Europeian Embassy - In Solidarity

[Warden Roavin]

I would like to point out that Common-Sense Politics altogether ignored my request for any indications that his claims are true.

[Tim-Opolis]

I would like to point out that Common-Sense Politics altogether ignored my request for any indications that his claims are true.

The problem with peddling fake news is you can't uphold the lies once asked about it.

I'm sure we'll get a blustering speech full of rhetoric soon.

[Solorni]

I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".

[Consular]

It seems like TGW is the new UDL; warts and all.

Some of you certainly seem to be trying desperately to make that a thing, but it's really not.

[Aexnidaral]

I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".

Preach.

[Vaculatestar64]

I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".

FAKE NEWS!

[Brunhizzle]

I would like to point out that Common-Sense Politics altogether ignored my request for any indications that his claims are true.

The problem with peddling fake news is you can't uphold the lies once asked about it.

I'm sure we'll get a blustering speech full of rhetoric soon.

Or, you know, he got offline six hours ago and hasn't had the opportunity to be online since.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=40724

[Isaris]

Look at who's getting the most benefit here? The New Pacific Order.

I would say they're influencing Europeia at this moment so that they can lure The South Pacific to their side. At that point, The West Pacific, The East Pacific, the South Pacific, and Balder would be on their side, not including Lazarus, which I'm currently not exactly sure if the Undead Dominion is really ok with the NPO. However, that would make The North Pacific, the NPO's greatest enemy, along with Osiris, be the only major GCRs that are actually against/unfriendly to the NPO.

The NPO is manipulating Europeia?

That is even sillier than Glen's Rahlspiracy in the Lazarus mess.

Glen's Rahlspiracy is actually not silly at all. Get woke already, Kylia.

[Kylia Quilor]

The NPO is manipulating Europeia?

That is even sillier than Glen's Rahlspiracy in the Lazarus mess.

Glen's Rahlspiracy is actually not silly at all. Get woke already, Kylia.

I'm so woke I went back to bed, Izzy.

[Warden Roavin]

The problem with peddling fake news is you can't uphold the lies once asked about it.

I'm sure we'll get a blustering speech full of rhetoric soon.

Or, you know, he got offline six hours ago and hasn't had the opportunity to be online since.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=40724

I'd be sympathetic to that, but between my two posts there was another post by CSP, replying to somebody who posted after myself.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

I'm not happy that Donald Trump's success irl has caused NS politicians to imitate some of his tactics like calling everything that they do not agree with "fake news".

No one is happy with the lies to begin with. All of this is such bologna...

The silliness of the rhetoric just goes to show how pointless this entire conversation is.

[Unibot III]

I see the politics, but not the common sense.

You're better than that.

If you recall the precise text of the Euro-TSP treaty, you'll note it was specifically designed as an anti-FRA, anti-MPA treaty. This shouldn't be surprising, Europeia went as far as to drop treaty negotiations with TRR during Sopo's administration in and around the same time as TSP-Euro treaty was drafted because TNI/LKE was at war with the FRA. Europeia's concern was not the "independence" or sovereign autonomy of game-created regions, it was the strategic containment of perceived political opposition (defenderdom, NPO.)

Of course I recall it. One of the central pillars of Europeia's worldview is the idea that strong bilateral relationships enrich communities and supra-regional alliances and organizations diminish them so, in a way, you're absolutely correct in asserting that it isn't surprising that we would put language like that in a treaty, especially when you consider that you and your associates have been so intent on turning TSP and other game-created communities into your personal play things for so many years. The "perceived political opposition" was surely that but was and is a direct, tangible threat to the "sovereign autonomy of game-created regions". That's a fact, Jack.

That geopolitical strategy still remains at play for Europeia. This isn't about what's good for the South Pacific or any other GCR, this is about what is good for Europeia. Which perhaps shouldn't be surprising since that's the guiding principle of independentism.

What's good for the game community as a whole is good for Europeia. You don't have to believe it, and you assuredly won't, but strong and sovereign GCRs are something we who've paid attention for the last several years care very much about. You, your associates, and your successors however have again and again done your damnedest to undermine it. The guiding principle of INDEPENDENCE is to act in the interests of your community and your friends, rather than in the interest of pseudo-moralistic bullshit.

Thank you for doing me the courtesy of not attempting to contradict me. Your maxim, "what is good for Europeia is good for all GCRs" is revealing and indeed, encapsulates the paternalistic and manipulative attitude that Europeia has always presented to GCRs: "choose us over them; we, and only we know what is good for you."

This isn't about "independence" or "autonomy" or freedom, it's about containment. You're not "Pro-GCR," you're Pro-Euro. In the case of TSP, it should come as no surprise that the motives of Euro-independents who profess self-interest are purely self-interested.

