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[Joint Statement] Rebuttal Regarding the Outback

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Varanius
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[Joint Statement] Rebuttal Regarding the Outback

Postby Varanius » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:21 pm

Image

Rebuttal Regarding the Outback

The West Pacific • The Outback • the Plains of Perdition • The North Pacific • Europeia • Balder


Significant falsehoods about the state of affairs surrounding the Outback have spread in recent days. The following evidence-based account refutes these baseless claims:

Several months ago, a once-in-a-career opportunity presented itself to a new generation of NationStates players: the chance to be a cornerstone influence in a new GCR. The Plains of Perdition and The Outback stood ready for anyone capable of fulfilling their promise. A look at today’s endorsement count of either would confirm that delegates Rhaza and Walkabout were such capable players. The Outback was, in its nascence, adopted by a coalition consisting of The West Pacific, the North Pacific, and—crucial to previous claims made today—Lone Wolves United. An effort spearheaded by the West, but one in which all partners could ostensibly recognize the innate value of contribution. The Augustin Alliance was not present for the settling of the Outback, their then Diplomatic Officer Haymarket Riot volunteering in voice chat with Rhaza to instead support the Plains of Perdition. So came the establishment of the regional government. Bran Astor, Dilber, Dalimbar, Badger, and Sensor, all themselves members of the West Pacific, moved to establish a government. Lone Wolves United opted to send Lamb Stone, based on his experience in region building. This was to be the core group upon which the Outback’s government and development would be entrusted.

In the following weeks, piler numbers from militaries other than the West fluctuated. Lone Wolves United stated they’d likely be gone in the month, and true to word, their forces were all but gone by 2025, certainly by February. The North Pacific Army understandably departed for their delegacy transition. Both of these were understood and accepted by TO and TWP without complaint. The Augustin Alliance sent a handful of pilers from their newly revived military, though clarified they also would pull out fairly soon lest prolonged engagements in the Outback cause stagnation for their military development. This, too, was accepted and understood without complaint. The NPO has not been mentioned thus far because of their decision to eschew any involvement in the Outback from the beginning, aside from a stated openness to an eventual treaty. While certain actors within the Outback took issue with this, TWP as the then-primary settlers, clarified that they were disappointed though not resentful. The New Pacific Order’s refusal to help was, again, accepted without complaint.

Lone Wolves United and the Augustin Alliance raised concerns to the West Pacific about the endorsement situation in the Outback, and we completely agreed that it was a matter of concern. This was due to a confluence of factors. Walkabout, also known as Bran, had experienced a series of personal tragedies which, for the sake of the IC/OOC divide, will not be expounded upon, but which all involved parties were informed of. Lady Anastasia/Dalimbar had been representing the Outback in Foreign Affairs, but also had increased OOC demands after the Outback's founding1. Lamb and Dilber too were busy. Still, the government of the Outback carved out a time for an all-stakeholder (the term for people in government and invested foreign parties with access to ministerial channels) meeting to discuss the future of the region. This meeting was, materially, extremely productive. The roleplay map was set to be published before the end of the week, World Assembly integration measures were codified and assigned, and various cabinet officials committed to specific and tangible policy goals, all of which were met. This meeting’s productivity was in spite of the attendance of Tom and joWhatup, who were less interested in discussing ways the region could develop and more interested in chastising the delegate for not having done so sooner. An effort that both Western stakeholders and the native community noted was unproductive.

It was baffling, then, to be pulled into a group chat two days before the only remaining military there, the Augustin Alliance, was set to withdraw. In this group chat (consisting of Syberis, Chipoli, Tom, Fujai, Haymarket Riot, and myself), the NPO, AA, LWU, and TNP issued an ultimatum to the West Pacific with the sole demand of Bran’s deposition as delegate of the Outback—something they had no right to ask of TWP and that TWP as an ally had no right to ask of the Outback— or else the respective regions would be withdrawing from any treaties, halting any new ones, and ending all current or future military support to the region. For clarity’s sake, the exact text of the ultimatum is:

Hey, Fujai and Vara. We’ve made this group chat to discuss the state of the Outback with you, because it’s really come to a breaking point and this cannot be allowed to go on. All of the regions here have backed the Outback in some form or another - LWU and TNP were here at the very start with you, the AA has reinforced the delegacy militarily, and the NPO has pledged assistance in event of external threats. All of us have a stake in the Outback, and we’ve been content to allow TWP to run it as they see fit. You guys made it clear you considered this your project, and we accepted that and supported you.

