Balder - State Opening of 19th Storting

[Roavin]

I'm still waiting for my PNG so I can hang it on my wall, dude.

You were declared persona non grata on 16 September. We don't normally issue announcements for such decisions. We just edit the relevant accounts.

Am I PNG?

[Onder Kelkia]

That's very odd. Your queen told me I was not PNG last we spoke. Can I get a copy for my wall?

The Queen's re-collection is that she advised you that she didn't know whether you were PNG/banned, not that you weren't.

The decision occurred on 16 September following a brief discussion on what was, to be frank, a fairly minor/uncontroversial issue.

You can get a copy of the standard notice by logging into the forums.

You were declared persona non grata on 16 September. We don't normally issue announcements for such decisions. We just edit the relevant accounts.

Am I PNG?

Yes, since at least mid 2017, and you can see for yourself by logging into the Balder forums.

[Cormactopia Prime]

You were declared persona non grata on 16 September. We don't normally issue announcements for such decisions. We just edit the relevant accounts.

What was the reasoning for his persona non grata declaration? Osiris should retaliate with PNG declarations of its own, beginning with Solorni and NES.

[Syberis]

That's very odd. Your queen told me I was not PNG last we spoke. Can I get a copy for my wall?

The Queen's re-collection is that she advised you that she didn't know whether you were PNG/banned, not that you weren't.

The decision occurred on 16 September following a brief discussion on what was, to be frank, a fairly minor/uncontroversial issue.

You can get a copy of the standard notice by logging into the forums.

Am I PNG?

Yes, since at least mid 2017, and you can see for yourself by logging into the Balder forums.

So the queen was deliberately kept in the dark or..? Do you guys really not keep the individual who's most responsible for ingame security informed of who is and is not allowed to be in Balder?

I would like to see a discussion of the reasoning, at the very least. I assume that's not going to happen. But I suppose I can get that framed and mounted. Do you want me to send you a picture?

[The Church of Satan]

Everyone just calm down. >_<
Annex 1: Onder, please stop taking everything so seriously, deliberately or not. Have a sense of humor. >_>

Annex 2: Fratt, please don't fan the flames, it's not doing anyone any good.

Annex 3: Onder, TRR isn't out to get Balder. It's been what, five years, since Balder and TRR became MORTAL BLOOD ENEMIES!? The paranoia has to stop or take an aspirin and nap. Also see annex one please.

Annex 4: Fratt, see annex two.

[Onder Kelkia]

So the queen was deliberately kept in the dark or..? Do you guys really not keep the individual who's most responsible for ingame security informed of who is and is not allowed to be in Balder?

As she told you she didn't know whether you were PNG/banned, I imagine that she forgot what was frankly a very minor/uncontroversial decision, in the aftermath of your appalling tirades directed towards the Queen, Crown Prince and Statsminister of Balder in the NationStates Gameplay Discord server.

The Queen was informed in advance of the decision, before it was enacted, as is protocol.

I would like to see a discussion of the reasoning, at the very least. I assume that's not going to happen. But I suppose I can get that framed and mounted. Do you want me to send you a picture?

As already stated, Balder does not routinely issue public explanations for PNG notices, except as part of diplomatic announcements where applicable.

I don' think there is anything further to say about the matter.

[Syberis]

So the queen was deliberately kept in the dark or..? Do you guys really not keep the individual who's most responsible for ingame security informed of who is and is not allowed to be in Balder?

As she told you she didn't know whether you were PNG/banned, I imagine that she forgot what was frankly a very minor/uncontroversial decision, in the aftermath of your appalling tirades directed towards the Queen, Crown Prince and Statsminister of Balder in the NationStates Gameplay Discord server.

The Queen was informed in advance of the decision, before it was enacted, as is protocol.

Okay, so she lied. She did know, as you literally just said. Thanks, bro

[Onder Kelkia]

As she told you she didn't know whether you were PNG/banned, I imagine that she forgot what was frankly a very minor/uncontroversial decision, in the aftermath of your appalling tirades directed towards the Queen, Crown Prince and Statsminister of Balder in the NationStates Gameplay Discord server.

The Queen was informed in advance of the decision, before it was enacted, as is protocol.

