7th Annual Defender Awards

[Eist]

Good grief. What a pathetic, misinformed, insincere and borderline depressing post, Unibot.

Hopefully people will avoid the all new UDL Awards like the plague.

[Cromarty]

Eist hoping something UDL does fails? Just another day in defending...

[Andacantra]

Perhaps a thought for the UDL: Do less stupid shit, then people won't have reason nor ammo in order to "attack" you in the first place. And mistakes happen, so don't react to them like "waaaaah go away criticism" when you're called out on it. Another thing to bear in mind is that perhaps people are being a bit silly, and maaaaayybe not taking it quite so seriously would be wise?

Apart from the inevitable drama, these should be good fun *huggles fratt and Wop*.

[Unibot III]

pathetic, misinformed, insincere and borderline depressing post

Excuse me? How am I insincere?

I do think giving defenders recognition is important because we put a lot of hard work into what we do and we're all likely to burn out without some recognition once and while.

I also would consider some members of TITO as being well-deserving of some the awards floating in my head. Ananke would be a much deserving recipient of such an ambassadorship award, I've always appreciated Ad Infintium's moral courage and Grub or AD would have the history for a life-time award -- Grub runs a defender-region which was a juggernaut in 2004 and still a juggernaut now, AD being one of the first to use organized move-times and open 10ki up to working with other defender-groups; I'd be an asshole not to recognize that they've done a lot for defenderism over the years just because my relations with them are, erm, how do we say it, *makes a PLOP noise with his mouth* not good. I don't know a lot about the other 10kers -- I know I am not a fan of you, but when I said that some of 10000 Islands deserved recognition, I did mean it, Eist.

Likewise, since 10ki doesn't recognize me as a defender even, I wouldn't think 10ki would attend such an award ceremony. I would still likely nominate a few members of TITO who I've admired and I'd suspect others would do so too.

[Vladisvok Destino]

Hopefully people will avoid the all new UDL Awards like the plague.

Good Sir, hope should be reserved for the unlikely or improbable, I shall therefore be adding this grievous waste of a precious resource to my list of grievances against your organisation.

With regards to the current awards...

*hangs up a "vote for Johz as Dirty Fenda of the Year" banner.*

[Northern Chittowa]

To be honest I think these Awards are just turning into a political bloodfest. TITO hijacking it to try to make UDL look bad, UDL snapping back and the usual suspects and FRA passive-aggressively ganging up against the UDL. When a lot of defenders in all of the organizations have worked quite hard to keep native communities safe this year, they deserve to be recognized and these Awards aren't giving them a proper backdrop to their recognition.

Since the FRA Administration has been fairly slow to respond to any changes, I think for next year I may construct a different Award ceremony with a different structure. Likely speaking, the Award ceremony will be more serious and have only awards for individuals and an organizational award for defending -- getting rid of the "invader" awards and "invasion" awards which are just being hijacked to use as a negative PR campaign against UDL, TITO and FRA.

The Award Ceremony shouldn't be this political, it should be a happy event to recognize good work from defenders. Which means, first, all the awards such be positive. Second, I'd like to see a more streamlined list of awards -- the FRA Awards have a lot of awards and a lot of them overlap and the people we'd suggest for each award are the same. Instead of areas of expertise look for qualities which are more general, perhaps awards for tenacity, leadership, innovation, ambassadorship (being a good ambassador for defenderism abroad -- someone who represents us well when the rest of us often act like squabbling children), integrity and being inspirational. I like these awards better because regardless of what an organizations does more of, defenses or liberations or detags, we can find tenacious defenders/liberators/detaggers or strong leaders, or innovators etc. But I also like this structure better because most people aren't going to fulfill most of the qualities, for example, some may be tenacious but not a strong ambassador (a hot-head with loose lips whose heart is the right place). On top of these awards, I would like to see the "Defender" award as the pearl of the awards maintained and a Lifetime Award.

Likewise, this Award structure would use some sort of run-off vote, instead of being first-past-the-post.

I know I'm biased, but here's my view on the goings on and the above.

These awards were started as a bit of fun and a way of bringing defenders together - i think it is premature to think of starting up a rival to them, just because there are elements you don't like.

I'm not sure if it was done in the run up to these awards, but normally there is a period before where people can propose changes to the design and makeup of the awards - these awards are quite different overall to when I started them, and they should evolve each year to encompass new ideas and to reflect the changing game.

