Renegade Islands Alliance | Shizensky's Retirement

[Shizensky]

Region - Regional Forum ~ Discord ~ Constitution

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Regions wishing to establish diplomatic relations with us should register on the regional forum and fill out an application. Our Secretary of State will take a look at it and get back to you as soon as possible. Nations interested in joining us should register on the regional forum and apply for citizenship. If you're interested in joining the Renegade Islands Alliance Special Forces, please state that on your citizenship application. Both processes are fast and easy. For any other inquiries, please message either the founder or delegate of the legitimate government of Renegade Islands Alliance.

[Lolita Queen]

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[Shizensky]

On the 24th of August, RIASF Fleet Admiral Red Dusk's Military Alignment Act was unanimously accepted as law. This act legally defined the Renegade Islands Alliance as a Defender region. On this day we made a promise to use whatever resources available to protect those who could not protect themselves.

On the 7th of September, Osiris severed diplomatic ties to our good friends, The Grey Wardens, after the Wardens carried through on their promise to take offensive measures against raiders. Four days later on the 11th of September, the Kingdom of Great Britain declared war on The Grey Wardens.

On the 13th of September, the Grand Council of the Renegade Islands Alliance issued an executive order to amend the Military Alignment Act. The amendment reads as follows:

"1. In the event of a region with either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates were to become a viable target for the Renegade Islands Alliance Special Forces, the serving Security Officer or the Chief Executive shall have the authority to give orders to move in a hostile manner, without the need for a declaration of war.

2. Should the RIASF capture a raider region with the aforementioned criteria, they shall be granted the ability to defend their holding and move towards efforts to solidify the region as a holding of Renegade Islands Alliance.


3. The efforts of this mission are to be held under the newly kindled ideology that Defender regions should not be limited to reactionary operations, but should strike back at those who willingly impose terror on those who cannot defend themselves."

The Citizen's Congress was given a week to voice their approval or disapproval of the executive order. The referendum ended in favor of the amendment, solidifying its place in regional law. On the 20th of September, the democratic voice of the Renegade Islands Alliance declared that we shall stand with our friends, The Grey Wardens, as we have stood with TITO before them and as we have stood since the founding of the RIA and her Special Forces. We will take the fight to the raider menace. No longer will we allow raiders to dictate when our forces act, and we will no longer fight by the terms set by our enemies. For too long have raiders attacked innocent bystanders with impunity, with some nonsensical understanding that they should not face the very threat they posed to regions for over a decade.

We have seen communities destroyed by raiders and refounded to exist as trophies. We've been attacked by raiders ourselves, we've beaten back their threats and rebuilt when their attacks destroyed over two thirds of our offsite forum. The RIA has always been a dedicated force against the raider menace. We have helped other defender regions and organizations, small and large, to combat raiders at every turn. We have worked with TITO, the FRA, and the UDL at times when those groups resisted working together themselves. We have always been there, helping to lead massive liberations or simply adding an extra endorsement, we have added to the cause.

Our dedication to protecting the defenseless is unwavering. The RIA Special Forces will not back down from the enemy. It is far past the time for Defenders to take a stand and to lead the charge against the raider menace. It's our turn to dictate the terms of battle.

[Luxdonia]

Incredible. Another defender region getting rid of thei "morality" in yheir quest to completely wipe raiderism from doing the same thing that raiders: raid. How can you continue to call yourself a defender region when you are clearly not?

[Deadeye Jack]

ncredible. Another defender region getting rid of thei "morality" in yheir quest to completely wipe raiderism from doing the same thing that raiders: raid. How can you continue to call yourself a defender region when you are clearly not?

95% (maybe even more I'm just pulling a number out of nowhere) of what the Grey Wardens do, and what I expect the RIASF will also be doing, is traditional defender activity: defense and liberation operations. Heck, KGB declared war on TGW because we defended too well against them according to Vac's statement. If occasionally raiding raider regions no longer makes us a defender region in the eyes of some, then so be it. That won't change the fact that TGW, RIASF, and every other defender aligned group will continue to work diligently to help out the regions typically targeted by raider and raider-aligned military organizations.

As Shizensky said, raiders and raider aligned military organizations have in the past been able to operate with impunity due to self-regulation by the defender community at large. Now that there is even a sliver of movement away from that status quo, we have witnessed raider and raider-aligned politicians move quickly to denounce this and loudly.