Okay, so she lied. She did know, as you literally just said. Thanks, bro

She didn't tell you that you weren't PNG, she told you, and I quote that she had "No idea if you were/are being banned". Your conversation with her occurred on 12 October, 4 weeks after the decision was taken on 16 September. It is overwhelmingly likely that she simply forgot the very brief discussion on it.

Your attempt to impugn the integrity of the Queen is baseless and entirely unnecessary.

In response to the Queen telling you she didn't know, if you wanted a definitive answer one way or the other, the correct thing to do would have been to contact the Statsminister: or more simply yet, log-in to your Balder forum account, where you could have availed yourself of an answer immediately.

[Syberis]

Okay, so she lied. She did know, as you literally just said. Thanks, bro

She didn't tell you that you weren't PNG, she told you, and I quote that she had "No idea if you were/are being banned". Your conversation with her occurred on 12 October, 4 weeks after the decision was taken on 16 September. It is overwhelmingly likely that she simply forgot the very brief discussion on it.

Your attempt to impugn the integrity of the Queen is baseless and entirely unnecessary.

In response to the Queen telling you she didn't know, if you wanted a definitive answer one way or the other, the correct thing to do would have been to contact the Statsminister: or more simply yet, log-in to your Balder forum account, where you could have availed yourself of an answer immediately.

Don't you still have me blocked on Discord?

[Onder Kelkia]

She didn't tell you that you weren't PNG, she told you, and I quote that she had "No idea if you were/are being banned". Your conversation with her occurred on 12 October, 4 weeks after the decision was taken on 16 September. It is overwhelmingly likely that she simply forgot the very brief discussion on it.

Your attempt to impugn the integrity of the Queen is baseless and entirely unnecessary.

In response to the Queen telling you she didn't know, if you wanted a definitive answer one way or the other, the correct thing to do would have been to contact the Statsminister: or more simply yet, log-in to your Balder forum account, where you could have availed yourself of an answer immediately.

Don't you still have me blocked on Discord?

I have never had you blocked on Discord, let alone currently so.

I don't accept messages from people who aren't friends or part of certain servers, so it is possible you can't contact me there without sending a friend request for that reason. However, my telegram inbox is always an option, as indeed is contacting me via the forums of one of the regions I am in.

[Altinsane]

I wish someone would have told me that Balder was PNGing my Guardians earlier. I would have given up any pretenses of friendliness with Balder's Government a long time ago.

All of my love and friendship to the citizens of Balder, who still hold out hope that their Queen will side with them and coup the LKE Government that keeps them from making changes or holding office in their own region. I wish them the best. You all have a happy home in Osiris when you get tired of being subjugated and pushed aside. Unfortunately, a Queen's empathy for your plight does not equal a Queen taking action to save you.

[Vulturret]

I wish someone would have told me that Balder was PNGing my Guardians earlier. I would have given up any pretenses of friendliness with Balder's Government a long time ago.

Not to engage in this debate too much, as I do not want to derail Balder's embassy thread, it's worth noting that it isn't really that hard to find out who is persona non grata in Balder. This is easily accessible publicly on their regional forums, with the usergroup being found here. You could've easily looked for yourself.

All of my love and friendship to the citizens of Balder, who still hold out hope that their Queen will side with them and coup the LKE Government that keeps them from making changes or holding office in their own region. I wish them the best. You all have a happy home in Osiris when you get tired of being subjugated and pushed aside. Unfortunately, a Queen's empathy for your plight does not equal a Queen taking action to save you.

It's also probably worth noting that the Sorting, which in turn recommends the Statsminister's appointment to the Queen, is democratically elected by the citizenry of Balder. Citizens of Balder have numerous reasons to be happy with their current government, but if they weren't, they could just vote them out of office during the general elections.

[Cormactopia Prime]

This is easily accessible publicly on their regional forums, with the usergroup being found here. You could've easily looked for yourself.

That link requires a forum account, because Balder is hyper paranoid and unlike most other GCRs doesn't let guests see anything.

[Onder Kelkia]

I wish someone would have told me that Balder was PNGing my Guardians earlier. I would have given up any pretenses of friendliness with Balder's Government a long time ago.

Syberis was declared persona non grata on 16 September, after the dissolution of our treaty, not before.

Frankly, after the way he behaved towards Balder, I am surprised that it was not expected. The fact he asked about suggests that he expected it.