If the award nominations are getting a bit heated, i agree the admins should step in to remind people to keep it out of the nomination threads, but there are a number of reasons as to why...you can't just blame one thing (aka, the awards themselves) for things getting highjacked.

Once these awards are over, then would be the time to raise concerns with the organisers and the general public and discuss ways in which they can be improved, not when they have just started.

[Unibot III]

Perhaps a thought for the UDL: Do less stupid shit, then people won't have reason nor ammo in order to "attack" you in the first place. And mistakes happen, so don't react to them like "waaaaah go away criticism" when you're called out on it. Another thing to bear in mind is that perhaps people are being a bit silly, and maaaaayybe not taking it quite so seriously would be wise?

For someone who continually asks for gameplay to become more peaceful and Utopian with rainbows and holding hands, I note the irony when it is UDL being criticized, you are easily one of the first people to ramp up the criticism and then criticize us for defending ourselves.

"Stupid shit" is an exaggeration, most 'scandals' we encounter are 1. Engineered PR traps by experienced propagandists like Biyah (believe it or not his coup on Osiris is not an isolated event in the history of Biyah misleading and turning governments against themselves) or 2. Insignificant things being spun to be incredibly significant by, lord and behold, opportunists (who do in fact exist in NationStates -- a shocker, I know).

Because of this we often don't respect your criticism, Abbey. We respect you, sure and your right to speak and comment. Sure.

But after, hearing mounting criticism about just about nothing of any significance from TITO, The Cat Burglars Sphere of Influence and the people we generally oppose on the battlefield ... we generally, just don't give a shit what you have to say. That's the truth. We're not reacting with "waaaah", we're reacting with: stop insulting my intelligence. Political Opportunism only works when the people listening are stupid enough to think that you're saying what you're saying because you actually think it is accurate, justified and without vested interest.

Perhaps yours and others criticism isn't meant for me, its meant for others. But we will, in fact, defend ourselves on the forums and criticize the significance, relevance and accuracy of your criticism. Likewise, we won't accept mistakes to be painted as "invasions" or accept that an award ceremony that should be about defenders getting recognition be hijacked into a "Let's Attack the UDL" session. We already have a place for the usual talking heads to criticize the UDL, a ceremony for recognizing defenders isn't it.

[Johz]

Hopefully people will avoid the all new UDL Awards like the plague.

Good Sir, hope should be reserved for the unlikely or improbable, I shall therefore be adding this grievous waste of a precious resource to my list of grievances against your organisation.

With regards to the current awards...

*hangs up a "vote for Johz as Dirty Fenda of the Year" banner.*

And when he says dirty, well...

[Jahmurai]

To be honest I think these Awards are just turning into a political bloodfest. TITO hijacking it to try to make UDL look bad, UDL snapping back and the usual suspects and FRA passive-aggressively ganging up against the UDL.,When a lot of defenders in all of the organizations have worked quite hard to keep native communities safe this year,they deserve to be recognized and these Awards aren't giving them a proper backdrop to their recognition.

So you want to give everyone a trophy? Wouldn't it just motivate old and new players to strife for these awards, since they are only given once a year (means EXTRA motivation). I thought recognition was always given after EVERY update for example : a well done, or good job... BUt those awards are an extra, an extra motivation, which cant be taken away... BTW in paragraph 2 of your speech, you say you want to organise a ceremony as well and give prizes to individuals... Which side do you choose, cause there is a contradiction in your "opinion" ? (marked red)

Since the FRA Administration has been fairly slow to respond to any changes, I think for next year I may construct a different Award ceremony with a different structure. Likely speaking, the Award ceremony will be more serious and have only awards for individuals and an organizational award for defending -- getting rid of the "invader" awards and "invasion" awards which are just being hijacked to use as a negative PR campaign against UDL, TITO and FRA.

Good luck with that... I think the FRA is beside its (great) defending also a provider of fun and amusement in the "NS atmosphere" like the defender awards a well as for example the FRAvision ( ).
I do not believe that the FRA is slow on changes, and i dont think it needs much changes : awesome trophy, awesome system in voting nominating, and an awesome award ceremony afterwards... But yeah go and try make an award ceremony which is more "serious". Go and make those awards more boring.

