Lazarus Free Press: "Funk is losing," says long-time native

[Funkadelia]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, judging by that his endos would be unchanged.

It's just a small snip of the activity feed to prove a point. I didn't think I'd really have to explain it to you.

[Aclion]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, judging by that his endos would be unchanged.

It's just a small snip of the activity feed to prove a point. I didn't think I'd really have to explain it to you.

The only point that proves is that Cours endocount is stable barring you targeting his endorsers.

[Cormactopia Prime]

It's just a small snip of the activity feed to prove a point. I didn't think I'd really have to explain it to you.

The only point that proves is that Cours endocount is stable barring you targeting his endorsers.

And the endorsers being ejected and banned are obvious puppets entering the region to endorse a nation that is already over the endorsement cap.

[Funkadelia]

The only point that proves is that Cours endocount is stable barring you targeting his endorsers.

And the endorsers being ejected and banned are obvious puppets entering the region to endorse a nation that is already over the endorsement cap.

Precisely, including several TSP puppets that are illegally moving into Lazarus to do so.

[Unibot III]

And the endorsers being ejected and banned are obvious puppets entering the region to endorse a nation that is already over the endorsement cap.

Precisely, including several TSP puppets that are illegally moving into Lazarus to do so.

Your endorsement margin is dropping - and now you're claiming foreign military opposition and copy and pasting out of context Activity feeds. <Wow, aren't we in trouble...?>

[RiderSyl]

Precisely, including several TSP puppets that are illegally moving into Lazarus to do so.

Your endorsement margin is dropping - and now you're claiming foreign military opposition and copy and pasting out of context Activity feeds. <Wow, aren't we in trouble...?>

I now have a legitimate reason for despising what you've done, Funk.

It's made me agree with Unibot.

[Killer Kitty]

Your endorsement margin is dropping - and now you're claiming foreign military opposition and copy and pasting out of context Activity feeds. <Wow, aren't we in trouble...?>

We really don't need to claim it, anyone with eyes can just observe it. They can see TSP's military hitting us on updates, jumping in from Versailles Isle, the South Pacific Special Forces' Official Jump Point, as their WFE proudly proclaims. Here's a little excerpt of their recent activities:

11 hours ago: Tarrinian relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: The Parisian Islands relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: The Cookie Man relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Corsinthia relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: United Green States relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: THE 111 relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Eleanoorr relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Sakuya Izayoi relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Soten relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Tarrinian relocated from Wintreath to Versailles Isle.
11 hours ago: Tesla-land relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Sangoliaso relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: QC1 relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: New Naoi relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Kazineone I relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Closedoff relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: Barrelene relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.
11 hours ago: A Sparkly relocated from Versailles Isle to Lazarus.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're trying an attrition run, which might work if Lazarus was some UCR Podunk with 3 nations and not, you know, a GCR. Still, there you go, Unibot, proof that foreign troops are involved in the "Resistance".

And that The South Pacific is in direct violation of the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus, to boot.

[Roavin]

And that The South Pacific is in direct violation of the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus, to boot.

More like taking it seriously. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RiderSyl]

<snip>

Oh, okay. I suppose TSP has taken an official military stance. Sucks for y'all.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're trying an attrition run, which might work if Lazarus was some UCR Podunk with 3 nations and not, you know, a GCR.

Yup, GCRs have the benefit of getting filled with newly created nations all the time, so that can never work.

And that The South Pacific is in direct violation of the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus, to boot.

The one they have with the Celestial Union of Lazarus that's in exile? I don't think they're in violation of that one, for some odd reason

[Killer Kitty]

And that The South Pacific is in direct violation of the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus, to boot.

More like taking it seriously. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh? Let's look at the treaty and go through the check boxes, shall we?

Article I. Mutual Recognition of Government Legitimacy.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty recognize the government of each region, based upon its constitutions and laws, as legitimate, and will not extend that recognition to any government that comes to power through means not proscribed by law, which shall be determined by the legitimate government in question.

Endorsed and recognized a "Government in Exile" which did not come to power through any proscribed laws or means.

That's one treaty violation.

Article II. Affirmation of Non-Aggression.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty reaffirm their pact of non-aggression.

Broke the non-aggression clause and, in general, sent troops into the region.

That's two treaty violations.

Section 2. Both parties will refrain from engaging in any decisive and purposeful action that will undermine the regional security of either party.

Sent troops into the region to expressly undermine the security of the region.

That's three treaty violations.

Section 3. Both parties agree to assist each other in responding to an internal coup d'etat, unless relieved of duty by mutual agreement.

Refused to assist with the internal coup against the elected government and instead supported the coup side with troops and public recognition.

That's four treaty violations. Ah-ha-ha.

With that being said, Lazarus is will within her rights to invoke Section 9 of the treaty, which states:

Article IX. Suspension of Terms and Termination of the Treaty.

Section 1. Either party may suspend the terms of the treaty, if the other party has materially breached its terms, until such a time that both parties peacefully settle the dispute and adopt a memorandum of understanding that the treaty is again in force.