It should be no surprise, that the people who are complaining the loudest are the ones who would prefer that defenders were an ineffectual force that allowed them to gain victory after victory and on the whole have no interest in contributing to the defender cause.

[Luxdonia]

But if you raid, even in the slightest way, you're not defenders but instead should be classified as independents.

[All Good People]

Incredible. Another defender region getting rid of thei "morality" in yheir quest to completely wipe raiderism from doing the same thing that raiders: raid. How can you continue to call yourself a defender region when you are clearly not?

That's an old debate within the defender community. There have always been those that believe in taking the fight directly to the raiders regions, as opposed to those that believe all raids are wrong. That debate flared up during the transition from the Constitutional ADN to the ADN Reloaded Charter once upon a time. Some members threatened to leave unless the organization maintained it's dedication against striking back at raiders regions.

There was also the Sons of Liberty defender group that targeted raiders holdings. Shiz might remember them too. (Historical note: An ADN official was secretly the leader of the Sons of Liberty).

Just saying, the two ideologies have existed within defenderism since the beginning. It's nothing new.

[The Gipper]

But if you raid, even in the slightest way, you're not defenders but instead should be classified as independents.

That's a silly definition, because that's make The Black Hawks and most raiders independents too.

[Shizensky]

That's a silly definition, because that's make The Black Hawks and most raiders independents too.

What I think he means here is that if someone does not fit into the black and white, they should call themselves independent. So raiders would still be raiders.

That's an old debate within the defender community. There have always been those that believe in taking the fight directly to the raiders regions, as opposed to those that believe all raids are wrong. That debate flared up during the transition from the Constitutional ADN to the ADN Reloaded Charter once upon a time. Some members threatened to leave unless the organization maintained it's dedication against striking back at raiders regions.

There was also the Sons of Liberty defender group that targeted raiders holdings. Shiz might remember them too. (Historical note: An ADN official was secretly the leader of the Sons of Liberty).

Just saying, the two ideologies have existed within defenderism since the beginning. It's nothing new.

Right. It only seems new because, until TGW, nobody really cared. I remember when these debates ended with the "all raids are wrong" crowd promising to defend attacks against raider interests. There are always going to be purists, and we respect their decision to face raiders that way.

As Deadeye Jack stated, 95% of what we do is still going to be traditional defending, that's just how things play out.

Incredible. Another defender region getting rid of thei "morality" in yheir quest to completely wipe raiderism from doing the same thing that raiders: raid. How can you continue to call yourself a defender region when you are clearly not?

Would you argue that TITO should not be classified as Defender? They've never hesitated to move on founderless raider regions. In fact, I'm sure I was personally involved in at least two of their strikes against different DEN bases.

There is no black and white in military gameplay. There are those defenders who have subscribed to that idea, but in over a decade of work that method has proven to be ineffective. As was said before, nearly all of what we're going to be doing is the traditional defender activities people have come to expect, so yes, I think it's absolutely fair that we still call ourselves Defenders. Perhaps my definition of "Defender" is more anti-raider, but the goal is the same. Just like a purist, I want to take the appropriate steps to protect regions who are needlessly threatened by invaders. Being an exclusively reactionary force is not working and will always put Defenders one step behind our counterparts.

[General Knot]

"1. In the event of a region with either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates were to become a viable target for the Renegade Islands Alliance Special Forces, the serving Security Officer or the Chief Executive shall have the authority to give orders to move in a hostile manner, without the need for a declaration of war.

I would ask who shall be appointed as the almighty one to arbitrarily decide what region possesses "either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates", but I don't think I'm going to get a sufficient response. Will it be regions that tag themselves as "invader"? Will it include any and all regions that engage or have engaged in raiding operations, such as all the relevant GCRs? They are perhaps much more viable to move against "in a hostile manner" given their founderless status than compared to, say, The Invaders.

3. The efforts of this mission are to be held under the newly kindled ideology that Defender regions should not be limited to reactionary operations, but should strike back at those who willingly impose terror on those who cannot defend themselves."

This is almost verbatim to Eurosoviets' justification of why invader fora should be destroyed. I approve, to an extent.

[The Gipper]

That's a silly definition, because that's make The Black Hawks and most raiders independents too.

What I think he means here is that if someone does not fit into the black and white, they should call themselves independent. So raiders would still be raiders.