The Award Ceremony shouldn't be this political, it should be a happy event to recognize good work from defenders. Which means, first, all the awards such be positive. Second, I'd like to see a more streamlined list of awards -- the FRA Awards have a lot of awards and a lot of them overlap and the people we'd suggest for each award are the same. Instead of areas of expertise look for qualities which are more general, perhaps awards for tenacity, leadership, innovation, ambassadorship (being a good ambassador for defenderism abroad -- someone who represents us well when the rest of us often act like squabbling children), integrity and being inspirational. I like these awards better because regardless of what an organizations does more of, defenses or liberations or detags, we can find tenacious defenders/liberators/detaggers or strong leaders, or innovators etc. But I also like this structure better because most people aren't going to fulfill most of the qualities, for example, some may be tenacious but not a strong ambassador (a hot-head with loose lips whose heart is the right place). On top of these awards, I would like to see the "Defender" award as the pearl of the awards maintained and a Lifetime Award.

You keep sayin the awards should be for everyone, and you keep saying that the awards should nominate/recognize individuals, PLEASE pick 1 of the 2. I think the sections in the defender awards organised by the FRA are NOT "similiar" to each other (best quotes, worst invaders (which is funny, and i dont mind the invaders doing the same thing with the defenders its FUN and HILARIOUS), the best defenders, the newlings... etc etc etc and all those topics are well organised by the FRA administartion. (duh) (= marked green)

let me guess 3 times of who you want to have that position (blue)

I want to ask to the FRA administration to keep organising those awards, since they are fun, hilarious, exciting and EPIC, even when some want to arrange their own...


Anyway, thanx for your opinion, but i think this topic was made by wopruthien to announce that the awards were comming, not to start a fight and than sneak out of it, leaving a mess behind(BOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGG and so passé, we are no little children) while it should be a joyful time

[Lyanna Stark]

I disagree with starting new awards--these are the Defender Awards, not the FRA Awards, but agree with the idea that this should be -positive- stuff that unites defenderism (and gets some invader snark and votes in there too) instead of just political snark. We get enough of that..hrm..everywhere else. Ravania, Sovreignry, Frattastan, Wordy, etc would all be badass defenders whatever organization they're from.

NK noted that these awards were started as a way to bring defenders together. In the past I've seen a lot more raider-defender snark in the awards but this year just seems to actually be defender-defender snark--which really is a reflection of defender relations these days, but it's odd that this longstanding defender uniting activity is getting so snarky and "partisan".

But yeah I just basically agree with Northern Chittowa on everything else. NC's usually pretty damn reasonable anyways.

[Unibot III]

let me guess 3 times of who you want to have that position (blue)

That's a difficult question because a lot of times I believe the people who try to sound reasonable, aren't reasonable at all -- they just use the sememblance of reasonableness for rhetorical effect. Although they're not always correct or mature, I've found Johz, Ravania, Goobergunchia and Frattastan as defenders to be calm voices of reason in heated debates -- I participate in too much mudslinging to ever be considered a mature debater.

Out of neutral commentators, I have a lot of respect for A Mean Old Man -- who can definitely mudsling with the best of them, but also often offers cogent and balanced commentary. I also like some Europeian commentators (CSP, Skizzy Grey, Anumia, Lethen), when they're not saying something out of opportunism, they can offer fairly comprehensive and balanced commentary and I appreciate that they often don't feel the need to play coy in political dialogue.

[Jahmurai]

I participate in too much mudslinging to ever be considered a mature debater.

Wasnt thinking about you... (double )

After searching a long time, i keep overreading the "political arguments" in the current fra awards... Its what you make of it I think... I dont see any conspiracies/political backstabbing and blablabla in those topics....

You made this now political by stating your opinion... (which I highly encourage, but perhaps this was not the right topic to place it.)

[Johz]

I participate in too much mudslinging to ever be considered a mature debater.

Wasnt thinking about you... (double )

Then tell us! I mean, I'd like to think I'm quite good at amature mind-reading, but this is stretching me somewhat. Wordy? Fratt? Earth? Am I going to have to name every defender I know to get this? Can we play guess the card instead? That's just a 1/52 chance, I might have a chance...

