The One Stop Shop for Your Lazarus Scandal Needs!

[Dysmastan]

I still find it hard to believe my region has it's own Megathread..

[Fauxia]

I don’t really think of the Delegate position as elected, as endos aren’t completely democratic anyway

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional electon, before all this started?

I don’t actually know. Maybe. Probably. Doesn’t change that that doesn’t technically elect the Delegate position

[Aclion]

I don’t really think of the Delegate position as elected, as endos aren’t completely democratic anyway

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional election, before all this started?

Originally yes, this would be comparable to Donald Trump reacting to rumors of Russian influence by purging the election rolls of democrats, making millions of Russians citizens, and passing a new constitution with this new electorate which suspended presidential elections; then someone saying that he was originally elected so it's all democratic.

[Mostly Benevolent Tyranny]

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional election, before all this started?

Originally yes, this would be comparable to Donald Trump reacting to rumors of Russian influence by purging the election rolls of democrats, making millions of Russians citizens, and passing a new constitution with this new electorate which suspended presidential elections; then someone saying that he was originally elected so it's all democratic.

That's a load of garbage. If you're going to use metaphors, pick good ones please.

[Fauxia]

Originally yes, this would be comparable to Donald Trump reacting to rumors of Russian influence by purging the election rolls of democrats, making millions of Russians citizens, and passing a new constitution with this new electorate which suspended presidential elections; then someone saying that he was originally elected so it's all democratic.

That's a load of garbage. If you're going to use metaphors, pick good ones please.

I agree here. Remember Funk is the original accuser of coup, unlike Trump

[Aclion]

That's a load of garbage. If you're going to use metaphors, pick good ones please.

rood

That's a load of garbage. If you're going to use metaphors, pick good ones please.

I agree here. Remember Funk is the original accuser of coup, unlike Trump

viewtopic.php?p=32155100#p32155100

[Fauxia]

That's a load of garbage. If you're going to use metaphors, pick good ones please.

rood

I agree here. Remember Funk is the original accuser of coup, unlike Trump

viewtopic.php?p=32155100#p32155100

Oh true. I forgot about that

[Ikania]

We contend that this stuff was actually highly illegal

But not illegal enough to ever press charges, apparently.

We literally got together and put out a statement proclaiming that the stuff going on was wrong. Pressing charges would be useless because the court was paralyzed at the time as a result of your regime's illegal manipulation of the electoral system.

[Kylia Quilor]

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional election, before all this started?

Originally yes, this would be comparable to Donald Trump reacting to rumors of Russian influence by purging the election rolls of democrats, making millions of Russians citizens, and passing a new constitution with this new electorate which suspended presidential elections; then someone saying that he was originally elected so it's all democratic.

I was talking about Fauxia's point about the Delegate position not being an elected one because (as I agree with him) endos don't really count as democratic votes.

[Catalyse]

I don’t really think of the Delegate position as elected, as endos aren’t completely democratic anyway

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional electon, before all this started?

I'd be surprised if someone who doesn't consider endorsements completely democratic would view the elections held offsite by a small portion of the regional population as trully democratic either.

[Kylia Quilor]

Yes, but wasn't Funk elected by the forum government in a traditional electon, before all this started?

I'd be surprised if someone who doesn't consider endorsements completely democratic would view the elections held offsite by a small portion of the regional population as trully democratic either.

I consider forum governments superior to "onsite government". Its an election held by people who actually are invested in the community. The actual citizens of the community are voting on their government.

Endorsements are not votes because they do not involve meaningful elections, meaningful exchanges of ideas and are not given by most people with any real articulation of true support or ideas.

[Killer Kitty]

Pressing charges would be useless because the court was paralyzed at the time as a result of your regime's illegal manipulation of the electoral system.

Utterly deceptive twaddle-speak.

The Court was "paralyzed" because Omega was recusing himself on every case and your side refused to recognize the results of an election that your "La Resistance" lost, proclaiming that the only possible way your side could lose was some sort of un-provable vote manipulation. Very egotistical, if you ask me.

Funk did nothing illegal, that's why no one pressed charges. Retconning your reasoning after the fact might fool people unaware of the truth, Ike, but you can only hide what really happened for so long before people find out.

[Ikania]

Pressing charges would be useless because the court was paralyzed at the time as a result of your regime's illegal manipulation of the electoral system.

Utterly deceptive twaddle-speak.

The Court was "paralyzed" because Omega was recusing himself on every case and your side refused to recognize the results of an election that your "La Resistance" lost, proclaiming that the only possible way your side could lose was some sort of un-provable vote manipulation. Very egotistical, if you ask me.

Funk did nothing illegal, that's why no one pressed charges. Retconning your reasoning after the fact might fool people unaware of the truth, Ike, but you can only hide what really happened for so long before people find out.

Except it's totally illegal. As we said here, in the petition signed by 20 members of the community:

1. The confirmation of Killer Kitty (Evil Wolf) as Prelate was subject to corruption through the illegal voting of new citizens accepted during the voting period.

2. The Elections Act states that "A citizen whose application was accepted during a regular or special election cycle is unable to cast a vote in said election".

3. If the confirmation of Prelates meets the definition of an election, then the newcomer votes which decided the confirmation for Killer Kitty and against Church Of Satan are invalid, and Funkadelia has misused his power as Elections Commissioner to allow the vote to go through. Furthermore, the Deputy Convenors Tom and The13th were not legally entitled to administer such an election, therefore the votes on Killer Kitty and Church Of Satan are doubly illegal.