[Cormactopia Prime]

What's good for the game community as a whole is good for Europeia. You don't have to believe it, and you assuredly won't, but strong and sovereign GCRs are something we who've paid attention for the last several years care very much about. You, your associates, and your successors however have again and again done your damnedest to undermine it. The guiding principle of INDEPENDENCE is to act in the interests of your community and your friends, rather than in the interest of pseudo-moralistic bullshit.

Thank you for doing me the courtesy of not attempting to contradict me. Your maxim, "what is good for Europeia is good for all GCRs" is revealing and indeed, encapsulates the paternalistic and manipulative attitude that Europeia has always presented to GCRs: "choose us over them; we, and only we know what is good for you."

This isn't about "independence" or "autonomy" or freedom, it's about containment. You're not "Pro-GCR," you're Pro-Euro. In the case of TSP, it should come as no surprise that the motives of Euro-independents who profess self-interest are purely self-interested.

How did you make the giant leap from what CSP actually said -- "What's good for the game community as a whole is good for Europeia" -- to what you said? He did not, even a little bit, say "what is good for Europeia is good for all GCRs." Rather, he asserted that independence would be good for the entire game community (by which he meant the entire gameplay community, I assume, since independence would have little relevance to other aspects of the game). Because it would be good for the entire game community, it is also good for Europeia, which is part of the game community. He didn't say anything as nefarious as you're making it out to be, and he didn't even mention GCRs specifically.

You literally just made a straw man up out of thin air to attack CSP for something he didn't say. I assume that means you can't counter what he did say.

[Unibot III]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

[Kylia Quilor]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

But that's still not what CSP said.

He said what is good for all of gameplay is good for Europeia - when Gameplay gains, Europeia gains, not the other way around. The statement can't just reordered to have the same meaning.

[Canton Empire]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

But that's still not what CSP said.

He said what is good for all of gameplay is good for Europeia - when Gameplay gains, Europeia gains, not the other way around. The statement can't just reordered to have the same meaning.

Isn't that true of any gameplay Region?

[Cormactopia Prime]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Republicans think republics are best. Monarchists think monarchy is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it. People who favor a particular worldview tend to think it's best. News at 11.

[Kylia Quilor]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.

Its dastardly because it isn't promoting defenderism!

[Canton Empire]

I'm afraid to be the one to tell you this, Cormac, but GCRs are apart of NationStates. If you are claiming to be what is best for NS, you are claiming to be what is best for the GCRs.

That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.

No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.

[Kylia Quilor]

That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.

No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.

Well, then tell that to Unibot and his crowd.

[Canton Empire]

No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.

Well, then tell that to Unibot and his crowd.

But if the entirety of GP were defenders there would be nothing to defend. Defenders wouldn't exist.

Please don't tell me they tried to say that.

[Cormactopia Prime]

That still isn't what he said. What he said is that independence -- not Europeia -- is best for the game community, which includes Europeia. You're making that out to be something diabolical when it's really just par for the course. Defenders think defending is best. Raiders think raiding is best. Francoists think Francoism is best. Independents think independence is best. There isn't anything dastardly about it.

No, there's not, but there's a flawed logic in saying that one sole ideology is "best" for the community. I think the diversity in alignment is what's best for the game community.

I happen to agree with you -- for a variety of reasons, I'm not a proponent of independence -- but that isn't the argument Unibot is making. He doesn't value ideological diversity, and is far less tolerant of it than CSP and most independents are. He aggressively pushes defenderism for everyone.

[Kylia Quilor]

Well, then tell that to Unibot and his crowd.

But if the entirety of GP were defenders there would be nothing to defend. Defenders wouldn't exist.

Please don't tell me they tried to say that.

Defenders like Unibot would love it if they didn't have to defend. They treat defending as a moral call to duty and action.

[Canton Empire]

But if the entirety of GP were defenders there would be nothing to defend. Defenders wouldn't exist.

Please don't tell me they tried to say that.

Defenders like Unibot would love it if they didn't have to defend. They treat defending as a moral call to duty and action.

I suppose that's the RP styling of defending. There's nothing you can do about that.

[Kylia Quilor]

Defenders like Unibot would love it if they didn't have to defend. They treat defending as a moral call to duty and action.

I suppose that's the RP styling of defending. There's nothing you can do about that.

Apart from isolating them, pretty much.

It's not RP styling. Unibot and his ilk have genuinely believed that raiding is a destructive element of the game that shouldn't exist and does major real harm to this game. Dig up some of the discussions from 2012-2013, especially ones that feature people like Eist, Wordy, The Bruce, Ballotonia...