[Jahmurai]

Frankly I dont have to have anyone in mind... I just wanted to see if Unibot was mentioning himself after I wrote that
Sorry, should have asked permission to do this little experiment

[Wopruthien]

To be honest I think these Awards are just turning into a political bloodfest. TITO hijacking it to try to make UDL look bad, UDL snapping back and the usual suspects and FRA passive-aggressively ganging up against the UDL. When a lot of defenders in all of the organizations have worked quite hard to keep native communities safe this year, they deserve to be recognized and these Awards aren't giving them a proper backdrop to their recognition.

Passively aggressive? Because we don’t agree with some of your organisations decisions, if we agreed with everything you do and say we might as well just merge. We’ve made it clear we feel you made the wrong call in Osiris, while the order was given and subsequently after it. And we neither support nor encourage pre-emptive defending. On requests of information on the natives who requested support we received a muted response or the reply of ‘natives’. You are quite right you aren’t accountable to us so if you do not want to mention the natives involved then of course that is your prerogative. FRA for the most part has moved on. However, but since it happened so close to the awards it is likely going to be brought up as a nomination just because of the timing of the Awards most of the invasions earlier in the year are forgotten.

Since the FRA Administration has been fairly slow to respond to any changes, I think for next year I may construct a different Award ceremony with a different structure. Likely speaking, the Award ceremony will be more serious and have only awards for individuals and an organizational award for defending

Hmm slow to respond to changes, okay I’ll bite.
http://s7.zetaboards.com/FRA/topic/8618437/1/
Thread opened to discuss the 2012 6th Annual defender awards, which was later used from the 23rd March 2012 (page 4) to discuss the organisation and running of the awards ceremony for the up-coming year. I can link you to five further threads similar to this one, after every year of the awards, with a seventh to follow after these current awards. You are more than welcome to make any suggestion you feel are appropriate.

Defender Unity was suggested as a new edition which we were going to implement but after this year, it was felt no one including anyone from the FRA really deserved it, as we have all done our level best to destroy defender unity over the past year. This is partly why in the upcoming months I’ll be trying to put in place a number of initiatives for us to work more closely, but that’s for another day and another thread.

There was a further suggestion here: about renaming ‘The Defender of the Year Award’ to the Free4all/Ballotonia Award as well as a suggestion about Technological Advancements and Technique which will be addressed shortly. The Ballo suggestion apart from yourself was unanimously rejected.
The thread in question is open to anyone with an account and encouragement to post your views and suggestions was given, in our regional updates 13th September 2012 and 10th October 2012 (linked to UDL update for your convenience, but you can pick any region we have an embassy with and or the FRA forums themselves for further evidence). I also supplied the URL of the thread in question of each of the updates so as to make it easier for comment. There was ample time to make any suggestions you felt were needed.
As for the Technological Advancement Award, as noted here that a large breadth of candidates would be needed, however there is about one or two eligible for this award and competition between the candidates should be encouraged. As well as not many people really commenting or seeming keen on the award, apart from you and I, it was felt at least for this year it was probably best to leave it out. I might suggest for next Awards maybe a merging of the Dipes Award with the Technological Award with the demise of intelligence as an underused defender tactic but again I shall refrain until after the 7th Annual Defender Awards.

getting rid of the "invader" awards and "invasion" awards which are just being hijacked to use as a negative PR campaign against UDL, TITO and FRA.

I cannot really think of any poor, bad or notable failed invasion attempts in the past year, (other than Anarchy which I have nominated but has yet to be seconded) partly because raiders have upped their game and partly because nothing really has stuck as a significant raider fail in 2012. It is likely therefore, as has happened presently, the award will be used, using the 2010(5th Defender Awards) precedence, for political one-up-manship between the organisations.

Wordy has already suggested that we change the name of Worst Invasion Award to the WTF award, or maybe the ‘Double-Take Award’ for perceived blunders, which might be a better name for it next year.

The Award Ceremony shouldn't be this political, it should be a happy event to recognize good work from defenders. Which means, first, all the awards such be positive. Second, I'd like to see a more streamlined list of awards – the FRA Awards Defender Awards have a lot of awards and a lot of them overlap and the people we'd suggest for each award are the same. Instead of areas of expertise look for qualities which are more general, perhaps awards for tenacity, leadership, innovation, ambassadorship (being a good ambassador for defenderism abroad -- someone who represents us well when the rest of us often act like squabbling children), integrity and being inspirational.