Unless they formed some sort of raider unity, and would defend other raider regions, like The Black Riders after Halc was deleted but before its modbomb. Or any raider region hit by you lot.

Raiders are not black and white either.

[Shizensky]

I would ask who shall be appointed as the almighty one to arbitrarily decide what region possesses "either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates", but I don't think I'm going to get a sufficient response. Will it be regions that tag themselves as "invader"? Will it include any and all regions that engage or have engaged in raiding operations, such as all the relevant GCRs? They are perhaps much more viable to move against "in a hostile manner" given their founderless status than compared to, say, The Invaders.

We're not going to bottle ourselves in by going into any specifics. We know the types of regions we'll be targeting and I don't see a need to be broadcasting that sort of information.

This is almost verbatim to Eurosoviets' justification of why invader fora should be destroyed. I approve, to an extent.

Oh look, you're doing it again.

The RIA does not agree that forum destruction has a place in military gameplay. Even though we have ourselves been on the receiving end of this type of attack at the hands of a former DEN Field Commander, we continue to stand firmly against the use of forum destruction.

Unless they formed some sort of raider unity, and would defend other raider regions, like The Black Riders after Halc was deleted but before its modbomb. Or any raider region hit by you lot.

Raiders are not black and white either.

You're right, of course. The point here is that nothing is black and white, so trying to file people into black and white classifications is pointless.

[Cormactopia II]

I would ask who shall be appointed as the almighty one to arbitrarily decide what region possesses "either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates", but I don't think I'm going to get a sufficient response. Will it be regions that tag themselves as "invader"? Will it include any and all regions that engage or have engaged in raiding operations, such as all the relevant GCRs? They are perhaps much more viable to move against "in a hostile manner" given their founderless status than compared to, say, The Invaders.

We're not going to bottle ourselves in by going into any specifics. We know the types of regions we'll be targeting and I don't see a need to be broadcasting that sort of information.

Perhaps because, interpreting this executive order as broadly as it seems to want to be interpreted, Renegade Islands Alliance has essentially declared de facto war against all but one or two Feeders and Sinkers and a large number of user-created regions. The Pacific, The North Pacific, the South Pacific, The East Pacific, the West Pacific, Balder, and Osiris all have "either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates." Lazarus also has historical ties to raiding of other regions.

So, Shizensky, has Renegade Islands Alliance just declared de facto war against seven or eight Feeders and Sinkers, or not?

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

[Syberis]

We're not going to bottle ourselves in by going into any specifics. We know the types of regions we'll be targeting and I don't see a need to be broadcasting that sort of information.

Perhaps because, interpreting this executive order as broadly as it seems to want to be interpreted, Renegade Islands Alliance has essentially declared de facto war against all but one or two Feeders and Sinkers and a large number of user-created regions. The Pacific, The North Pacific, the South Pacific, The East Pacific, the West Pacific, Balder, and Osiris all have "either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates." Lazarus also has historical ties to raiding of other regions.

So, Shizensky, has Renegade Islands Alliance just declared de facto war against seven or eight Feeders and Sinkers, or not?

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

One could argue that their definition extends to everyone involved in R/D gameplay. Heck, nobody can argue that Defenders and Counter-Raiders don't have "current or historical ties to raiding," as their existence is tied quite closely to raiding. In that they wouldn't exist without raiders.

[Shizensky]

I find there is little incentive to try to explain the language of our law to parties who have an obvious interest in finding a fault in our actions. We are defenders, and so far the raiders have expressed the most concern over the words being used. Nothing surpising there.

Simply put, I'm not up to providing snippets that can be used to twist our words against us.

RIASF command understands the intent of the law. It's not my concern if the nation who oversaw DEN's last breath or an indivudual who picks a side based on poltical convenience - both former Grey Wardens themselves - feel the need for clarification.

[Tim-Opolis]

I'm very thankful for our staunch friends in the Renegade Islands Alliance for standing with us, though I see it less as anyone standing with The Grey Wardens but more of all of us standing together in a unified front against the invader faction which has for so long been able to run around this game without consequence. They don't find issues with taking offensive actions against us, so why should we against them. It's rather ironic, really. Remembering how many invaders were applauding actions such as the Wibblefeet Infiltration, various leaks from the UDL, or invasions of formerly or currently defender regions, it's funny to see many of those same faces now turning around and condemning groups like The Grey Wardens and Renegade Islands Alliance for taking a more aggressive stance through methods such as infiltration and counter-attack. Hell, I've even had multiple members tell me it's not "sporting" for us to do this. Because, you know, torching regions and piling 50+ high is "sporting", right?

