The Rejected Times

[Valrifell]

That wasn't really the point of the article...

I know, it more or less boils down to another outcry against forumcrashing (which is undrrstandable) and why it's a terrible deed to commit and the consequences of doing it.

[Sedgistan]

Sedgistan, upon indictment, appeared surprisingly elated with the vote’s results.

“Well it looks like TRR citizens made the right decision as to who was guilty for Kandarin's death,” writes Sedgistan, while being escorted from the premises by two rather cross-looking officers.

I'd only looked at the gameside vote at that point, where thankfully the nations of TRR had made the right decision. Unfortunately, I was let down by the voters on the forum... perhaps related to the fact that they were able to stay anonymous there. I'll still get my revenge!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

he was bombarded with messages from Severisen, Ever-Wandering Souls and Noblephnx, among others, asking if he was the one responsible

I'm disappointed to see that mistruth being further populated. As I said on the first page of the original thread - While I cannot speak for Noble or Sev, I said nothing of the sort.

So it's pretty much made it's way around GP your forum is blown to hell. If you can still log in, I know a few tricks for investigating who did it, and I can shadow you through the options on the Sic board. I say if, because if someone got into your account, they probably changed the email and password associated with it before leaving. Really, we know nothing. We can't even get a common answer on whether you were the only admin or not, and whether or not you created it or someone made it for you.
[1/2/2015 4:18:07 PM] EW Souls - TBH: Which are important questions. YOu have no short list of enemies either.
[1/2/2015 4:18:41 PM] EW Souls - TBH: Anyways, whoever it was likely took advantage of the fact that you were away at the time (public knowledge) which was a pretty low blow
[1/2/2015 4:19:38 PM] EW Souls - TBH: According to a few senior GP people, you can call Zetaboards support and they might be able to restore the board to a previous thing, but I don't know for sure about that. And if you do, you might lose all trace of evidence

This was at a time when there were a couple different theories flying around, and it was unclear as to whether the board was still up in some function and cleaned out, or down entirely (in part due to confusion between two or three different AOI forums). As you can see, I ask if he could get on, offer to shadow him through seeing the IP of who did it if he can, ask whether he was the only admin, and if not, if he was the root admin, and then pass on what I've been hearing about support tickets and getting it restored from a backup. I went on to say some more about the support ticket and offer some links after doing further research, confirmed some facts, and offered up some information - street talk you could say - for him to investigate on; all of that only after he had responded to my initial notices though. Nowhere in there did I suggest he'd done it. In my talks with others, it'd be brought up, but someone I was talking to had caught him for a few seconds closer to when it went down and asked him what was going on with it, and he had no idea what that person was talking about - so my little investigative group dispelled that fairly fast, and long before I contacted him directly.

So again, though I cannot speak for Sev or Noble, I said nothing of the sort. I corrected that in the original thread on the matter, and I'll correct it here. It's not a huge deal or anything - it's just not true, at all.

[Shadoke]

Nice to know all of gameplay is infallible fuckinbg angels, and that this was with a biased factor of ten with half the fucking story. I will screenshot exactly what that hack tool was, and show you exactly where the password was giiven to me for the ROOT admin, and also the fact that I am fucking fixing the damn forums tomorrow when I am back with my computer... But its not like you care to have the whole truth right?

And about the eye for an eye thing, you know how hard it is not to get pissed when the sky is falling on you, even if you know you deserve it? I have said some bad shit in the last two days, but the half baked articles are indescribably worse. I know i know. Need to pain( me in the worst light for a juicy article. Its childish, and a sore excuse for entertainment.

[Valrifell]

Nice to know all of gameplay is infallible fuckinbg angels, and that this was with a biased factor of ten with half the fucking story. I will screenshot exactly what that hack tool was, and show you exactly where the password was giiven to me for the ROOT admin, and also the fact that I am fucking fixing the damn forums tomorrow when I am back with my computer... But its not like you care to have the whole truth right?

And about the eye for an eye thing, you know how hard it is not to get pissed when the sky is falling on you, even if you know you deserve it? I have said some bad shit in the last two days, but the half baked articles are indescribably worse. I know i know. Need to pain( me in the worst light for a juicy article. Its childish, and a sore excuse for entertainment.