However, over the past three months it’s become more and more apparent that this is not working out. Essentially zero progress has been made since the region has been taken and it’s become clear to all of us that this is a leadership problem. We understand that Bran has had a lot of serious RL stuff happen recently, and we sympathize with it heavily. That being said, this is not a new development. The region has stagnated from the start under his leadership. He has repeatedly done very little and then proceeded to ignore and mistreat those under him that have actually put in work to try to make the region successful. The region cannot be successful if any work undertaken is in vain because of the Delegate’s attitude. We want to make it clear, this isn’t just about how inactive the region has been, it’s about the way Bran has been treating people in both the Outback and abroad over the past three months. We remain unconvinced that as long as he is Delegate nothing in the region will change. If we do commit further time and resources we feel they will be squandered by his mismanagement of the region.

The regions represented here have all agreed that this is not an acceptable state of affairs and that it represents a risk to our regions’ reputations, time, and resources to continue attaching ourselves to this. As such, if Bran remains as the Delegate we will be withdrawing any remaining pilers and will not be returning. We will be withdrawing from any existing treaties and will not be considering new ones. We do not make this decision lightly, but our good will and patience have been stretched beyond their limits and the region’s state of affairs represents a continued liability for all parties involved. The regions represented here have all agreed that this is not an acceptable state of affairs and that it represents a risk to our regions’ reputations, time, and resources to continue attaching ourselves to this.


Underline added by us.

On top of the outrageous nature of making such a demand of an ally, let alone from a sovereign GCR, the multiple critical flaws of such an approach were repeatedly expounded upon when the New Pacific Order attempted to contact us privately. The three options proposed as Bran’s replacement were Dali (whose activity and intentions have been addressed above), Dilber (who aside from his personal life wanted Bran to remain delegate), and Lamb (contrary to LWU’s claims otherwise), despite the fact he had not manually recruited in weeks prior to the ultimatum and had not to anyone’s knowledge attempted to recruit more recruiters, his job as Governor of Recruitment). Beyond this, the inherent risk posed to the political and cultural development of the region by foreign attempts to depose an internally relatively popular delegate was clearly unacceptable (Dilber, Badger, and Sensor all proudly believed Bran should remain). Also raised was the concern that simply switching out the delegate would fail to address any actual material problems in the region or build an endorsement base, to which NPO Senator of Diplomatic Affairs Callisto told Varanius “…we ourselves are not interested in giving input in The Outback as far as any particulars go, we are simply concerned that this will become a problem for PPO as a whole on a long term basis that damages or delays our other plans if this doesn’t change.” Clearly they didn’t consider the matter of regional delegacy to be a “particular”. We disputed many of their and the Augustin Alliance’s claims of refusal by the government to act, and invited them to become Stakeholders themselves, a position with zero obligations or required involvement and which would allow them nearly unrestricted access to the Outback’s Discord channels. Both regions ignored these offers and, in doing so, declined, instead moving ahead with their previously stated intentions to withdraw.

Suffice it to say, the West Pacific denied this ultimatum. The assorted regions involved withdrew what minimal pilers they had left, and considered themselves done with it. This is when the Outback’s then-new ally, the Plains of Perdition, alongside soon-to-be ally Europeia, as well as Balder, the Land of Kings and Emperors, and the Region That Has No Big Banks, availed themselves to the region. All of them stepped in to provide support in one way or another, be that military, moral, political, or technological. With their assistance and the dedication of the remaining regional government, the Outback has flourished, and currently boasts more native endorsements than it had natives or pilers at the time of the ultimatum. It was then that officials of both the NPO and the AA recognized their misdeeds and stated intentions to TWP to either apologize or act to make amends, a selection of which can be viewed below:
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Note: “Solringen” is Haymarket Riot/Jinkies of the AA.

The West Pacific made continued efforts to follow up with both the Augustin Alliance and the New Pacific Order on the nature of their intended apologies and reparations, what forms we would appreciate them in (we were content keeping apologies from them private, for the record), and what the timeline on that may look like. These attempts at communication were ignored, brushed past, or responded to with cryptic statements of “investigation” that never seemed to yield any findings. Lone Wolves United attempted to contact Fujai on two separate occasions to speak about their concerns regarding how TWP viewed the Outback, and were both times redirected to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and both times never followed up. Claims that the West Pacific did not attempt to communicate our desire for a peaceful and private solution with them could easily be dissuaded by talks by, say, this morning:

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To call the behavior of the NPO, AA, and LWU here a mistake would not do justice to the repetition and intent requisite to do all of this for this long. To call it a strategic act of sabotage would be impossible to reconcile with the fools they have made of themselves.