4. If the confirmation does not meet the definition of an election, instead being a simple Cosmic Council vote, then the confirmations of Prelates Adytus and Omega are then invalid because the Sovereign illegitimately administered the voting in place of the Convenor. Therefore, the only legal Prelate could be Killer Kitty, and new Prelates must be nominated.

5. The only kinds of elections specified to exist in the Celestial Mandate are regular elections and special elections; contrary to some claims, the confirmation of Prelates can therefore only exist as one of the two, and thus it makes the allowance of newcomers' votes in the confirmations of Killer Kitty and Church Of Satan invalid.

6. The confirmation, by all means, seems to meet the legal definition of an election, and is therefore subject to all the aforementioned discrepancies.

7. The Celestial Being has, in his constitutional authority, refused to grant assent to the confirmation of Killer Kitty as Prelate. This is entirely within his powers to do so, and the Sovereign's claims otherwise directly contradict the Constitution, which states that assent is granted at the Being's discretion.

8. The continued occupation of the office of Prelate by Killer Kitty is thus illegal, as are all of his decisions in the capacity of the office. The criminal inquiry launched into the activities of former Celestial Being Amerion is, therefore, invalid.

[Kylia Quilor]

EDIT: Nevermind, misread the post.

[Killer Kitty]

Doesn't your entire argument then hinge on the question of if the confirmation of prelates really counts as an election?

Yup. Ike can claim it was illegal, but the Courts never ruled on it, prevented from doing so by Ike's own side.

Sorry Ike, but mob rule doesn't determine legality.

[Ikania]

Doesn't your entire argument then hinge on the question of if the confirmation of prelates really counts as an election?

Yup. Ike can claim it was illegal, but the Courts never ruled on it, prevented from doing so by Ike's own side.

Sorry Ike, but mob rule doesn't determine legality.

The court didn't rule because the court couldn't rule. With no assent to illegal nominations given by the Celestial Being, the court was paralyzed, entirely as a result of the abuse of power committed by Funkadelia in his illegal administering of elections. The following recusals were absolutely necessary in order to uphold the legitimacy of the court and the sanctity of the law.

[Killer Kitty]

The court didn't rule because the court couldn't rule. With no assent to illegal nominations given by the Celestial Being, the court was paralyzed, entirely as a result of the abuse of power committed by Funkadelia in his illegal administering of elections.

You keep throwing around the term "illegal" but we've already established that there is no legal backing for you to make that claim. So you're pretty much just falling back on "but look at all these people that we got to sign this statement!"

Your side had far more to gain by paralyzing the Court than Funk ever did. It stopped possible rulings your side didn't like, it would effectively end the Amerion trial that La Resistance opposed because he was one of the boys in the club, and it served to muddle the legal waters for ages, throwing any action, however legal, that anyone opposed into legal uncertainty.

Funk didn't paralyze the Courts, Ike. You and "La Resistance" did and have been playing it for political gain ever since.

[Reploid Productions]

Funk didn't paralyze the Courts, Ike. You and "La Resistance" did and have been playing it for political gain ever since.

*glances at the WA endo ranking for Lazarus* Urm... is "gain" really the right term to be using here? Watching from the outside, I'm not sure they've managed to gain much of anything out of their efforts.

[Davelands]

Funk didn't paralyze the Courts, Ike. You and "La Resistance" did and have been playing it for political gain ever since.

*glances at the WA endo ranking for Lazarus* Urm... is "gain" really the right term to be using here? Watching from the outside, I'm not sure they've managed to gain much of anything out of their efforts.

Since the one small push on September 10, the endo gap hasn't moved significantly and has slightly crept up in Funk's favor.
If you can't get any traction in a month it is essentially a dead issue in the region except among those who can not accept it.

[Kylia Quilor]

Hey, so, at the risk of starting a sh*tstorm, what's the status of the Resistance? Is your government continuing to function as government in exile? Have you guys decided to set up shop in a new region and start recruiting? What's going on? You claimed to be willing to keep the fight going forever...

[Ikania]

Hey, so, at the risk of starting a sh*tstorm, what's the status of the Resistance? Is your government continuing to function as government in exile? Have you guys decided to set up shop in a new region and start recruiting? What's going on? You claimed to be willing to keep the fight going forever...

Still am. Simple truth is there's been a lull. People who couldn't afford to stay committed to an underdog movement have toned down their activity, and the existing government has shown 0 goodwill and no willingness to reach a solution, content instead to sit with their empty husk of a region. Things are still status quo.

[Kylia Quilor]

Having a lull kind of undermines the notion of fighting till the end. I thought your whole idea was none of you would give up until you've won.

[Ikania]

Having a lull kind of undermines the notion of fighting till the end. I thought your whole idea was none of you would give up until you've won.

I can't give you an inspired speech right here or boastful rhetoric to pointedly refute the idea that there's simply not much going on. You'd probably be right. I guess I can only offer a rather Trumpian response: I guess we'll see, won't we?

[Kylia Quilor]

You'll keep us in suspense?

[Funkadelia]

Hey, so, at the risk of starting a sh*tstorm, what's the status of the Resistance? Is your government continuing to function as government in exile? Have you guys decided to set up shop in a new region and start recruiting? What's going on? You claimed to be willing to keep the fight going forever...

Still am. Simple truth is there's been a lull. People who couldn't afford to stay committed to an underdog movement have toned down their activity, and the existing government has shown 0 goodwill and no willingness to reach a solution, content instead to sit with their empty husk of a region. Things are still status quo.

There is no need to have goodwill toward a group of nations seeking to assert their own will against the region. The fact that we're still talking about this is a bit ridiculous, although I suppose I shouldn't really expect someone like you to be able to know when to go lick their wounds. Have fun in Nesapo.