Section 2. Either party may terminate the treaty with five days notice, posted publicly in the forum of deposit in both regions, after which the terms of treaty are no longer binding on either party.

TSP can't claim to be "enforcing" the treaty if it's been suspended, now can they?

[Unibot III]

You don't have the legitimate authority to revoke the treaty, Evil Wolf. That's kinda the point. You don't have the authority to do anything. You're not the legitimate government of Lazarus. The treaty compels its allies, the South Pacific, to take material action to assist the legitimate government in responding to the internal coup.

[Killer Kitty]

You don't have the legitimate authority to revoke the treaty, Evil Wolf. That's kinda the point. You don't have the authority to do anything. You're not the legitimate government of Lazarus. The treaty compels its allies, the South Pacific, to take material action to assist the legitimate government in responding to the internal coup.

So now TSP is denying that the elected government of Lazarus is legitimate and instead recognizes the authority of a non-elected government based in a region that isn't even Lazarus and says the treaty is really with them and not the Government of Lazarus?

...I don't see the legal basis for that claim in the Treaty. Care to point out the clauses for me?

[RiderSyl]

TSP can't claim to be "enforcing" the treaty if it's been revoked, now can they?

They can. To TSP, you and yours are the coup side.

You're running up to a region that believes Funk, Lamb, you were the internal coup, that believes the Celestial Union is the legitimate government, and believes that Funk's new Monarchy is a sham, and shouting "Hey, you violated the treaty! It's over!"

What do you think you're accomplishing, EW? Because I can tell you what you actually are. Nothing.

[The NAtion OF Froggy]

TSP can't claim to be "enforcing" the treaty if it's been revoked, now can they?

They can. To TSP, you and yours are the coup side.

You're running up to a region that believes Funk, Lamb, you were the internal coup, that believes the Celestial Union is the legitimate government, and believes that Funk's new Monarchy is a sham, and shouting "Hey, you violated the treaty! It's over!"

What do you think you're accomplishing, EW? Because I can tell you what you actually are. Nothing.

Thanks. I was actually goimg to say this. Thank you.

Monarchy. Being seen as not a real king... Europe is calling, history being our guide most of the time this lead to war.. Currently we are in a war... Historys famous turnabout.

[Killer Kitty]

TSP can't claim to be "enforcing" the treaty if it's been revoked, now can they?

They can. To TSP, you and yours are the coup side.

You're running up to a region that believes Funk, Lamb, you were the internal coup, that believes the Celestial Union is the legitimate government, and believes that Funk's new Monarchy is a sham, and shouting "Hey, you violated the treaty! It's over!"

What do you think you're accomplishing, EW? Because I can tell you what you actually are. Nothing.

Well what's the point of the treaty if TSP is just going to ignore it? It's pretty obvious this is a treaty violation and it's very clear that despite the opposition claiming otherwise, there are foreign troops supporting them, and those foreigners are even oath breakers, having reneged on their word to attack us.

The South Pacific don't get to just ignore the Treaty because it doesn't suit them. That's not how Treaties work. And the opposition doesn't get to claim they're a native movement when they have the open military support of TSP.

[RiderSyl]

They don't get to just ignore the Treaty because it doesn't suit them. That's not how Treaties work.

...I don't see the legal basis for that claim in the Treaty. Care to point out the clauses for me?

Section 3. Both parties agree to assist each other in responding to an internal coup d'etat, unless relieved of duty by mutual agreement.

coup d'é·tat (ko͞o′ dā-tä′)
n. pl. coups d'état (ko͞o′) or coup d'états (dā-täz′)
The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority.

Perpetrators of a coup can be elected ones. Funk, Lamb, and you are certainly a small group of persons. TSP perceived your supposed security crackdown as an internal coup d'etat and is enforcing the treaty with the Celestial Union of Lazarus. With legal basis.

[Ikania]

You don't have the legitimate authority to revoke the treaty, Evil Wolf. That's kinda the point. You don't have the authority to do anything. You're not the legitimate government of Lazarus. The treaty compels its allies, the South Pacific, to take material action to assist the legitimate government in responding to the internal coup.

So now TSP is denying that the elected government of Lazarus is legitimate and instead recognizes the authority of a non-elected government based in a region that isn't even Lazarus and says the treaty is really with them and not the Government of Lazarus?

...I don't see the legal basis for that claim in the Treaty. Care to point out the clauses for me?

On a statistical basis, three elected Guardians were banned, as well as the elected Vice Delegate, the elected Head of State, two elected Ministers and the elected Judge. The 'Undead Dominion' came about by illegally disenfranchising the vast majority of active voters (because the Mandate gives you no right to strip the people you've illegally charged of their right to post on the forum and vote in the council) and violating the region's constitution to the point where it became meaningless. The 'proscribed laws and means' are present in the legitimacy of our government as per the Mandate, which we have strived to follow to the letter. See the part where it says "based upon its constitutions and laws, as legitimate"? Yeah, we're that government.

