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16,999 vs. 1: The DCM

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Do you think Galiantus knows how to fight the WA? Are you Anti-WA?

Poll ended at Tue May 08, 2012 6:57 pm

He's crazy. I love the WA.
33
29%
He's crazy, but I don't really care about the WA.
23
20%
He's crazy. The WA is powerful and evil.
5
4%
Don't know, but I hop the WA does not fall.
4
4%
Don't know, don't care.
15
13%
Don't know, but I hope the WA falls.
5
4%
Yes. I hope the WA takes action against The DCM and crushes it before it gets out of hand.
5
4%
Yes, but I don't really care.
2
2%
Yes!! The WA shall fall!
8
7%
My opinion comes nowhere close to any of these statements.
14
12%
 
Total votes : 114

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Confederation of American States
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Ex-Nation

Postby Confederation of American States » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:04 pm

Galiantus wrote:
The Corparation wrote:You don't like it, start your own new region. Nobody is forcing you to join a founderless region.


Really? This still violates national soverignty! The WA is obligating players to either stay out of founderless regions or join the WA. Neither of which is a good option. Players should be able to choose which region they want to be a part of without ever having to deal with the WA.


+1 sounds like a violation of national sovereignty to me. Pretty funny that its modeled after the UN which violates sovereignty on a daily basis.

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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:05 pm

For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.

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Schrattal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Schrattal » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Galiantus wrote:
The Corparation wrote:You don't like it, start your own new region. Nobody is forcing you to join a founderless region.


Really? This still violates national soverignty! The WA is obligating players to either stay out of founderless regions or join the WA. Neither of which is a good option. Players should be able to choose which region they want to be a part of without ever having to deal with the WA.


No, it isn't. This "requirement" is an artefact of game mechanics, and the argument belies an internal inconsistency with your own early argument, that invasions would not be possible without the ability of the regional delegate to exercise those very same abilities. The fact that a region is more vulnerable without a founder than with a founder would not be solved by the WA disappearing, except that, under those circumstances, invasion would not be possible either.

For some reason, I have this image of yourself having this as your central issue, as the one thing that really gets under your skin on a day to day basis. Shameless plug: if WA interference is bothering you, continue joining the Organization of Consociational States. One Nation, one Vote.

On the other hand, if your argument here is NatSov... I would advise against joining the WA at all.
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Fischistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:20 pm

Galiantus wrote:
The Corparation wrote:You don't like it, start your own new region. Nobody is forcing you to join a founderless region.


Really? This still violates national soverignty! The WA is obligating players to either stay out of founderless regions or join the WA. Neither of which is a good option. Players should be able to choose which region they want to be a part of without ever having to deal with the WA.

No, the WA gives power to those in founderless regions. It provides a way for people to change their WFE instead of them sitting around in a dead region.
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Galiantus
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Postby Galiantus » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:43 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Galiantus wrote:
Really? This still violates national soverignty! The WA is obligating players to either stay out of founderless regions or join the WA. Neither of which is a good option. Players should be able to choose which region they want to be a part of without ever having to deal with the WA.

No, the WA gives power to those in founderless regions. It provides a way for people to change their WFE instead of them sitting around in a dead region.


Not really. Just look at Catholic:

They were invaded, held for a week, and then liberated. What are they doing now that they are liberated? They are in the process of moving their community to Catholics. I think they no longer consider the WA powerful enough to protect them, and they find it easier to re-instate a founder than to stay involved with the WA.

The truth is the WA is slow, unefficient, and all but useless in protecting founderless regions. What about the dozens of regions that are invaded daily? Even if the WA was acting at full capacity, only one resolution could be passed every four days. In that time, countless regions can be invaded, and many more will just continue to be held in captivity, or will be burned down. SC liberations do almost no good.
Last edited by Galiantus on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last objected by The World Assembly on Wednesday, August 1, 2012, objected 400 times in total.
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Fischistan
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Postby Fischistan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:21 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Fischistan wrote:No, the WA gives power to those in founderless regions. It provides a way for people to change their WFE instead of them sitting around in a dead region.


Not really. Just look at Catholic:

They were invaded, held for a week, and then liberated. What are they doing now that they are liberated? They are in the process of moving their community to Catholics. I think they no longer consider the WA powerful enough to protect them, and they find it easier to re-instate a founder than to stay involved with the WA.

