08%", it's just an unintended consequence.

On issue 187.3, making people in debt toil in labor camps increased lifespan.

Exercise is healthy! And your labor camps are very strict about not letting them drink or smoke.

I like this answer better.

[[violet]]

I just resolved issue #45. I can't find the text anywhere, but essentially what happened was I defunded sports. (For the record, prior to this issue, our government was spending exactly 0 River Coins on sports funding.) What happened?

My economy went down! A lot! Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. [...] Also, freedom from taxation went down. Which also makes absolutely no sense.

This issue option involves a cut to business support, which can indeed be quite influential on the economy.

The taxation change was tiny (0.13%) and an effect of competing forces in that you have a decrease both in government size and industry size (less government revenue but also less need for funding).

[[violet]]

292.3 (choosing to provide government support for tourism) resulted in a 31,270% increase in my cheese exports industry.

I mean, maybe my nation had a really, really small cheese exports industry before, making an increase of any kind have a huge effect, but I've never seen such a massive stat change before, so I'm just checking to see if it was a glitch.

That does look very wrong. You shot up from -3.10 → 966.41 31,270%. [v] will need to take a look at it cause I can't see why it should jump that much.

It's a huge percentage change, but it's basically a rise from zero to small.

The issue option directly boosts a few industries including Cheese Exports. After the boost, Cheese Exports is generating 966 Ladrolas per person per annum. By way of comparison, Book Publishing is 36,815 Ladrolas per person per annum.

[[violet]]

...I'm guessing #418.3 ("Tourism spikes whenever a major boat or plane is lost.") reducing my Tourism industry by 0.13% is a function of Tourism already being my biggest industry, so that the only possible effect seen is that the people on those very same crashed planes and sunken boats are no longer available to come sunbathe on my gorgeous beaches or ski my awesome mountain peaks

Actually, coming up with explanations for these counterintuitive results is at least as fun as playing the issues straight.

I applaud your effort! What actually happened is there was a boost to Tourism, but it was overwhelmed by the loss of tourists caused by your nation becoming hard-nosed jerks who like to profit from tragedy, which makes it less attractive to foreigners.

This is probably an issue bug, though, because the description contradicts the effect. I will raise it with Editors.

[Kotawo]

On "Say Cheese" (Issue #277), I choose to allow freedom of press to take photos. And yet, my civil rights fell. Explain this to me.

[[violet]]

On "Say Cheese" (Issue #277), I choose to allow freedom of press to take photos. And yet, my civil rights fell. Explain this to me.

The issue affects two types of civil rights in opposite directions: censorship and privacy. You supported the free press, but there was already no censorship in your nation, so this didn't change anything. The loss of privacy, though, caused a small (0.23%) drop in Civil Rights overall.

[[violet]]

On issue 187.3, making people in debt toil in labor camps increased lifespan.

I started to try and untangle this one, but as the change is "Years 25.14 → 25.16 0.08%", it's just an unintended consequence.

Exercise is healthy! And your labor camps are very strict about not letting them drink or smoke.

I like this answer better.

Yes, it's hard to figure that one out, because Lifespan is affected by a ton of different things, and a 0.08% change just means all those things balanced out in the end. But I see your Economy rose a lot, and especially Wealth Gaps (up 61%!), so what happened here was that the rich got richer, which means safer, longer lives, while the poor got poorer, which means shorter lives. And on average, lifespan came out about the same.

[[violet]]

Don't Stead On Me - Option 2 allowing homesteading
This option has no effect regarding agriculture whatsoever even though I'm increasing agriculture. This should have a net gain to agriculture.

I think I agree. One for the Editors. The option currently has very few effects.

Instead this does somehow increase the black market, which should only come about by banning something, NOT increasing freedom to do something. This also damages freedom from taxation even though there were no taxes involved.

Taxes automatically adjust based on how much money your government needs to raise and from how much private industry & citizens. In this case, there was a barely detectable rise (0.07%) due to a slump in the Pizza industry, leaving the same amount of tax revenue to be raised from a smaller number of citizens & industry. Higher tax rates usually mean more black market activity, since the reward is greater for evading the tax office. But again this was only a small change.

[Trotterdam]

#418.3 ("Tourism spikes whenever a major boat or plane is lost.") reducing my Tourism industry by 0.13%

What actually happened is there was a boost to Tourism, but it was overwhelmed by the loss of tourists caused by your nation becoming hard-nosed jerks who like to profit from tragedy, which makes it less attractive to foreigners.

This is probably an issue bug, though, because the description contradicts the effect. I will raise it with Editors.

If this is looked at, please also check the other disaster-into-tourism options enumerated here, many of which should logically have similar effects, and so may have similar problems.

Keeping in mind for some of them that besides rudeness, environmental beauty also affects tourism.

[Divergia]

I got issue 470 and went with option one. Apparently my Pizza Delivery sector went down 31%, and my charmlessness went up 31%.

http://imgur.com/hmeWZ4y

I mean if I'm saving my beaches from erosion how is that reducing my charm or hurting my ability to deliver pizza. I mean do have cities underwater? No, Would I want some heck yes!

[Eahland]

Two of my nations (this one and Gnark) just simultaneously got #44 "No Pain, No Gain", and both chose option #2, making torture illegal. In both cases, it made Charmlessness go up slightly. I suspect that's fallout from the increased Crime, but being considered a more ghastly place to visit because we don't torture people still seems to me like a very odd outcome.

[Mostrov]

Whoops, I did look at the wrong nation. When I saw .17, I figured you just misread it.

I see that 17% drop, let me look over that option and see if we need to adjust it.