[Glen-Rhodes]

You don't have the legitimate authority to revoke the treaty, Evil Wolf. That's kinda the point. You don't have the authority to do anything. You're not the legitimate government of Lazarus. The treaty compels its allies, the South Pacific, to take material action to assist the legitimate government in responding to the internal coup.

So now TSP is denying that the elected government of Lazarus is legitimate and instead recognizes the authority of a non-elected government based in a region that isn't even Lazarus and says the treaty is really with them and not the Government of Lazarus?

...I don't see the legal basis for that claim in the Treaty. Care to point out the clauses for me?

I mean, that's exactly what TSP's Cabinet did:

The actions of Delegate Funkadelia and his faction, namely the extra-judicial and illegal removal as well as defamation of their political opponents, is as unambiguous an example of an illegal coup as it is possible to imagine. Claims to the contrary are nothing but the most transparent attempts at propaganda to disguise this, and no informed and objective individual could conclude otherwise. The "Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between The South Pacific and Lazarus" is an alliance between the legitimate governments of the South Pacific and Lazarus; the term legitimate can no longer be applied to the regime of Funkadelia for the reasons stated above. The South Pacific does not recognize the government of Funkadelia instated at this last minor update, and pledge our support for the government-in-exile as per Article IV Section 3 of our mutual treaty.

I wrote the treaty. I should know what it means. The Cabinet is exactly right that the treaty requires recognizing only the legitimate regime in Lazarus. And legitimacy is determined by following the rule of law. You may protest against charges that you, Lamb, and most of all Funk, have become lawless. But the beautiful thing about diplomacy is that it takes two to tango. TSP gets a say in your legitimacy, too. We didn't sign a treaty with LWU. It stands to reason that we won't recognize an illegitimate regime that planned to seize power illegally by getting LWU to rig a judicial confirmation. (And, of course, is using LWU support in the legislature to rubberstamp every anti-democratic action you 3 have taken since...)

Nah, we repealed our treaty with LWU years and years ago, because we knew what a shady, corrupt, and dishonorable organization it was.

Anyways, after ramming through your illegitimate constitution (giving supreme authority to Funk), you illegitimate regime has fundamentally altered the government of Lazarus anyways. So unless you can get TSP to sign an MOU, as required by Article 1.2 of the treaty, the provisions of the treaty don't apply to this radically new government either way. (Again, I wrote the treaty, and that part was a particular pet project of mine, you're welcome!)

[Killer Kitty]

Calling the Government of Lazarus "LWU" doesn't suddenly valid your point, and I'm confused as to why you think this is a legitimate line of logic.

Unless you have evidence of your assertions, which you and I both know you don't, you have no legal grounds to stand on other than pure rhetoric.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Calling the Government of Lazarus "LWU" doesn't suddenly valid your point, and I'm confused as to why you think this is a legitimate line of logic.

Unless you have evidence of your assertions, which you and I both know you don't, you have no legal grounds to stand on other than pure rhetoric.

I'm not the one making the decision here either way, but not a single person in this forum really believes the BS you keep posting about Laz. We know a bunch of LWUers are there propping up the government you're now a part of. The evidence is there for everybody to see.

Again, diplomacy takes two to tango. You can't hamstring TSP into supporting your obvious coup. And that fact that it's LWU propping it all up only makes that an even more ridiculous thing to think about.

And yet again, you guys just rammed through a massive constitutional change, completely reimagining the entire regime. So no matter what propaganda you want to post, your own actions make all of it moot. The treaty requires a memorandum of understanding when there's that kind of massive change. Good luck getting that from TSP.

[Solorni]

Given the logs, what people like GR say is irrelevant. I will wait to see what TGW has to say on behalf of TSP.

[Altheriol]

Given the logs, what people like GR say is irrelevant. I will wait to see what TGW has to say on behalf of TSP.

If their opinion matters so much, have you tried asking them?

[Altmoras]

Given the logs, what people like GR say is irrelevant. I will wait to see what TGW has to say on behalf of TSP.

If their opinion matters so much, have you tried asking them?

Don't take the bait.

[Solorni]

Given the logs, what people like GR say is irrelevant. I will wait to see what TGW has to say on behalf of TSP.

If their opinion matters so much, have you tried asking them?

Not yet, but I hope to. I have been very busy with school and work lately.

[Cormactopia Prime]

<snip>

It's so odd, and frankly disturbing, to see a Guardian of Osiris taking the side of the "resistance" and its foreign backers here. What happened to the Syl who supported the April 2016 transitional government in Osiris against a "resistance" with equally if not more valid complaints, and who disliked the South Pacific so much that you pushed for termination of relations with the South Pacific when Neo Kervoskia and I didn't want to do it?

If that's not the Syl we have anymore, and instead we have a Syl who prefers to side with the South Pacific and the Grey Wardens against the sovereignty of Lazarus, then perhaps the Syl we now have is not a Syl who should continue being a Guardian of Osiris. Food for thought.