All of my love and friendship to the citizens of Balder, who still hold out hope that their Queen will side with them and coup the LKE Government that keeps them from making changes or holding office in their own region. I wish them the best. You all have a happy home in Osiris when you get tired of being subjugated and pushed aside. Unfortunately, a Queen's empathy for your plight does not equal a Queen taking action to save you.

This critique of the Government of Balder is not only unnecessary but has no basis in the reality of Balder's politics and government.

My actions in Balder have all been taken in the interests of Balder as a sovereign region, not the LKE. By cumulative longevity of service, I am one of the longest-serving officeholders in Balder's history. My main nation in Balder (Wicker table) has been present in the region since 2011, making it the third-longest resident nation, since I was first involved there. It is deeply hurtful that you would impugn my loyalty to Balder for political purposes. Like many dual citizens, I discharge my duties faithfully, loyally and honestly between the different regions I am involved in. My roots in Balder are organic.

If the citizenry of Balder was dissatisfied with my administration, then they had the opportunity to re-elect new leaders in the October Storting elections. The result of that election was a Storting which elected me as Statsminister for another term. Following that, I appointed a cabinet of six ministers - only one of whom (Linkin, my current predecessor as Statsminister) has any connection to the LKE. This proportion flies in the face of your assertion that there is anything preventing citizen of Balder from "from making changes or holding office in their own region". Our government is highly inclusive.

The citizenry will have an opportunity to elect new representatives again in only a month or so's time. Balder has frequent and fair elections.

You might wish there was, but there is no tension between the government and our citizens. It is the citizenry that makes up the government.

This is easily accessible publicly on their regional forums, with the usergroup being found here. You could've easily looked for yourself.

That link requires a forum account, because Balder is hyper paranoid and unlike most other GCRs doesn't let guests see anything.

Balder is far from the only region which requires guests to log-in to view member lists.

[Altinsane]

I wish someone would have told me that Balder was PNGing my Guardians earlier. I would have given up any pretenses of friendliness with Balder's Government a long time ago.

Not to engage in this debate too much, as I do not want to derail Balder's embassy thread, it's worth noting that it isn't really that hard to find out who is persona non grata in Balder. This is easily accessible publicly on their regional forums, with the usergroup being found here. You could've easily looked for yourself.

All of my love and friendship to the citizens of Balder, who still hold out hope that their Queen will side with them and coup the LKE Government that keeps them from making changes or holding office in their own region. I wish them the best. You all have a happy home in Osiris when you get tired of being subjugated and pushed aside. Unfortunately, a Queen's empathy for your plight does not equal a Queen taking action to save you.

It's also probably worth noting that the Sorting, which in turn recommends the Statsminister's appointment to the Queen, is democratically elected by the citizenry of Balder. Citizens of Balder have numerous reasons to be happy with their current government, but if they weren't, they could just vote them out of office during the general elections.

Should I go and look up the member lists of every region just in case one of us has gotten PNG on the sly? How often should I check? What if some of the PNG people don't have forum accounts, what do I do then? That's a ridiculous suggestion. For it to be expected of anyone to individually go and check everyone's members lists just in case they've been secretly PNGd is silly to even consider. On the democratically elected government of Balder, I hear regularly from the mouths of Balder citizens themselves that LKE stampedes their place in the region by migration and voter importation and that even the most popular and useful among them are barely making it into office by the skin of their teeth because LKE votes itself into government.

It's possible they're all just telling stories though. Who are we, outside of the region, to take the voice of its citizenry into consideration when the head of their government, Emperor Emeritus of the LKE, says differently.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Balder needs to be liberated and the userite imperialists mercilessly purged without hesitation. Every Feeder and Sinker should be committed to that cause.

[Onder Kelkia]

What if some of the PNG people don't have forum accounts, what do I do then? That's a ridiculous suggestion. For it to be expected of anyone to individually go and check everyone's members lists just in case they've been secretly PNGd is silly to even consider.

Balder generally only imposes PNG status on those with forum accounts. It works as a form of banning on gameplay-related grounds.

On the democratically elected government of Balder, I hear regularly from the mouths of Balder citizens themselves that LKE stampedes their place in the region by migration and voter importation and that even the most popular and useful among them are barely making it into office by the skin of their teeth because LKE votes itself into government.

There is no such "migration and voter importation". This is untrue. No LKE citizens have been asked to become citizens of Balder at any point. Amongst all persons who have citizenship of Balder, there are of course efforts to encourage participation in Balder, and political campaigning takes place to lobby for votes, but that occurs among existing citizens; not among any group of citizens exclusively. No one is asked to become a citizen of Balder to vote.