At this time, the West Pacific will be withdrawing from the Treaty of the Pirate’s Den per Section 5 Subsection 3, and the Pax Polaris Occidens via Section 5 Subsection 3.

While this statement largely recounts the perspective of the most aggrieved parties, the undersigned regions affirm our agreement to this statement as written and our commitment to the Outback as a free and sovereign region.

1 Note: In error this sentence previously stated: Lady Anastasia/Dalimbar had been similarly inactive internally, and had stated an intention to Bran and Varanius to refocus his efforts on his North Pacifican judiciary role.
Signatures

The West Pacific
Fujai, World Assembly Delegate
Varanius, Successor, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Guardian of the West

The Outback
Walkabout, World Assembly Delegate
Wauka Mountain, Governor of Home Affairs
Sensoria, Governor of Foreign Affairs

The Plains of Perdition
Rhaza, Primarch
Nolrem, Chancellor
New Opolopia, Minister of Foreign Affairs
Ostrovskiy, Foreign Affairs Advisor

The North Pacific
Chipoli, Delegate
Pallaith, Minister of Foreign Affairs

Europeia
Grea Kriopia, President
Ervald, Minister of Foreign Affairs

Balder
Dragonian Kazaman, King
Millenhaal, Statsminister
Last edited by Varanius on Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Belleroph wrote:We have Vara, a fucking shortsighted, self centered, selfish prick as the Delegate of The West Pacific
Sedgistan wrote:Custom forum titles have been applied to the winners. Vara's is big.
Haymarket Riot wrote:Vara is effectively the weapon of a political machine
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Haymarket Riot
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:27 pm

Man, you mean the false narrative I was fed looped back around to your DMs? Shocker!

Fun fact: no evidence ever surfaced of LWU committing the subversion you described, which we asked you for on terms that we would terminate the treaty. Seems none ever popped up, but that's alright. Have your narrative, my actions speak louder than my words here, as yours do.

We only ever called for Dali to replace Bran, and that's a fact.
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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:28 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:Fun fact: no evidence ever surfaced of LWU committing the subversion you described

My sister in Christ there is a screenshot where Jo is lobbying Dilber that Lamb should be Delegate

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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:31 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:We only ever called for Dali to replace Bran, and that's a fact.

I also just need to circle back to this. You do not have the right to call for anyone to replace the sitting, legal, community-supported WA Delegate of any region. Period. Thanks for admitting it again, though.

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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:31 pm

Rhaza wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:Fun fact: no evidence ever surfaced of LWU committing the subversion you described

My sister in Christ there is a screenshot where Jo is lobbying Dilber that Lamb should be Delegate
Replied so fast she forgot to read
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Belleroph wrote:We have Vara, a fucking shortsighted, self centered, selfish prick as the Delegate of The West Pacific
Sedgistan wrote:Custom forum titles have been applied to the winners. Vara's is big.
Haymarket Riot wrote:Vara is effectively the weapon of a political machine
Ambroscus Koth wrote:When Vara says "jump", the Gameplay elite ask "how high?"
Pallaith wrote: You preening showboating motherfuckers have just derailed my evening

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Ambroscus Koth
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Postby Ambroscus Koth » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:32 pm

0.5 seconds into Vara being a GCR Delegate and my entire FA agenda for the last 3 years is playing itself out
Patience pays off.

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Nolrem
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Postby Nolrem » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:33 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:
Rhaza wrote:That is irrelevant. Your feelings on the Outback's success, positive or negative are irrelevant to a simple reality, which is that you have no standing to dictate the WA Delegate of another region.

And we didn’t.


Haymarket Riot wrote:We only ever called for Dali to replace Bran, and that's a fact.


Just putting this all in one place
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Haymarket Riot
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:34 pm

Rhaza wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:Fun fact: no evidence ever surfaced of LWU committing the subversion you described

My sister in Christ there is a screenshot where Jo is lobbying Dilber that Lamb should be Delegate

3 days before we approached The Outback as a group? And it's presented along with a list of other options, including Dali.

I was certainly never presented with this evidence as an ally. I'm concerned about that for certain.

I think it's unfortunate that this is the way things have proceeded, but let the die be cast.
I also just need to circle back to this. You do not have the right to call for anyone to replace the sitting, legal, community-supported WA Delegate of any region. Period. Thanks for admitting it again, though.

I have the right to speak my mind. You often call for delegates of other regions to be replaced with impunity, an observation made in private among allies is no matter, especially when this call is made from stakeholders in the region. We have among us stakeholders no more, we certainly absolve ourselves of that duty.
Last edited by Haymarket Riot on Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:35 pm

Nolrem wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:And we didn’t.


