The Rejected Times

[Kogvuron]

Oh agreed, I was just talking to Funk about a unique cultural activity that TRR and Lazarus might share that could spark other similar events across NS. I'm looking forward to it.

If it's a cultural activity perhaps you could even include people who are not in lockstep with your rigid worldview.

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

[Unibot III]

If it's a cultural activity perhaps you could even include people who are not in lockstep with your rigid worldview.

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

We might open it up to TSP and NPO. They seem chill.

[Funkadelia]

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

We might open it up to TSP and NPO. They seem chill.

Seconded

[Parhe]

But TRR is so perfect

[Unibot III]

Thanks Parhe.

[PhDre]

If it's a cultural activity perhaps you could even include people who are not in lockstep with your rigid worldview.

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

That would make sense if these regions have no interest in improving relations with UCR's or don't value participation of UCR's in cultural events.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

If it's a cultural activity perhaps you could even include people who are not in lockstep with your rigid worldview.

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

Would it not make more sense to try and work out why this is the case and do something about it?

[Carta]

If it's a cultural activity perhaps you could even include people who are not in lockstep with your rigid worldview.

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

The ISRA hardly constitutes every other GCR.

Lazarus is on good terms with TSP, TP, TEP, TNP and TRR, having treaties with three of them and a non-aggression pact with one. We're cordial with TWP: we have a different worldview from them, but we're able to separate our alignments and have cordial relations as fellow GCR's.

[Nierr]

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

Would it not make more sense to try and work out why this is the case and do something about it?

Because when some of those concerns are either completely irrational or outright fabrications it is kind of difficult to do to?

[Kogvuron]

I mean, when every other GCR seems to have a problem with either TRR or Laz, I think it might make sense that it would be restricted to just TRR and Laz for this event

Would it not make more sense to try and work out why this is the case and do something about it?

Frankly, I don't think Laz can do much about their problems with the ISRA other than bow down to them and accept raiderism.

[Cormac A Stark]

Frankly, I don't think Laz can do much about their problems with the ISRA other than bow down to them and accept raiderism.

You could, I don't know, stop attacking us at every opportunity, including in this thread. The constant propaganda attacks on Balder over the past several months are the primary reason Lazarus is having trouble with Osiris and Balder, not because we expect you to "bow down" and "accept raiderism."

I'm sure it's convenient to portray us as intolerant raiders, but both Balder and Osiris maintain relations with other defender regions. That would seem to indicate the problem is with Lazarus, specifically.

[Frattastan II]

You could, I don't know, stop attacking us at every opportunity

[Glen-Rhodes]

This is the Gameplay forum, aka the propaganda playground. Raiders and imperialists attack defenders all the time. Defenders attack raiders and imperialists all the time. Unthinkable. Who cares about words so much? Duke it out on the battlefield. At least then, you guys are generating activity, and it's more than just one or two people having fun writing forum posts.

[Mallorea and Riva]

This is the Gameplay forum, aka the propaganda playground. Raiders and imperialists attack defenders all the time. Defenders attack raiders and imperialists all the time. Unthinkable. Who cares about words so much? Duke it out on the battlefield. At least then, you guys are generating activity, and it's more than just one or two people having fun writing forum posts.

Defenders retreated to this forum after realizing their position on the battlefield, we sent in our crack team of Cormac and Port Blood to root them out.

[Cormac A Stark]

This is the Gameplay forum, aka the propaganda playground. Raiders and imperialists attack defenders all the time. Defenders attack raiders and imperialists all the time. Unthinkable. Who cares about words so much? Duke it out on the battlefield. At least then, you guys are generating activity, and it's more than just one or two people having fun writing forum posts.

Says the defender who does not in fact defend. Do you guys ever not do hypocrisy?

In case you haven't noticed, Glen-Rhodes, I'm a Vice Delegate. My WA nation can't go anywhere because I'm not Tim (sorry Tim). Perhaps you should try duking it out on the battlefield for a while. I did it for about a year and a half, on both sides.

[Kogvuron]

This is the Gameplay forum, aka the propaganda playground. Raiders and imperialists attack defenders all the time. Defenders attack raiders and imperialists all the time. Unthinkable. Who cares about words so much? Duke it out on the battlefield. At least then, you guys are generating activity, and it's more than just one or two people having fun writing forum posts.

Do you guys ever not do hypocrisy?

You of all people really shouldn't talk about hypocrisy

[Drop Your Pants]

You could, I don't know, stop attacking us at every opportunity, including in this thread. The constant propaganda attacks on Balder over the past several months are the primary reason Lazarus is having trouble with Osiris and Balder, not because we expect you to "bow down" and "accept raiderism."

I always thought it was because we kicked NES out on his bottom And several months, really?

Defenders retreated to this forum after realizing their position on the battlefield, we sent in our crack team of Cormac and Port Blood to root them out.

Crack team or team on crack?

[Glen-Rhodes]

I'm sure there are a lot of people with immobile WA nations. Doesn't stop them from sending out their regions' military forces. Nothing stopping you, Cormac, from chatting with your Delegate and deploying Osiris' army against Lazarus' missions. Instead of complaining about defenders propagandizing against raiders, like it's some great violation of the R/D social contract.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

When was the last time Defenders actually propogandized against raiders? It all seems directed against Independent and Independent-Imperialist regions these days.