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

Individuals more qualified than I have already spoken in this thread on the matter. This view has always been within defending, and some like myself have been documented advocates of it for quite a while now. Hell, TITO has never abandoned these principles, and I certainly see you still lumping them with the rest of defending. While the more modern Defender era has certainly seen sentiments like this kicked to the curb by ultra-moralist views from individuals such as Unibot, that does not negate the existence of this view. That it has seen resurgence finally is incredibly refreshing to say the least, and the widespread complaining from the invader-aligned sphere about that resurgence only confirms it's been needed.

[Cormactopia II]

I find there is little incentive to try to explain the language of our law to parties who have an obvious interest in finding a fault in our actions. We are defenders, and so far the raiders have expressed the most concern over the words being used. Nothing surpising there.

Simply put, I'm not up to providing snippets that can be used to twist our words against us.

RIASF command understands the intent of the law. It's not my concern if the nation who oversaw DEN's last breath or an indivudual who picks a side based on poltical convenience - both former Grey Wardens themselves - feel the need for clarification.

Does it matter who's asking the question, when the question is whether you've just committed to potentially invading seven or eight of the nine Feeders and Sinkers? Your refusal to answer that question is pretty telling. Seems like every Feeder and Sinker but The Rejected Realms should be worried.

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

Individuals more qualified than I have already spoken in this thread on the matter. This view has always been within defending, and some like myself have been documented advocates of it for quite a while now. Hell, TITO has never abandoned these principles, and I certainly see you still lumping them with the rest of defending. While the more modern Defender era has certainly seen sentiments like this kicked to the curb by ultra-moralist views from individuals such as Unibot, that does not negate the existence of this view. That it has seen resurgence finally is incredibly refreshing to say the least, and the widespread complaining from the invader-aligned sphere about that resurgence only confirms it's been needed.

If counter-raiders want to continue picking fights and provoking the largest regions in the game, I'm all right with that. Provoking the Feeders and Sinkers worked out so well for the UDL, after all.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Hm. An interesting change in the dynamic.

However, with change comes questions.

By choosing to align yourselves fully with the Wardens and their ideology, does this mean that The North Pacific has to face the potential that RIASF may one day act against it in its own region, simply based on the fact that it raids?

From that very same question, I ask: does Kingdom of Alexandria, Europeia, Albion need fear the same? Does the Land of Kings and Emperors, The South Pacific, Unknown?

I won't pretend to be at ease with this shift in policy. I'm starting to see patterns in shifts across the game that are alarming to me... a rise in factional mistrust between raiders and defenders will make the atmosphere in regions where both reside more tense.

[North East Somerset]

"1. In the event of a region with either a current or historical tie to raiding of other regions in NationStates were to become a viable target for the Renegade Islands Alliance Special Forces, the serving Security Officer or the Chief Executive shall have the authority to give orders to move in a hostile manner, without the need for a declaration of war.

So you're basically in a potential de facto state of war with every region that has ever engaged in raiding?

This is the vast majority of current gameplay regions, by any measure....

[Funkadelia]

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

Interesting that you mention that because Taijitu (while you were a citizen and a militia member there) and the Grey Wardens have advocated this policy for over a year.

Eluvatar, Myroria, and I basically wrote the book for this.

[Cormactopia II]

Overall, it's unfortunate, but unsurprising, to see Renegade Islands Alliance joining the Order of the Grey Wardens in abandoning defending in favor of joining the ranks of the counter-raiders.

Interesting that you mention that because Taijitu (while you were a citizen and a militia member there) and the Grey Wardens have advocated this policy for over a year.

Eluvatar, Myroria and I basically wrote the book for this.

I'm aware of that, Chancellor.

How does the Founderless Regions Alliance feel about invading regions these days, anyway? Should we expect the FRA to jump on the counter-raider bandwagon under your leadership?

[Funkadelia]

I'd rather not follow your attempt to threadjack this down a rabbit hole away from RIA.

[Cormactopia II]

I'd rather not follow your attempt to threadjack this down a rabbit hole away from RIA.