That is to be expected from any newspaper. Rushing off to post on a sensitive issue without any actual basis or want in finding the whole, entire, truth. Instead deciding it better to write an article using a one-sided tone in order to invoke a sense of community outrage against a particular person.

[Zaolat]

Nice to know all of gameplay is infallible fuckinbg angels, and that this was with a biased factor of ten with half the fucking story. I will screenshot exactly what that hack tool was, and show you exactly where the password was giiven to me for the ROOT admin, and also the fact that I am fucking fixing the damn forums tomorrow when I am back with my computer... But its not like you care to have the whole truth right?

And about the eye for an eye thing, you know how hard it is not to get pissed when the sky is falling on you, even if you know you deserve it? I have said some bad shit in the last two days, but the half baked articles are indescribably worse. I know i know. Need to pain( me in the worst light for a juicy article. Its childish, and a sore excuse for entertainment.

Take Feux's advice and come back as someone entirely different and don't let anyone know it's you and avoid those sort of actions that's landed you in this situation. A difficult task no doubt, but don't find many accepting you as you are now. Take it from someone who was once witch-hunted for forum destruction, because of the deletion of an account and a couple threads as root admin.

Luckily for me, it wasn't with any intention to harm the region and the situation was a lot more complicated. Also, my pals truly are a forgiving bunch and I felt remorse for making a mistake that could have been worse, even though it hadn't it hadn't done any good either.

[The Church of Satan]

I was aware that you were helping to restore the forum prior to writing the article Shadoke. However, it doesn't change the past. The second you committed the act, you're name went down in infamy, for all time. Of course you forgot one very important thing. This is The Rejected Times! This isn't the first controversial article we've published. Get over it and move on.

[Shadoke]

So basically run from my problems. Swell. And my IP? Care to explain how i pass that?

I have built more than what has been lossed due to this. Some people do not realise that this hasnt really ruined me. I have been banned from one region i actually care about, and after they brushed aside what I disclosed to them before all of this I can see how I am viewed there. I know I have to work to overcome this, but the fact is i wis: there was a true story told here.

[Christian Democrats]

Based on the story here, I suppose that Tim is benefitting from the FPP system in the Osiris Pharaoh election...?

[Consular]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks people make mistakes and deserve a second chance. I find that people who have fucked up and have something hanging over them are actually easier to trust, because they have experienced what it feels like to make a poor decision, and are less likely to make that same mistake twice.

[Zaolat]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks people make mistakes and deserve a second chance. I find that people who have fucked up and have something hanging over them are actually easier to trust, because they have experienced what it feels like to make a poor decision, and are less likely to make that same mistake twice.

Sure, but you need to give it time, not just a few days or a week for something like this. In my case which is trivial in comparison, it took months. Then a lot longer before I was welcome back to Osiris in good standing.

For full on forum destruction, you'd get lucky if that even works in the first place in most of the bigger places.

[Evil Wolf]

Unfortunately, hopes that this revolutionary rhetoric might translate into actual, concrete change in The West Pacific were quickly dashed the following day, when Pestarzt announced that Cascadia had been invaded by The West Pacific Armed Forces and The Association of Imperialism. This invasion marked a continuation of the imperialist policy pursued by Delegate All Good People and continued by his successor, Darkesia. It was a random invasion to project The West Pacific's power, straight out of the playbook of the United Imperial Armed Forces

Ha ha, no.

If anything, it was out of The West Pacific's own play book and emulated the history left by The West Pacific's Black Sheep Squadron (BSS), the old raiding branch of TWP which existed years ago. It's interesting to note that whenever TWP has sought to revive their military in recent years they have never tried to revive the purely defender West Pacific Liberation Force (WPLF) but have always tried to revive the ideology of the BSS, with Punk D actually trying to revive the group entirely at one point during his delegacy.

I know TRT hates raiding, but let's not pretend that becoming a Defender region once more would make TWP a "revolutionary" region. Defending is anything but.

[RiderSyl]

Thanks for my inclusion in the article, and the interest in Osiris.

[Unibot III]

It's interesting to note that whenever TWP has sought to revive their military in recent years they have never tried to revive the purely defender West Pacific Liberation Force (WPLF) but have always tried to revive the ideology of the BSS, with Punk D actually trying to revive the group entirely at one point during his delegacy.