Haymarket Riot wrote:We only ever called for Dali to replace Bran, and that's a fact.


Just putting this all in one place

Dictate =/= ask, happy to clarify.
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Nolrem
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Postby Nolrem » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:36 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:
Nolrem wrote:


Just putting this all in one place

Dictate =/= ask, happy to clarify.

ask =/= called for, happy to clarify.
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Haymarket Riot
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:37 pm

Nolrem wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:Dictate =/= ask, happy to clarify.

ask =/= called for, happy to clarify.

Great, then I'll clarify: we asked.
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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:37 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:
Nolrem wrote:ask =/= called for, happy to clarify.

Great, then I'll clarify: we asked.

If I ask you to do something but impose material consequences for your response being a non-submission to my ask, that's called duress.

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Doge Republics
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Postby Doge Republics » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:39 pm

You know the world's gone to shit when you can't even make an ultimatum to your supposed allies for regime change in your mutual ally

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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:40 pm

Image

Official Statement from The Grey Wardens

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We applaud the commitment to sovereign rule within The Outback, as we did in The Plains of Perdition.
Last edited by Tim-Opolis on Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Haymarket Riot
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:41 pm

Rhaza wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:Great, then I'll clarify: we asked.

If I ask you to do something but impose material consequences for your response being a non-submission to my ask, that's called duress.

We were going to withdraw troop with Bran's (weeks' prior consent) regardless, you know this. We merely joined on the statement, parties involved know this. That you've forgotten given your wit and memory surprises me, sir.

There was no possible world in which the Augustin Alliance would have remained in the Outback. We were already planning on withdrawing and were merely being courteous by notifying them beforehand. We can apologize about approach, to the Outback if they want, not to the NSGP forum most certainly, where it's most inappropriate.
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Flamme the Great Mage wrote:Just as fascists deceive humankind with words, you must use your praxis to defeat fascists
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GA 742 | GA 748 | GA 762 | GA 765 | GA 772 | GA 776 | GA 795 | GA 796 | GA 798 | GA 800 | GA 805 |GA 807
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Sensoria
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Postby Sensoria » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:43 pm

Today, it's become very clear which regions are reliable friends and allies to the Outback. The regions that have stepped in to support us in our time of need are greatly appreciated. Have no doubt: we will remember who our friends are, and we will be good friends to you.
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Rhaza
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Postby Rhaza » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:44 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:
Rhaza wrote:If I ask you to do something but impose material consequences for your response being a non-submission to my ask, that's called duress.

We were going to withdraw troop with Bran's (weeks' prior consent) regardless, you know this. We merely joined on the statement, parties involved know this. That you've forgotten given your wit and memory surprises me, sir.

There was no possible world in which the Augustin Alliance would have remained in the Outback. We were already planning on withdrawing and were merely being courteous by notifying them beforehand. We can apologize about approach, to the Outback if they want, not to the NSGP forum most certainly, where it's most inappropriate.

Could you explain to me how a statement decrying the WA Delegate of the Outback with vague accusations (which are completely unsubstantiated) in public is appropriate, but apologizing for your conduct is not?

The issue is not that the AA had to leave pilers wise. Walkabout was never hostile as to the AA having to leave on a timetable. The issue, through and through, is your participation in an attempt to illegitimately displace the WA Delegate of a GCR. It is noted.

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Ostrovskiy
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Postby Ostrovskiy » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:45 pm

TFW you have to engage with someone completely and utterly destroying any argument you had (you could just cut your losses, stop looking like a fool, and stop yapping)

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Notanam
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Postby Notanam » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:47 pm

gameplay forums is now a family court and apparently a custody battle is on the docket
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Postby The Ambis » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:47 pm

Haymarket Riot wrote:We merely joined on the statement, parties involved know this.

Question from the peanut gallery:

If you merely joined, why are you the only one saying anything?