You are more than welcome to offer your suggestions when the thread is made, seems a little premature to be announcing a new award for next year, considering we are only eleven days into 2013. Hell if you were really that keen I’m sure you could offer up a rival awards ceremony this year. That being said I look forward to you and anyone else’s suggestions at the end of the awards on how to improve and your feedback is often taken on board. Since the first Awards, three awards have been dropped, two have since been renamed and two new awards have been added taking on board other nations suggestions.

As a side note about your political comment I feel that is the nature of defending this year. You are pushed into three camps TITO, UDL and to a much lesser extent FRA. Each of those organisations has a strong identification with each of their respective organisations which can only be commended, yet with almost the three groups at each other’s throats it will likely turn into a political nightmare, which we are doing our best to manage. That is why the Awards Banter thread is opened and we will from here on in, be strictly enforcing nominations stay on topic and used for nominations only. If you have a comment to make use the Awards Banter thread, if it appears players cannot stick to this we will be forced to go down Mod preview which I am sure no-one wants to see.

I like these awards better because regardless of what an organizations does more of, defenses or liberations or detags, we can find tenacious defenders/liberators/detaggers or strong leaders, or innovators etc. But I also like this structure better because most people aren't going to fulfill most of the qualities, for example, some may be tenacious but not a strong ambassador (a hot-head with loose lips whose heart is the right place). On top of these awards, I would like to see the "Defender" award as the pearl of the awards maintained and a Lifetime Award.

Again feel free to suggest it or create your own awards, entirely up to you. FRA will still hold the ‘Defender Awards’ Annually for so long as we are active.

Likewise, this Award structure would use some sort of run-off vote, instead of being first-past-the-post.

As the Awards go on for so long anyway I feel this will only pre-long the Awards yet further. First-Past-the –post might not be the fairest system but it has served us well for the past six awards with hardly anyone bringing it up.

1. Engineered PR traps by experienced propagandists like Biyah (believe it or not his coup on Osiris is not an isolated event in the history of Biyah misleading and turning governments against themselves) or 2. Insignificant things being spun to be incredibly significant by, lord and behold, opportunists (who do in fact exist in NationStates -- a shocker, I know).

Sure I don’t need to tell you but that’s the nature of defending, raiders and certain players want us to mess up and look bad. Not that you’ll ever take advice from me, but best piece of advice I’d give rather than make a big song and dance about it, laugh it off enter the spirit of the Awards and take it on the chin. The FRA winning ‘The Worst Invasion Award’ 2010 for refounding the region Time and handing it to a Raider sleeper, which I would not exactly call an invasion would be a perfect example of this. We are human eventually we will fu*k up. Besides that the vote is anonymous so if you don’t agree with the nomination, vote something else in the ballot box.

[Unibot III]

There will be no changes to the format of the Awards, any suggestion from a UDLer is just that, a UDLer suggestion in an FRA Award Ceremony, with TITO to gang up against any UDL suggestion.

There is good reason to remove the "negative" Awards and retain only the positive Awards -- that removes a lot of the negativity going around. But will that happen? No. Because I'm suggesting it and this is a FRA run award ceremony with TITO to back you when UDL proposes something.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

The Cat Burglars Sphere of Influence

This is a whole new level of amazing

[Sichuan Pepper]

If a TITO nation is against an idea posted by a UDL member I imagine it is because they do not like the idea. Claims of a gang of TITO?
How many makes a gang? One? The only TITO member to have posted in the relevant thread was myself. One does not make a gang.

[Milograd]

I think it's a shame that, nowadays, some of us aren't even able to appreciate a lighthearted event like as this one.

EDIT:

The Cat Burglars Sphere of Influence

This is a whole new level of amazing

What? Are you ignorant of the vast international CB conspiracy?!

How many makes a gang?

A proper gang has at least four members.

[Cerberion]

I used to enjoy the defender awards. Never voted but always looked forward to the results.

From this thread I can only assume we're going for a telenovela theme this year. I grow weary of watching the usual characters climbing on their soap box to proclaim their incredible wisdom and to wax lyrical on just how desperately ignorant the rest of the gameplay community is.
For once could we just focus on the nominations, and let the damn votes fall where they will without getting into a pissing contest?

@FRA - thanks for hosting these, though I could sure as hell understand if you decided that it was no longer worth the effort.

[Bundabunda]

Well, that escalated quickly.

If this bickering continues, I think the Defender Awards may just be the "Meltdown of the year" come 2014.