Despite the fact that WPLF was the most successful of the incarnations of TWP's military. Anti-defender ideology has not always been rational.

[RiderSyl]

Anti-defender ideology is not rational 0.5% of the time.

I did the number science on it.

[Evil Wolf]

Despite the fact that WPLF was the most successful of the incarnations of TWP's military. Anti-defender ideology has not always been rational.

WPLF was also its most successful in 2004-2005, which was over a decade ago. It then sharply declined and was almost non-existent following Biyah and Neenee's attempted West Pacific Dominion coup in which they planned to establish a dictatorship loyal to the defender organization the ADN. You'd be reaching pretty far back to make the argument that TWP should be Defender based on the WPLF. If you've going to pull that, why not argue that TEP should be purely raider? After all, it was founded by the raiders in Atlantic Alliance, prior to it being given feeder status. By Unibot's logic, they should be pure raiders forever.

I think once again TRT and Unibot have demonstrated their inability to distinguish between people who raid for fun sometimes and "Anti-defender ideology". I'm inclined to believe that if TWP was truly anti-defender, they would be banning known defenders from the region and prohibiting them from joining the government.

I don't see that occurring.

[Funkadelia]

In regards to Cormac's article:

While Milograd did leagues to help to change Lazarus and improve it from what it was before he joined, his accomplishments in Lazarus are overstated. Any total regime change initiated by nearly any political actor would have caused activity in Lazarus to skyrocket. Typically when an event like that happens people flock to that region and see what's new, how things have changed, etc. Especially in Lazarus' case, where it was an imperialist holdout that radically changed its position on nearly everything. Milograd resigned as Chairman just before the "maturation" of the PRL, so to speak. The tail end of Milograd's Chairmanship coincided with the tail end of the immense activity that Lazarus enjoyed for most of his Chairmanship. Milograd resigned at an opportunistic time, where activity was fizzling out. With Kazmr's reign being more of the same, he was destined to have a lot of inactivity as the fun and newness of the PRL was waning. This blow was doubled by Kazmr's inactivity while in his post.

I foresee Pestarzt's attempt being either similar or failing altogether. Rather than having a radically different approach, Pestarzt is, as you said, supporting the old and worn out traditional TWP policies while calling it a "revolution." If this "revolution" is even successful, it will be the same as before. Pestarzt will resign right after the initial burst of activity is over, and he will take credit for the whole thing. This entire affair has proven one important thing: The player behind Pestarzt/Milograd is nothing more than an opportunist who will take up whatever ideology or allegiance they need so that they can take power and take credit for as much as possible. It really leaves an extremely sour taste in my mouth, especially since I looked up to Milograd so much in the past. As far as I'm concerned, all of that has been tarnished by this display of egoism.

[Wintermoot]

The player behind Pestarzt/Milograd is nothing more than an opportunist who will take up whatever ideology or allegiance they need so that they can take power and take credit for as much as possible.

But the same could be said for a number of people in gameplay, and those people exist for good reason...for as opportunistic as you may call them, the regions that welcome them, accept them, and enable their behavour would be just as opportunistic, would they not be? And what region wouldn't jump at the chance to get a very active and skilled member with a history and reputation for drawing excitement, attention, and activity towards them and the regions they're in? Someone that can bring people to a region that would have never considered going there before. Someone with continuing connections with a variety of people throughout the game that's able to engage in diplomacy with many regions, even those he or she may have burned in the past. Someone with charisma and influence, is able when it comes to political intrigue, and is skilled in R/D to boot.

So what if they want to take power and credit? So what if they change alignments or ideologies faster than some people change socks? You and I both know that if given the opportunity most regions, orgs, alignments...they'd take them back in a heartbeat. Because...what region wouldn't jump at the chance?

I'm not referring to the player that used to be known as Milograd or any other individual, I'm just playing devil's advocate based on my own observations of gameplay. If the sorts of people you describe exist and flourish, then they do so for good reason...because they can. And if they can...what region wouldn't jump at the chance? What region shouldn't jump at the chance? Again, simply playing devil's advocate.