Second question:

Is this another example of "whoops forgot to read the thing I signed mb guys"

Cause the backtracking is really funny.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:48 pm

:?
Haymarket Riot wrote:There was no possible world in which the Augustin Alliance would have remained in the Outback. We were already planning on withdrawing and were merely being courteous by notifying them beforehand. We can apologize about approach, to the Outback if they want, not to the NSGP forum most certainly, where it's most inappropriate.
So the Augustin Alliance was, regardless of if we complied with the ultimatum, not going to continue to support the Outback anyway. So you attempted to extort your allies in the West, who have tirelessly supported you time and time again, who spent months piling in Dawn and Narnia at the AA’s request, who pushed for AA commends with all of our allies long before the AA had the connections to do so themselves, who crushed a two decade defender’s commend because the author said something about Emi we found distasteful, and who has repeatedly and flagrantly violated our GA voting policy to support new AA authors, for nothing? Your decisions were made before you came to us, and you only participated in the attempt for the sake of it? Love of the game? I thought what TWP has done for the AA meant more to you guys. I really did.
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Belleroph wrote:We have Vara, a fucking shortsighted, self centered, selfish prick as the Delegate of The West Pacific
Sedgistan wrote:Custom forum titles have been applied to the winners. Vara's is big.
Haymarket Riot wrote:Vara is effectively the weapon of a political machine
Ambroscus Koth wrote:When Vara says "jump", the Gameplay elite ask "how high?"
Pallaith wrote: You preening showboating motherfuckers have just derailed my evening

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Wauka Mountain
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Postby Wauka Mountain » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:48 pm

To be abundantly clear,

The Outback has nothing against Lamb and we are thankful for all the work that Lamb did put into the region. We appreciate the effort that Lamb put into the region, and he did help keep us afloat during a time of trouble.

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Haymarket Riot
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Postby Haymarket Riot » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:51 pm

Varanius wrote::?
Haymarket Riot wrote:There was no possible world in which the Augustin Alliance would have remained in the Outback. We were already planning on withdrawing and were merely being courteous by notifying them beforehand. We can apologize about approach, to the Outback if they want, not to the NSGP forum most certainly, where it's most inappropriate.
So the Augustin Alliance was, regardless of if we complied with the ultimatum, not going to continue to support the Outback anyway. So you attempted to extort your allies in the West, who have tirelessly supported you time and time again, who spent months piling in Dawn and Narnia at the AA’s request, who pushed for AA commends with all of our allies long before the AA had the connections to do so themselves, who crushed a two decade defender’s commend because the author said something about Emi we found distasteful, and who has repeatedly and flagrantly violated our GA voting policy to support new AA authors, for nothing? Your decisions were made before you came to us, and you only participated in the attempt for the sake of it? Love of the game? I thought what TWP has done for the AA meant more to you guys. I really did.

Is that how you see our friendship? A series of exchanges, not a bond? Very well, I'm disappointed, but as it were.

We did not extort you. Your characterization of us as doing so is noted. If you proceed further, we will abide the outcome.
The Butch Demon Slayers of Haymarket Riot | IC: President Jolene J. Jefferson | Commended by SC#535.
GA Secretariat (10/13/24 - 05/25/25)||Issues Editor (07/30/25 - 09/29/26)||Forum Mod (08/06/25 - 09/29/26)||Game Mod (02/11/26 - 09/29/26)
Flamme the Great Mage wrote:Just as fascists deceive humankind with words, you must use your praxis to defeat fascists
SC 228 | SC 523 | SC 524 | SC 527 | SC 559 | SC 562
GA 742 | GA 748 | GA 762 | GA 765 | GA 772 | GA 776 | GA 795 | GA 796 | GA 798 | GA 800 | GA 805 |GA 807
Issue 1682 | Issue 1751 | Issue 1786 | Issue 1794 | Issue 1820 | Issue 1831 | Issue 1854

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The Ever-Wanderer
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Posts: 82
Founded: May 13, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Ever-Wanderer » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:51 pm

Rhaza wrote:
Haymarket Riot wrote:We only ever called for Dali to replace Bran, and that's a fact.

I also just need to circle back to this. You do not have the right to call for anyone to replace the sitting, legal, community-supported WA Delegate of any region. Period. Thanks for admitting it again, though.


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By reading this, you forfeit your soul to The Brotherhood of Malice, c/o The Ever-Wanderer, upon your death natural or unnatural.

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ThaT pErSOn
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Posts: 68
Founded: Mar 29, 2025
Ex-Nation

Postby ThaT pErSOn » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:52 pm

silly situation, can’t feel bad for either side. So the "Rebuttal Regarding the Outback" group (henceforth called Rebutt) attempted to share their influence of the Outback with JAG and it didn’t pan out. Rebutt demands an apology from JAG and JAG says no. I am saddened to see that diplomacy didnt work but not surprised. why would anyone take sides in this? both sides are just trying to dig as many imperialist fingers into the Outback as they can. Same case as JAG, not bad guys but not good guys either

Notanam wrote:gameplay forums is now a family court and apparently a custody battle is on the docket


preach preach preach!
become one of Th0se Pe0ple !

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