[Vladisvok Destino]

Well, that escalated quickly.

If this bickering continues, I think the Defender Awards may just be the "Meltdown of the year" come 2014.

Pfft, I'm not waiting until next year: http://s7.zetaboards.com/FRA/single/?p= ... &t=8772601

[Weed]

Uni, this is normally the kind of advice I'd TG you, but I feel like posting it here for others.

I think the problem isn't the award ceremony itself, it is the community of defenders as a whole. Yes, it is fractured dramatically. That fracture may show in these proceedings, sure, but that is the communities fault not the ceremony. Splitting the ceremonies only serves to worsen the divide, not bring anyone together. I'd personally like to see UDL quietly sit through these ceremonies, including any knocks or dings from the others, in the spirit of togetherness. If that's not possible, it'd be better to sit it out than split.

And unless your first post was in response to something said somewhere else, I can't see where you were coming from either. TITO hadn't done anything to merit that response yet, that I'd heard of.

[/personalopinion]

[Wopruthien]

There will be no changes to the format of the Awards, any suggestion from a UDLer is just that, a UDLer suggestion in an FRA Award Ceremony, with TITO to gang up against any UDL suggestion.

There is good reason to remove the "negative" Awards and retain only the positive Awards -- that removes a lot of the negativity going around. But will that happen? No. Because I'm suggesting it and this is a FRA run award ceremony with TITO to back you when UDL proposes something.

Again I'd appreciate if you at least use the correct terminology. The internal FRA Awards1 will be taking place once the 'Defender Awards' are completed, you are of course welcome to make any suggestions on the format of the FRA Awards, but you are quite correct, any suggestion from an UDLer and or a member of TITO, is just that and will probably not be taken into account when altering the format for deciding the most successful FRA Ranger of 2013.

If of course you are referring to the Defender Awards then every suggestion will be taken on a case by case basis regardless of who proposes whether that be an UDLer, TITO member, FRA member or hell a Royal Defense Network. If a suggestion is valued, popular and is agreed by the majority of defenders, including TITO/UDL it'll likely be implemented. If everyone is against a suggestion as I've already alluded to with your previous suggestion (Ballotonia Award), it is not going to be put forward in the final awards.

The Awards were designed to unite the fractured unity of defending after the demise of RLA/ADN and again they can be used for the same purpose in the current political environment. Even Govindia2 is allowed to participate in these awards putting aside political and personal problems to celebrate the success and failures of the year.

I've already explained and given examples of when awards have changed, been renamed and or altered, Wordy has already stated that she does not make up a 'gang' and barring one silly nomination; from Mahaj to nominate every UDLer as 'The Defender of the Year' and the occasional snarky remark which can only be expected given the current state of defending, the awards have been quite positive and fun. TITO have at least tried to nominate and second UDL members who they felt worthy of the award, as have some UDLers nominated TITO which can only be for the betterment of us all.

You seem intent on making these awards a failure and or find ways in which the FRA is running them poorly to the point where you are setting up your own awards next year. Again this is your prerogative, we've tried to make the awards as positive and fun as we can, and I've offered ways, multiple times for you and others to offer your suggestions on improvement. No suggestions have been forth-coming, until this very thread which you are using to hamper the awards, as well as ammunition to say we are slow to react or unwilling to listen and make changes to the Awards. Using this as justification as a political platform to announce your own UDL awards.

If they are so poorly run and badly formatted, my only advice now would be, do not participate, for this year at least the format will remain as it is too late to change now. However, no one is forcing you or the rest of UDL to get involved. I'd be sorry to see one of the main Organisations unwilling to involve themselves in the awards, but as stated I fail to see what more we can do, barring conform and wax-lyrical on your every suggestion to the exclusion of all others and interested parties.

Again I'll repeat myself, each and every suggestion, as stated in this post and my previous post is considered on a case by case basis regardless of political defender allegiance.

1. Every year following the completion of the Defender Awards the FRA holds an in-house awards for the Ranger who has achieved the most in the year. No other outside defender is considered for the award as it is designed for the FRA and rewards the FRA rangers

2. He is allowed to contribute with nominations and voting, but PM ability is removed and any posts he makes are closely monitored

[Belschaft]

The Cat Burglars Sphere of Influence

This is a whole new level of amazing

We have a sphere of influence?