[Glen-Rhodes]

When was the last time Defenders actually propogandized against raiders? It all seems directed against Independent and Independent-Imperialist regions these days.

Well, if you keep dividing up raiders into smaller and smaller exclusive groups, I guess you can claim they aren't actually propagandizing against raiders. In reality, I don't think defenders distinguish between raiders and imperialists and Independents who exclusively align themselves with raiders and imperialists. Because in the end they're all just raiding regions, and that's what defenders have a problem with. They don't care about your motivations for doing it.

[Cormac A Stark]

I'm sure there are a lot of people with immobile WA nations. Doesn't stop them from sending out their regions' military forces. Nothing stopping you, Cormac, from chatting with your Delegate and deploying Osiris' army against Lazarus' missions. Instead of complaining about defenders propagandizing against raiders, like it's some great violation of the R/D social contract.

Osiris' and Balder's military forces have in the past month been deployed to support the liberation of Liberal Haven (but yes, clearly imperialists = raiders), to support Lone Wolves United's defense of its regional territory in Hogwarts, and to assist at update in the invasion of NAZI EUROPE.

I apologize if our relatively frequent activity is too infrequent for you. I'm not even entirely sure what you're getting at here. Do I need a raid per comment in Gameplay? I can potentially make that happen, but it's an odd request from a defender.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

When was the last time Defenders actually propogandized against raiders? It all seems directed against Independent and Independent-Imperialist regions these days.

Well, if you keep dividing up raiders into smaller and smaller exclusive groups, I guess you can claim they aren't actually propagandizing against raiders. In reality, I don't think defenders distinguish between raiders and imperialists and Independents who exclusively align themselves with raiders and imperialists. Because in the end they're all just raiding regions, and that's what defenders have a problem with. They don't care about your motivations for doing it.

And sooner or later Defenders will have to accept that distinction, if they want any realistic prospect of fruitful relationships with Independent regions. The reality is that Independents and Raiders quite incomparable, and typically there is more difference between them than Raiders and Defenders - UDL is far more similar to TBR than any Independent group is. The reduction of regional identity to no more than military alignment, and then according to the flawed R/D dichotomy, is the principle barrier to positive Defender-Independent relations.

It is about time that Defenders realized this and adjusted their ideology to match the reality. Reality does not tend to adjust to match ideology.

[Venico]

As a soldier of the Sekhmet I am willing to ravage a native community for every Cormac comment in his stead while he is WA immobile. o7

[Glen-Rhodes]

And sooner or later Defenders will have to accept that distinction, if they want any realistic prospect of fruitful relationships with Independent regions.

Why? Defenders aren't the ones who tried to change the long accepted terminology. No matter what your motivations are, at the end of the day you are either raiding a region or defending it, hence "R/D" as the common acronym. (We've had this debate over at the TSP forums, already.) Independent regions shouldn't have trouble accepting the basic truth about NS military gameplay. Defenders don't call out specific groups and defend against them. Defenders act against raiding itself. If an Independent region can't see a way to have 'fruitful relationships' with defenders because of that, then that's the fault of Independents within those regions trying to ignore basic realities.

[Cormac A Stark]

And sooner or later Defenders will have to accept that distinction, if they want any realistic prospect of fruitful relationships with Independent regions.

Why? Defenders aren't the ones who tried to change the long accepted terminology. No matter what your motivations are, at the end of the day you are either raiding a region or defending it, hence "R/D" as the common acronym. (We've had this debate over at the TSP forums, already.) Independent regions shouldn't have trouble accepting the basic truth about NS military gameplay. Defenders don't call out specific groups and defend against them. Defenders act against raiding itself. If an Independent region can't see a way to have 'fruitful relationships' with defenders because of that, then that's the fault of Independents within those regions trying to ignore basic realities.

The problem with this line of argument is that independents don't exclusively raid, and thus aren't raiders. Yes, everything they do is technically either invading or defending, as those are the forms of military gameplay possible on this website, but the fact that independents -- and imperialists, for that matter -- don't limit themselves to one of these actions doesn't seem to register with you.

The big difference between raiders and defenders, and the reason independent regions can typically get along with raiders, is that raiders by and large don't care if SPSF for example is liberating a Nazi region or for that matter any raid that isn't their own raid. Meanwhile, defenders can't and won't accept any raid of any region at all, including as The Rejected Times has demonstrated in its latest edition raids of Nazi regions.

Raiders aren't independents, but they can usually accept independence as a valid path for a region to pursue. The problem with defenders and why none of you can have strong relations with any non-defender region is that you refuse to accept any valid path except your own.

It's really very disheartening to see you advocating this defender intolerance of other military pursuits instead of advocating for independence in your capacity as TSP's Minister of Foreign Affairs. I can just imagine how an MoFA who bashes imperialism would go over in Osiris, or an MoFA who bashes defenderism in Lazarus. Do you feel at all compelled to actually represent the region you were elected to represent, instead of bashing the choices it has made?