That wasn't a no. But you have a point.

[Red Dusk II]

By choosing to align yourselves fully with the Wardens and their ideology, does this mean that The North Pacific has to face the potential that RIASF may one day act against it in its own region, simply based on the fact that it raids?

From that very same question, I ask: does Kingdom of Alexandria, Europeia, Albion need fear the same? Does the Land of Kings and Emperors, The South Pacific, Unknown?

When you say "act against it in its own region" I shall assume that you mean in The North Pacific. (If I am wrong, please let me know)
To which I can say, it is highly unlikely. RIASF doesn't just willy nilly choose to invade somewhere. There is a lot of careful research and planning that goes on before the RIASF undergoes an offensive operation. Unless TNP were to suddenly begin aggressively purging regions and refounding them, I think I can safely say that the region doesn't need to fear an invasion into it's own (metaphorical) soil. This isn't to say that the RIASF won't do everything in their power to defend regions that TNP attempts to raid. The same can more or less be said for the other regions you listed. Obviously, I don't have the policies regarding refounding regions as trophies for the various regions you listed memorized, so suffice to say most trophy regions will still be applicable targets, since those are raiders celebrating a victory which almost always results from the destruction of a community by the raiders.

[Shizensky]

Does it matter who's asking the question, when the question is whether you've just committed to potentially invading seven or eight of the nine Feeders and Sinkers? Your refusal to answer that question is pretty telling. Seems like every Feeder and Sinker but The Rejected Realms should be worried.

I beg to differ. One key difference between you and I is that I tend to be pretty on the level with people. I am staunchly loyal to my friends, and even my enemies are treated with respect on the field. I chose "Esse Quam Videri" - to be, rather than to seem - for a reason. If there is confusion in anything I say it's because I wasn't clear. I'm not the type to try to be sneaky or to mislead others.

So...

Your refusal to answer that question is pretty telling.

This is the sort of thing I tend to stay away from, but is something you're very good at. I didn't give you an answer because I didn't want to, which I already clearly stated. You're very good at twisting words and declaring someone else's intent to suit your interest, and I didn't feel like playing that game. Please forgive me for not trusting your intent. I never know when you're genuinely concerned about something or trying to find an angle to spin, so I took the more cautious path. If you are genuinely more concerned about your fellow GCRs than you are about gaining political points against a Defender, then I'd be happy to have a conversation with you.

I'm not a fan of mixing politics with my military, though.

By choosing to align yourselves fully with the Wardens and their ideology, does this mean that The North Pacific has to face the potential that RIASF may one day act against it in its own region, simply based on the fact that it raids?

From that very same question, I ask: does Kingdom of Alexandria, Europeia, Albion need fear the same? Does the Land of Kings and Emperors, The South Pacific, Unknown?

In 12 and a half years, I have been very successful in my goal of completely avoiding GCR politics. It's not that I've ever had a problem with GCRs, it's just that the political atmosphere wasn't something I'd be comfortable with. In fact, one of the key reasons the RIA left the ADN was because of their involvement with the TNP. We were against TNP's liberation, but we felt that the ADN was getting too politically involved in a situation that we felt was a separation from the cause.

We aren't even that concerned over Independent regions. Sure, we'll come across each other on the field, that's natural and has been happening for years, but we're not interested in going out of our way to take Albion or anybody else. It is highly unlikely that we'll be as aggressive or broad with our targets as TGW might be.

When the RIA talks about raider regions, we're talking about raider regions, a classification we wouldn't even give to Osiris. I had bets with Wordy over who would get DEN before that dream was taken from me, for instance. We are most interested in fighting against those regions and organizations whose core identity is raiding. If you took raids away from TBH, what do you have left? On the other hand, if you took the military away from Lazarus, TRR, XKI, TNP, or LKE, you still have fully functional regions with legitimate governments and rich cultures. We know who we're going after.

Contrary to what some people may be suggesting, no, we are not going to target every region that has ever raided. I do apologize if you disagree with the wording or the amendment, but to be blunt, we don't really care on that point. The law is for us, and we understand its intent. The intent is documented in several places on our forum so that there is no confusion. Again, this isn't necessarily a change in RIASF policy, so if you haven't seen one of our sailors hoisting the flag over one of your regions or a region like it, I'm not sure you ever will.