Option 2 of issue #490 caused a 21% dip in my nations economy and practically every other statistical change possible. I understand why this happened, nevertheless it is quite drastic for what would intuitively seem a relatively minor change. I had guessed that this option would have reduced corruption, the reason I chose it, but apparently not. The most bizarre effect I find is that taxation is only reduced very slightly. How exactly is the 'revenue' generated and government and hence the broader economy expanded if taxation is ultimately capped? Unless someone is really into socialist ideas of economics and its some abstract point about units of account, something which I very much doubt this is intended. As it stands it would seem that when expanding the economy for a socialist style economy the increase is generated from the ether with no detrimental effect and that any contraction of the government is bad and similarly disappears into nothingness.

I am bumping to ask if this is WAD?

Feeling rather peevish I tabulated every change that was visible to me:

	20/03/16	21/03/16	Percentage Change	Percentage of Section
Economy	96.3	78.74	-18.23%
Economic Output	4,422,841B	3,973,987B	-10.15%
Black Market	550.9B	529.5B	-3.88%
Population	14.459B	14.464B
-
Average Income	305,888.45	274,750.22	-10.18%
Average Income of Rich	326,378.58	293,154.54	-10.18%
Average Income of Poor	284,582.79	255,613.39	-10.18%
-
Employment	31.34	31.32	-0.06%
-
-
Taxation	102.69	102.34	-0.34%
Freedom From Taxation	-1,728.68	-1,647.35	+4.70%
-
Government Size	79.55	78	-1.95%
-
Defense Forces	29,972.68	26,152.97	-12.74%	20.2
Law Enforcement	26,429.11	23,064.21	-12.73%	17.8
Public Education	15,060.17	13,166.67	-12.57%	10.2
Public Healthcare	13,534.46	11,859.02	-12.38%	9.2
Public Transport	1O,679.92	9,356.45	-12.39%	7.2
Business Subsidization	9,722.16	8,552.26	-12.48%	6.6
Foreign Aid	8,883.53	7,800.8	-12.19%	6.0
Administration1		7800		6.0
Welfare	8,046.85	7,079.34	-12.02%	5.5
Social Policy1		6,890		5.3
Spirituality1		5,200		4.0
Environment	2,928.37	2,615.3	-10.69%	2.2
Total		129537.02		100.0
-
Sector: Manufacturing	52,602.3	48,193.6	-8.38%
Sector: Agriculture	5,256.29	4,815.75	-8.38%
Total	57,858.59	53009.35	-8.38%
-
Industry: Arms Manu.	38,113.05	34,918.72	-8.38%
Industry: Mining	18,091.88	16,575.57	-8.38%
Industry: Info. Tech.	17,068.19	15,637.67	-8.38%
Industry: Auto. Manu.	10,709.45	9,811.87	-8.38%
Industry: Insurance	9,955.46	9,121.07	-8.38%
Industry: Furn. Rest.	7,165.88	6,565.3	-8.38%
Industry: Book Publishing	6,372.52	5,838.42	-8.38%
Industry: Cheese Exports	4,181.41	3,830.96	-8.38%
Industry: Basket Weaving	3,779.81	3,463.01	-8.38%
Industry: Retail	2,441.12	2,236.53	-8.38%
Industry: Pizza Delivery	2,182.84	1,999.89	-8.38%
Industry: Beverage Sales	1,053.23	964.95	-8.38%
Industry: Trout Fishing	803.21	735.89	-8.38%
Industry: Gambling	669.5	613.39	-8.38%
Industry: Timber.	-7.87	-7.87	0.00%
Total	122587.55	112313.24	-8.38%
-
Tourism2	1,384.37	1,320.3	-4.63%
-
Current Government Spending3		1,984,000B		49.9
Current GDP3		3,975,910B
-
Non-economic changes
Human Development Index	68.74	59.78	-13.03%
Safety	186.37	181.01	-2.88%
Compliance	209.87	205.59	-2.04%
Intelligence	147.8	145.45	-1.59%
Inclusiveness	203.11	201.05	-1.01%
Scientific Advancement	301.65	298.83	-0.93%
Lifespan	27.57	27.33	-0.87%
Environmental Beauty	2.41	2.4	-0.41%
Primitiveness	-317.29	-314.61	+0.84%
Crime	1.18	1.19	+0.85%
Weather	5.39	5.46	+1.30%
Religiousness	7.03	6.93	+1.42%
Secularism	39.29	40.11	+2.09%
Death Rate	252.24	260.49	+3.27%
Pacifism	9.9	9.42	+4.85%
Charmlessness4	0.65	0.72	+10.77%
Weaponization4	0.05	0.06	+20.00%

<sup>1. These values are calculated and are not actually visible anywhere and are current. The percentage changes seem to be relatively unchanged, unless something interesting happened to administration which might well be the case.
2. Tourism seems to be an anomaly in terms of the effects that are had on it. Its obviously calculated differently from an intuitive perspective. Where it affects the ledger is unknown to me.
3. There inclusion gives insight into how they are calculated. These values are merely the current ones
4. Anomalous percentile changes due to how small the values are.</sup>

Aptly enough putting this all into a table has showed me a few interesting things about how these values interact with each other. Other values were garnered from the government and economic graphs. Particularly the relationship between the industries and expenditure of governmental departments to the GDP. I am sure that I could work out more of it with some more thought, but not tonight. Certainly it seems that Socialist-style systems with no private enterprise seem relatively straightforward to work out and with the added advantage of having high governmental spending in allowing social engineering.

The one thing that seems to be rather out of place from my initial examination is what purpose business subsidisation actually serves given the fact that industry is calculated already? Logically it would consist of half of the government budget or nothing. I am sure there exists a 'creative' explanation for something that is the games representation of certain values that are there to fit within the game engine itself. I merely raise these complaints because they show things that really ought be under the surface so to speak.