The notion that the relatively small LKE presence in Balder is enough to outvote everyone else in Balder is laughably and demonstrably nonsense.

There is a segment of the population which also has LKE citizenship - but less than a fifth of the citizenry. How can they outvote the remainder of the population, the non-LKE portion, constituting more than four-fifths of the voters? A couple of them (such as the Crown Prince) have demonstrably greater connection to Balder than they do to the LKE, in terms of long-term affiliation and some of the others did not log when the last election took place. Even assuming they all backed me, how does that explain my electoral success? You cannot explain my popularity without counting non-LKE citizens in Balder.

If the non-LKE population of Balder - the overwhelming majority - was as dissatisfied as you suggest - then it would be easy for them to vote the current government out. The reality is that the government I lead is competent and well-liked, which is why the citizens of Balder support us.

Who are we, outside of the region, to take the voice of its citizenry into consideration when the head of their government, Emperor Emeritus of the LKE, says differently.

It is impossible to rebut something or someone who is not on the record. There can of course be a wide range of opinions within any region's population.

Normally "the voice of the citizenry" is therefore understood by the outcome of elections in which the entire region's population can participate. In this case, the electoral history of Balder - with electorates composed of a great variety of different citizens, from different backgrounds, through the normal process of people coming and going over 2 years, since I first served as Statsminister in August 2016 - has consistently been one of support for the governments I lead. It is more to do with the competence of my administrations than anything specific to the composition of electorate.

[Altinsane]

You can say these things, Onder. But that's not what I'm hearing from anyone else. And there are a lot of dissatisfied citizens and a lot of people who used to be on the inside of your little schemes but now sit on the outside that are really, really willing to talk. Diplomacy and textwalls won't save you from the legion of frustrated people who know better.

[Syberis]

lol you guys make Wymondham PNG? For... What exactly?

[Cormactopia Prime]

So just to be clear, you have declared two former Pharaohs, the person first in line for our Delegacy, and the head of our legislature persona non grata.

Someone explain to me why Osiris shouldn't retaliate.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

Can someone please tell why i was made PNG, and not even told about it? I was informed this evening when it came up in a discord conversation, the way this has been handled is a disgrace quite frankly. The issue I have been declared PNG for was the accusations(which have been accepted as false by europeia) that I leaked there treaties, it has been resolved with europeia, it was resolved almost immediately after it kicked off. So why is this even an issue, why was I declared PNG and not informed but merely booted from the discord server without a warning and my account on the forum masked as PNG, I was not even able to see the reason why i was declared PNG. I thought it was a joke, the handling off this has been a disgrace, not to mention the reason(if you can even call it that). This is a petty attempt to strike out at an innocent citizen of Osiris as punishment for my region standing its ground and refusing to roll over in the face of balder's aggression.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

I have just received a message from Onder on discord that the reason for my PNG as this post, despite the fact it was posted 5 months before my PNG

I am delighted to hear of this development and look forward to the return of normality in Lazarus I am also saddened by Balder and OnderKelkia's insistence at sitting idly by and assisting as foreign subversives attempt to gain a stranglehold over Lazarus to the detriment of its natives and community

[Syberis]

I have just received a message from Onder on discord that the reason for my PNG as this post, despite the fact it was posted 5 months before my PNG

I am delighted to hear of this development and look forward to the return of normality in Lazarus I am also saddened by Balder and OnderKelkia's insistence at sitting idly by and assisting as foreign subversives attempt to gain a stranglehold over Lazarus to the detriment of its natives and community

He's a real bad liar, ain't he?

[Cormactopia Prime]

You mean Balder's hostility toward Osiris is rooted in Osiris' decision to oppose the LWU regime in Lazarus? What a shocker.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

I have now been informed its because that post was slandering balder as I am a non citizen that is not aloud. Now, to step aside from the mind blowing display of shallowness and vanity. I was a citizen when the post was made.

As that spoiler shows, on the same day I was apparently slandering balder, Onder was asking me to undermine Lazarus' legitimate government and unendorse Imki as I was a citizen of balder. So why not png me then?
This is a futher example of the doublethink balder employs to justify its increasing erratic lashing out at all those who dare criticise balder.