[Christian Democrats]

I tend to agree with Wintermoot. The sort of person described above is good at invigorating a community. That said, I have found in my own experience that such a person is poor at running his own region or at running an offsite board.

[Cormac Stark]

I know TRT hates raiding, but let's not pretend that becoming a Defender region once more would make TWP a "revolutionary" region. Defending is anything but.

In the Feeders and Sinkers, anything that isn't independence (or its blustery variant, imperialism) would be fairly revolutionary. The Rejected Realms and Lazarus are the only ones that don't adhere to independence, either by label or in practice. Independence is, unquestionably, the status quo in the Feeders and Sinkers.

So, either defending or pure raiding would be revolutionary in the Feeders and Sinkers. Continuing the same tired policy TWPAF had before Pestarzt got there is decidedly not revolutionary.

Thank you as well to both Funkadelia and Wintermoot for the insights. I find myself largely agreeing with Wintermoot, not least because I probably am one of those opportunistic players and we all know it. My problem with Pestarzt is not the opportunism but the lack of originality. He can do better, and both he and The West Pacific would benefit from more creativity.

[McMasterdonia]

I think Funk is right to an extent. Milograd the player has always been fairly opportunistic, and seems to come and go at times where it is the most suitable for his reputation. I believe that could be seen in TSP, Lazarus and even the Pacific to an extent, where Milograd would return and appear to be the 'saviour' of the community. Many people said that when Milograd went to Lazarus, but I didn't take it seriously at the time. I like Milograd the person, out of character, he was a brilliant Delegate of TSP before he went rogue which will always be for me where I saw Milograd at his finest. As Delegate of Lazarus he constantly stirred the pot of activity in a region that hadn't seen much activity before that. The fact that Milograd took the Delegacy, seemed to totally overshadow any efforts taken by Harmoneia or other players in that revolution both before and after Milograd's term in office, in the creation and sustainability of the Peoples Republic of Lazarus.

His recent change to TWP after TSP, The Pacific, Lazarus, etc seems to confirm what was said previously by other players. Can a player who flitters to whatever region has a Delegacy ripe for the taking truly call themselves a regionalist when it suits them? Does that type of player create anything that is sustainable in terms of activity for a long period of time, or do they simply leave it for others to pick up the pieces when they grow tired of it? It was once said that Milograd would be Emperor of the NPO one day, but now he is likely going to be Delegate of TWP. Which region could be next?

Wintermoot is correct that the constant changing players can be invigorating for a community and that many communities are very excited to have them for as long as it lasts... but it never seems to last. The activity created is not sustainable and will soon die out, and the community will return to the state it was in before (or it will advance to something else). Those players do add something to the game, certainly, but that type of opportunism doesn't really serve the region, but the individual themselves. The unsustainable activity created by those players, creates an even greater workload for those who succeed them and who wish to create a region of sustainable activity, growth and prosperity over a extended period of time.

[Cormac Stark]

Wintermoot is correct that the constant changing players can be invigorating for a community and that many communities are very excited to have them for as long as it lasts... but it never seems to last. The activity created is not sustainable and will soon die out, and the community will return to the state it was in before (or it will advance to something else). Those players do add something to the game, certainly, but that type of opportunism doesn't really serve the region, but the individual themselves. The unsustainable activity created by those players, creates an even greater workload for those who succeed them and who wish to create a region of sustainable activity, growth and prosperity over a extended period of time.

I'm not sure it doesn't serve the region. Both Milograd and myself could be characterized as this type of player, and we are largely responsible for creating the structures of, respectively, the People's Republic of Lazarus and the Osiris Fraternal Order. Those structures endure even if we move on, and those structures have made both activity and stability more sustainable in both regions.

Certainly, there are forms of opportunism that only benefit the individual rather than the region or organization. For example, I don't think either my tenure or Milograd's tenure in the UDL were of any benefit to the UDL, but our own political profiles were certainly elevated by our time in the UDL and the connections we made there. But I think there are times when personal opportunism can also benefit the regions involved, and I think we've seen that during Milograd's career. And in the end, creation of activity is nearly always beneficial.

[Pestarzt the Traveller]

Dark and TWP knows what kind of player I am, and so does everyone else. Anyone who thinks they know something the Guardians don't ... doesn't know much about them?