The truth is the WA is slow, unefficient, and all but useless in protecting founderless regions. What about the dozens of regions that are invaded daily? Even if the WA was acting at full capacity, only one resolution could be passed every four days. In that time, countless regions can be invaded, and many more will just continue to be held in captivity, or will be burned down. SC liberations do almost no good.

Ask any of the gameplayers about how the WA saved Feudal Japan's ass several years ago.
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Galiantus
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Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:39 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Galiantus wrote:
Not really. Just look at Catholic:

They were invaded, held for a week, and then liberated. What are they doing now that they are liberated? They are in the process of moving their community to Catholics. I think they no longer consider the WA powerful enough to protect them, and they find it easier to re-instate a founder than to stay involved with the WA.

The truth is the WA is slow, unefficient, and all but useless in protecting founderless regions. What about the dozens of regions that are invaded daily? Even if the WA was acting at full capacity, only one resolution could be passed every four days. In that time, countless regions can be invaded, and many more will just continue to be held in captivity, or will be burned down. SC liberations do almost no good.

Ask any of the gameplayers about how the WA saved Feudal Japan's ass several years ago.


And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.
Last objected by The World Assembly on Wednesday, August 1, 2012, objected 400 times in total.
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Jagalonia
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Founded: Jun 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagalonia » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:52 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.

*Gets mental image in head.*
:rofl:

Seriously, though, Galiantus, your math is WAY off...
And if you're going to try make each of your minions a delegate of a large region...Well...Good luck...You'll definately need it.
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The UK in Exile
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Postby The UK in Exile » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:58 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Fischistan wrote:Ask any of the gameplayers about how the WA saved Feudal Japan's ass several years ago.


And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.


so your assertion is that the WA needs to do more to help protect regions and the best way to it is... to destroy the WA...? :eyebrow:

presumably after you declare your self the topsy-turvy lord of misrule
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Fischistan
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Postby Fischistan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:34 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Fischistan wrote:Ask any of the gameplayers about how the WA saved Feudal Japan's ass several years ago.


And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.
There have been many regions that have been invaded without help. There have been some who have had help. Do you really want to put an end to all raiding and defending?
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Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
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SunRawr
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Postby SunRawr » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:38 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Galiantus wrote:
And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.
There have been many regions that have been invaded without help. There have been some who have had help. Do you really want to put an end to all raiding and defending?

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reasonable answer.

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Spartzerium
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Postby Spartzerium » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:39 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Fischistan wrote:Ask any of the gameplayers about how the WA saved Feudal Japan's ass several years ago.


And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.

It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.
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Galiantus
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Postby Galiantus » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Spartzerium wrote:
Galiantus wrote:
And how many regions have been invaded without recieving help from the WA since then? Probably thousends.

It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.

Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.
Last objected by The World Assembly on Wednesday, August 1, 2012, objected 400 times in total.
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Astrolinium
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Postby Astrolinium » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:50 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Spartzerium wrote:It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.

Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.


That's because the WA doesn't have that power? And defenders can't operate without the WA?
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Spartzerium
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Postby Spartzerium » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:51 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Spartzerium wrote:It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.

Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.

Yes, because the WA was never intended to save regions. The closest you've got are Liberations, which allow defenders to save regions when otherwise impossible due to a secret password. It's not the WA's job to save regions.
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:17 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Spartzerium wrote:It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.

Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.

But that's not what the WA is for. At all. Except Liberations but that's only for locked regions and it only removes the password. And without the WA defenders couldn't operate.
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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Without the WA, Gameplay couldn't operate -- full stop. No invasions, no defenses.
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Fischistan
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Postby Fischistan » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:00 pm

Galiantus wrote:
Spartzerium wrote:It's up to the defenders to defend regions. Not the WA.

Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.

The WA isn't meant to defend regions.
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Wisconsin7
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Postby Wisconsin7 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:32 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Galiantus wrote:Exactly. Defenders are better at saving regions than the WA is. Always has, always will be.

The WA isn't meant to defend regions.

Which is the point that both of the above people were trying to make.
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Ginet
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Postby Ginet » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:21 pm

Goobergunchia wrote:Without the WA, Gameplay couldn't operate -- full stop. No invasions, no defenses.


And no elected regional leaders, for the people who think no invasions is a good thing.

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Fischistan
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Postby Fischistan » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Wisconsin7 wrote:
Fischistan wrote:The WA isn't meant to defend regions.

Which is the point that both of the above people were trying to make.

That's like saying "We should outlaw wipped cream because it doesn't create world peace." It's not meant to defend, it only does liberations.
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Wisconsin7
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Postby Wisconsin7 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:41 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Wisconsin7 wrote:Which is the point that both of the above people were trying to make.

That's like saying "We should outlaw wipped cream because it doesn't create world peace." It's not meant to defend, it only does liberations.

What I meant was, your reply said pretty much the same thing as the two before it. I agree, there's really nothing the WA can do to help defenders besides liberations.
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Galiantus
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Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:15 pm

You guys can continue talking no your own, but I have a forum to build, recruiting to do, and followers to organize. It also looks like fewer people are posting on this thread, so I'll just wrap up my thoughts.

I am very condfident in my plan, and I see no reason for it to fail. Most of the WA will probably be repealed and render the WA pointless. When enough players realize that the WA can no longer do anything the population of WA members will drop, giving me even more power over the WA and causing it to collapse even faster. After that the WA will only be relevant in invading and defending, and so few players will be a part of it that the WA will have to be changed or replaced by Max so my tactics against it no longer work. But that probably won't happen. What is most likely is that the WA will just be stopped for a few years, I'll claim victory and leave, and then my followers will get board and go find something else to do.

Even if I cannot completely stop the World Assembly, I know my strategy will have a larger effect than any other attempt on the WA/UN in NS history.

Once invaders learn my first tactic it will be near impossible for liberations to get passed, and TBR and TBH will be able to invade very large regions and hold them for months at a time. When the rest of NS figures out how the invaders are accomplishing so great feats the WA will implode. A new kind of raiding will emerge, and the WA will grind to a halt. Resolution Writers will be up in arms and will have to join with the defenders for the cause of passing legislation.

Then defenders will learn my second tactic and the WA will instantly become full of more spies, liars and consperitors than ever before, and looked down on by the rest of NS. I do not have any idea what will happen after that, but everyone will remember The DCM and how much grief it caused the WA.
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The Corparation
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Corparation » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:22 pm

Galiantus wrote:You guys can continue talking no your own, but I have a forum to build, recruiting to do, and followers to organize. It also looks like fewer people are posting on this thread, so I'll just wrap up my thoughts.

I am very condfident in my plan, and I see no reason for it to fail. Most of the WA will probably be repealed and render the WA pointless. When enough players realize that the WA can no longer do anything the population of WA members will drop, giving me even more power over the WA and causing it to collapse even faster. After that the WA will only be relevant in invading and defending, and so few players will be a part of it that the WA will have to be changed or replaced by Max so my tactics against it no longer work. But that probably won't happen. What is most likely is that the WA will just be stopped for a few years, I'll claim victory and leave, and then my followers will get board and go find something else to do.

Even if I cannot completely stop the World Assembly, I know my strategy will have a larger effect than any other attempt on the WA/UN in NS history.

Once invaders learn my first tactic it will be near impossible for liberations to get passed, and TBR and TBH will be able to invade very large regions and hold them for months at a time. When the rest of NS figures out how the invaders are accomplishing so great feats the WA will implode. A new kind of raiding will emerge, and the WA will grind to a halt. Resolution Writers will be up in arms and will have to join with the defenders for the cause of passing legislation.

Then defenders will learn my second tactic and the WA will instantly become full of more spies, liars and consperitors than ever before, and looked down on by the rest of NS. I do not have any idea what will happen after that, but everyone will remember The DCM and how much grief it caused the WA.

You do realize that this is almost exactly what every single AntiWA person has said since the game began. I also doubt that your approach is original at all. There is nothing you can do that would have a major effect. You can't get the thousands of votes needed to pass the repeals of the legislation and there is exactly zero ways for you to block something coming to vote.
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Holy Marsh
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Postby Holy Marsh » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:23 pm

So your basic plan is to make the game not fun for people? Got it.
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