I make friends in regions. I still chat with Lazarenes and post on the RMB.

His recent change to TWP after TSP, The Pacific, Lazarus, etc seems to confirm what was said previously by other players. Can a player who flitters to whatever region has a Delegacy ripe for the taking truly call themselves a regionalist when it suits them? Does that type of player create anything that is sustainable in terms of activity for a long period of time, or do they simply leave it for others to pick up the pieces when they grow tired of it?

OOCly, I serve myself. I'm not ashamed of that. I play this game to entertain myself not out of an altruistic commitment to bettering online communities. Why would I?

Is it opportunism? Absolutely. But for what? I see opportunities for fun.

My idea of fun, however, involves the politics of game-created regions and bettering communities as a project. I like to go to large regions where there is a void to be filled because I know that I can make the game more fun for myself, and for others, in that role. I'm one of the best at it. And I know that there aren't a lot of players who do what I do, and that someone needs to do it. The larger the region, the more waves I can make. People don't go to a beach to surf where there aren't waves. When was the last time you even talked about TWP? We're all debating a 12-hr TWPAF publicity raid where no one was even ejected. And, though I strongly doubt the foundations of your assertions, why is it a bad thing if I come in, set a fire under everyone, and we have it burn for half a year or so? Is it anyone's obligation to make something that will be at its peak for years, and years longer than most players even play this game? People who play NS for as long as we do are not the majority. I think what I will do in TWP will last longer than half-a-year, mind you. But who is the world waiting on to appear from thin air and be a machine-posting regionalist in TWP? How many RL years have to pass? How many have passed? Why can't I just step in and make it happen now? I have the means and a plan.

I am a talented player and, when given authority, I put it to very good use. I commit to a region, I go all-out and focus only on that region -- that's how things happen. I am 100% dedicated to that region for as long as a year at minimum. By NS standards, maybe that is short, but as someone who is under 20 years of age, I spent 5% of the days of my life logging into Lazarus. Chairman Milograd made as many as fifty posts on a daily basis for four months, and as many as thirty per day after stepping down. It was the most active time in the region's 10-year history and, when his delegacy ended, he passed the torch. He stayed involved for nearly four more months before doing some IRL traveling. The PRL stayed more active after his delegacy than it had ever been in the region's history prior. It was not as active as it was during it, but it was more active and relevant under Kazmr and Funk than it ever was before. I would say it is a mistake to assume that Lazarus' best days are behind it, or that there are "pieces" to be picked up - regions have ups and downs. Lazarus' current "downs" are higher than even its ups used to be, on average.

[Pestarzt the Traveller]

It was once said that Milograd would be Emperor of the NPO one day, but now he is likely going to be Delegate of TWP. Which region could be next?

Wintermoot is correct that the constant changing players can be invigorating for a community and that many communities are very excited to have them for as long as it lasts... but it never seems to last. The activity created is not sustainable and will soon die out, and the community will return to the state it was in before (or it will advance to something else). Those players do add something to the game, certainly, but that type of opportunism doesn't really serve the region, but the individual themselves. The unsustainable activity created by those players, creates an even greater workload for those who succeed them and who wish to create a region of sustainable activity, growth and prosperity over a extended period of time.

The assumption that Milograd would take over the NPO was common for a time everywhere except the NPO. I've never seen a public suggestion of it by Krulltopia or anyone.

As for Wintermoot's comment, NS has lasted for eleven years and everything dies out. We shouldn't measure ourselves on how long we last. We build sandcastles on the public beach that is GCR's, and we shouldn't be discouraged to make those sandcastles because they won't last. Nothing ever lasts having stayed the same in this game, at least not without ups and downs. In game-created regions, players build sandcastles, go home, and have their sandcastle tended to by new people who come along the beach. When no one comes along, the tide (read: coups, inactivity, etc) ruins it, and people have to start anew. It's the cycle of NS and I try to play into it, rather than against it. I make the best of what a situation allows. It's good that I do and when I finally leave for good, someone else will see that and do what I do.

I strive to have something to log in for every day I play.

[Pestarzt the Traveller]

Finally, forgive me for the style of those posts. It is 4am here and, as I tire, my writing style becomes increasingly lazy and I murder metaphor.